Emergency braking

[caboose56]

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and tell us what constitutes "emergency braking" on a track??....

this is about riding the roads every day and braking under emergency conditions.....

Good luck with that front only trick.....the minute you try to turn your front wheel to miss the car you'll be down....bang!

Braking as hard as possible. The same thing that it means on the street.

If this is about riding on the street why did you use an example of steep offroad descents on a dirtbike?

Since you're replying to me I will assume we're staying on point with sport bikes, standards and sport tourers. Are you actually suggesting a mix of front and rear brake in an emergency? Are you suggesting that the rider brake significantly less than they could just in case they need to maneuver?

The time that they buy themselves by fully loading the front end under braking instead of a front/rear mix would allow them to ease off the brake to transfer some weight to the rear so they can turn.

Again.. physics. Your argument is flawed.

 

[fastar1]

Horsepucky - make it a habit and skill to know how to use your rear brake effectively and when to use the front sparingly.

I can't imagine the slightest benefit to this method, least of all when it comes to emergency braking.

What is it supposed to achieve exactly?

 

[dricked]

I've locked the rear brake to slide the bike sideways and then release it to miss a stopped car (totally my fault for going to fast but if I just went straight and held the front brake I would have slid on the oil patches and rear ended the car). Knowing how to use both front and rear brakes to controll your bike is extremely valuble. Emergency braking isn't always just coming to a stop as fast as possible, you may need to manouver while slowing down.

 

[Sushii]

I've locked the rear brake to slide the bike sideways and then release it to miss a stopped car (totally my fault for going to fast but if I just went straight and held the front brake I would have slid on the oil patches and rear ended the car). Knowing how to use both front and rear brakes to controll your bike is extremely valuble. Emergency braking isn't always just coming to a stop as fast as possible, you may need to manouver while slowing down.

In my opinion, the definition of Emergency braking is stopping ASAP.

Slowing down and swerving to avoid an object is something else.

 

[dricked]

Ok well in the situation I described, I was trying to come to a stop at a light with a car waiting at the light. Had I just gone straight and hit the brakes I would have hit the car. So when it became an emergency to stop without landing in the trunk of the car I had to re direct the bike without letting off the brake so I didn't enter an intersection with passing cars, seems pretty emergency like to me. I ended up stopped beside the car with about 3" between us, and a 5lb load in my pants.

 

[fastar1]

In my opinion, the definition of Emergency braking is stopping ASAP.

Slowing down and swerving to avoid an object is something else.

Yeah I agree, I'd call it an avoidance manoeuvre.

But my blanket statement regarding braking still applies, because braking over a slick patch or while turning makes it impossible to perform a stoppie, so in those circumstances the rear brake may play a role. However that starts to detract from an already complicated enough discussion by adding these scenarios that are quite uncommon and unique.

Besides, emergency avoidance isn't something that can readily be practiced on the street so even if the theory could be understood, I wouldn't expect most riders (including myself) to be able to benefit from it.

 

[Sushii]

and a 5lb load in my pants.

Balls of steel?

 

[Ikan]

...seems pretty emergency like to me. I ended up stopped beside the car with about 3" between us, and a 5lb load in my pants.

So it appears that the extra 5 lbs was a major contributor towards your need for a greater stopping distance! :lmao:
It may have made the situation a tad greasy too.
Maybe trying to keep the load to a minimum is an avoidance tactic worth persuing!

Just a lazy weekend thought!
I need a ride. Soon!

 

[Griffin]

Horsepucky - make it a habit and skill to know how to use your rear brake effectively and when to use the front sparingly.

If you are using your front sparingly you are NOT emergency braking.

If you want to stop hard, pound the front brake as hard as traction (or ABS) allows. Feel free to pound the rear as well but it does virtually nothing for you. There is no weight on the rear. It is EXTREMELY easy to lock the rear. Consider that when the rear wheel has no load, or is in the air, very small brake input will lock it up. IF you are experienced AND your rear wheel has some load on it AND you can spare the time in an EMERGENCY braking situation, you can bring the back end around due to locking the rear and not fall down.

What I worry about from all these posts is that newer riders with limited experience will not realize that when bad things happen in front of you there is a very limited amount of time to decide to maneuver or brake. If you brake, brake HARD and use your FRONT brake to the maximum of traction. Anything else results in disaster.

For those of you that want to discuss trail braking, braking in the dirt, drifting your motorcycle to avoid obstacles etc, that's cool. Just don't confuse the less well-informed that any of that has anything to do with emergency braking on the street.

 

[torontoZX6R]

Very well said Griffin

Damn, I do not look forward to the day when I need to test my front brakes to their limits

 

[Griffin]

Very well said Griffin

Damn, I do not look forward to the day when I need to test my front brakes to their limits

I can understand that.

I think another thing that riders should keep in mind is that there's basically two reasons you'll need to emergency brake and both are almost always preventable: something gets in front of you that wasn't there (car turning left, car coming out of a cross street, kid coming out from between parked SUV's, etc) or the thing in front of you stops faster than you can react.

In the first case, you can usually avoid these things by practicing good situational awareness. There are many cues that will indicate the probability of something appearing in front of you (the oncoming car is slowing approaching the intersection, their wheels start to cut to their left, residential street with closely parked cars and probability of kids playing, etc).

In the second case, increase your following distance to at least two seconds. The VAST majority of people I see on the roads follow with less than one second between the car in front. Riders are often the worst for this -I've seen them following at highway speeds with less than .25 seconds following distance). IF you are very quick (i.e. less than 30 with unimpaired reflexes) and you are paying keen attention, you may be able to react in as little as .75 seconds. If you are not <30 or are distracted for the slightest amount of time (check your speedo, glance at your GPS, check out the hot blonde in the sports car) you're lost at least .5 seconds. IF you are following at a two second interval you SHOULD be able to stop without hitting the person in front of you. If you're less than that, it doesn't matter how good your reflexes, how good your bike's brakes, how good and practiced you are at emergency braking - you ARE going to hit the car in front of you.

 

[Brian P]

^ +1

The best emergency-braking or emergency-avoidance maneuver is the one you don't have to do because you prevented the situation from occurring that could otherwise have warranted it ...

 

[ZX600]

I my goodness, people in here are talking so much **** about technical braking and so on, when the time comes, all you are going to do is brake as hard as you can, close your eyes and pray...well no time to pray so just say oh ****!

 

[fastar1]

 

[Natfx7]

My bike's rear wheel drum brake became smooth. However, the thickness is the same if I compare this dark smooth old drum brakes with the white new one that I purchased.

What is the name of the tough white material sticked to the drum brakes?

While riding if I apply rear brake without using front disk brake the rear wheel would slightly roll on unless I apply max pressure on the rear brakes by standing on it. Max braking comes from the front disk brakes. I tested by keeping the bike on center stand and applying the rear brakes and when I press the lever half way in, it appears to be rolling slow with a little pause and would stop with some jerks if I press it full way in.

Do I have to replace it with new one or use the old one until it totally looses its braking ablility ?

 

[sid_for_speed]

front brake all the way.....in RTI ,we tried this on cbr 125s...


I got curious and despite the instructions when his hand went up,I applied the rear brake only, going at 60kmph....locked up instantly...I crossed the imaginary line of death by about 300feet and had a long black mark on the road tht told every one what i did

 

[BNKN]

I can understand that.

I think another thing that riders should keep in mind is that there's basically two reasons you'll need to emergency brake and both are almost always preventable: something gets in front of you that wasn't there (car turning left, car coming out of a cross street, kid coming out from between parked SUV's, etc) or the thing in front of you stops faster than you can react.

In the first case, you can usually avoid these things by practicing good situational awareness. There are many cues that will indicate the probability of something appearing in front of you (the oncoming car is slowing approaching the intersection, their wheels start to cut to their left, residential street with closely parked cars and probability of kids playing, et

Good point. I see a lot of sporty types cresting blind hills at speed even with "Hidden Driveway" sign present. Skillz don't matter there, it's all down to luck.

Practice hard front braking, modulating, smooth but hard input.

 

[Natfx7]

Keeping the shoulders close to the tank while braking I escaped a fall when a f**** car made a light indicater to the right and madly turning to the left on my way. Don't believe lights and twist your throttle.

 

[taximan62]

The problem is the one that the ministry offers to get your M2 is so easy that as long as you don't lay it down you pass so essentially anyone that can ride around a few pylons hit the brakes and cough up $400 gets a shiny card that says M2.

As an instructor I agree the basic rider course is not overly difficult but some students find it very difficult. What most people forget is it is just that a basic rider course designed to give you the basic skills needed to ride a motorcycle. That does not mean after passing you know everything! My program has tried several times to offer an advanced training course but guess what, nobody sign up for them they don't want it.

I always tell my students that they need to think of the course as basic piano lessons. We teach you where all the keys are and the basic principles of playing the piano. Does this make you a Mozart and you will be playing a concert at Massey Hall, NO?? Now you understand how it works you need to practice and make yoursef better. Problem is most never practice the skills they are taught after the course is done all they wanted is that piece of paper to get the M2 and then they forget everything they learned.

How may of you actually go to empty parking lots and practice slow speed riding, emergency swerving and braking on your own machine. I would bet the number is very low. But when presented a situation where you need it because you don't practice it, you will fail when the situation presents itself!

 

[Mr.Azim]

^ I agree...... that is the main reason why I decided to quit being an instructor. The "I teach people to ride" nostalgia wore off, they didn't pay enough for the elements/8-10 hour days AND I didn't want to be associated with a "HE taught me how to ride!" idiot that I saw again and again and only shook my head in embarrassment.

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