FAST teaches two fingers
Emergency braking
- Thread starter cbcanada
- Start date
Riding schools not track schools.
Trouble comes if riders are not aware of how the bike responds and what the rear brake can do under those "less than ideal" situations . Reliance on the front brake on dry pavement does not take away or eliminate from the good practice of adding some rear brake.
Many bikes are linked for that very reason.
I'd also remove "significantly" from decreased traction as that can arise in a blink especially around stoplights or in light rain.
There are very few situations where ignoring the rear brake completely is EVER warranted - and I think it adds to bad habits to do so.
Who cares if it adds much under a particular situation....it's there to use and get used to, as stomping on it when you are not used to it brings a whole other load of nasties with it.
If you know how to feather it just below lock up and what effect it has, it becomes second nature to put in the "skills to call on" arsenal.
Even with ABS it has slow speed uses.
This is why i said its good to get a habit of doing that so that you don't even have to think about it. I think its better to be in a lower gear than a higher gear just incase you do emergency braking and the car behind you decides to plow through. You can either sit there like a sitting duck (stalled) or try to get out of the way by jumping the curb or hitting the car next to you. Either way, its better than getting squashed between two cars.
Any reasonably competent rider on a sport bike can brake hard enough to completely (or nearly) unload the rear tire.
True maximum braking effort (on a sport bike) comes with 100% front brake and 0% rear brake. This is simple physics.
So are you saying its better to use 100% front brake and 0% rear when emergency braking? Because that's what i have learned to do after 2 lowsides. I never ever touch the rear brake when i have to brake hard anymore, i just lack the skill to control the rear as i find it hard to focus on it when doing a hard brake. I use the rear brake when braking normally or slow turns though.
Yes that is exactly what I'm saying. This really only applies to sport bikes and some standard bikes and sport tourers in good conditions.
For a competent rider the maximum braking force in is a function of bike geometry. It has nothing to do with brake pad material or front tire compound.
caboose and griffin are correct, its simply physics, a rear tire in the air is not going to slow you down regardless of how fast it is turning. 250 kph for me on the back-straight at shannonville, glad they had the runoff.
As caboose said, 100% front, 0% rear, unless its very wet out. When your are braking hard, the rear is usually off the ground, or very close to it. Downshifting is useless if your rear wheel has no load on it. If your busy trying to downshift before braking, or thinking about it while braking, your not concentrating on the most important part, braking. If you don't have a slipper clutch and dump a gear in a hurry trying to down shift, its easy to lock the rear, since there is very little weight on it.
If you can: hard on the front brakes only, clutch in, downshift # of gears as needed, finish braking, blip (optional, depends on your speed/slipper clutch/preference), release clutch. If its a real emergency, you won't have time to think about this, it needs to be instinct. Worst case: hard on the front brakes only (assuming its not extremely wet, both brakes in the case of very wet, but this is rare), clutch in. Worry about the rest once the obstacle has been avoided.
I highly recommend any rider to go to a track day, especially new riders. You can ride at your own pace, its not a race. You get used to hard braking and oh ****** moments at your own comfortable pace. not when some idiot texting decides you should. Emergency braking response will becomes an instinct. IMO, you will learn more about your bike in a single track day than a year on the street.
Personally I'm full hand clutch (heavier clutch springs) and 2 finger brakes, much easier to modulate the brakes as your weight is shifting during the braking process than using a full hand, but this is all preference, there is no right or wrong. I pit with a former canadian superbike pro that's full hand braking with a touchy brembo MC.
As caboose said, 100% front, 0% rear, unless its very wet out. When your are braking hard, the rear is usually off the ground, or very close to it. Downshifting is useless if your rear wheel has no load on it. If your busy trying to downshift before braking, or thinking about it while braking, your not concentrating on the most important part, braking. If you don't have a slipper clutch and dump a gear in a hurry trying to down shift, its easy to lock the rear, since there is very little weight on it.
If you can: hard on the front brakes only, clutch in, downshift # of gears as needed, finish braking, blip (optional, depends on your speed/slipper clutch/preference), release clutch. If its a real emergency, you won't have time to think about this, it needs to be instinct. Worst case: hard on the front brakes only (assuming its not extremely wet, both brakes in the case of very wet, but this is rare), clutch in. Worry about the rest once the obstacle has been avoided.
I highly recommend any rider to go to a track day, especially new riders. You can ride at your own pace, its not a race. You get used to hard braking and oh ****** moments at your own comfortable pace. not when some idiot texting decides you should. Emergency braking response will becomes an instinct. IMO, you will learn more about your bike in a single track day than a year on the street.
Personally I'm full hand clutch (heavier clutch springs) and 2 finger brakes, much easier to modulate the brakes as your weight is shifting during the braking process than using a full hand, but this is all preference, there is no right or wrong. I pit with a former canadian superbike pro that's full hand braking with a touchy brembo MC.
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Maybe it's from 25 years of riding dirt but I always throw in a little rear break. If the rear starts chattering or slides I just get off it and straighten out. I know that on the street if it's hopping there is no stopping power coming from the back but it's just a habit. The worst crash I ever had on a dirtbike was because I grabbed a handful of front and no rear going into a corner that had standing water hidden by tall grass. Had to buy a new helmet after that one lol.
You guys should see the amount of flame i got for deciding to use front brakes only when EMERGENCY braking lol.
http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforu...ou-use-your-rear-brake-when-emergency-braking
The laws of physics are not subject to interpretation.
What I wrote is not a blanket statement, take it with a grain of salt.
Sorry the pic is small, but how much rear brake could The Ben use under these conditions?
Here's a valid blanket statement that addresses all different scenarios;
"In any circumstance where a bike is capable of doing a stoppie, the rear brake should not be used when emergency braking."
It's also a useful blanket statement because it applies to the vast majority of riders on this site, in 90% of our riding situations. Therefore it is useful even when not in an emergency, to brake with only the front brake to make it a habit.
When riding in slick conditions, or with a pillion, or on a cruiser, simply change braking style to add a bit of rear brake. In those circumstance a rider's style needs to change in many ways other than just braking style anyways, so it should already be elemental for the self-aware rider to change his riding style in those cases.
"In any circumstance where a bike is capable of doing a stoppie, the rear brake should not be used when emergency braking."
It's also a useful blanket statement because it applies to the vast majority of riders on this site, in 90% of our riding situations. Therefore it is useful even when not in an emergency, to brake with only the front brake to make it a habit.
When riding in slick conditions, or with a pillion, or on a cruiser, simply change braking style to add a bit of rear brake. In those circumstance a rider's style needs to change in many ways other than just braking style anyways, so it should already be elemental for the self-aware rider to change his riding style in those cases.
cbcanada
Banned
I been in here for a few months and noticed That there is people that come on this site just to grill others... Its probably genetic. They only seem to troll on threads that have nothing to do with riding and just dont have any respect for anyones opinion.
Oh well!
Here is a question to all the experinced riders and track guys chipping in on this thread. By the way thanks and awesome stuff.
When breaking hard and the rear wheel lifts up. at what point do you ease off the front brake?
Is it ideal to not lift the back wheel at all?
Rear should be hovering or almost hovering do not let off, just reduce the lever pressure slightly if the rear gets too high. The faster you are moving the easier it is to control.
cbcanada
Banned
What do you mean?
and tell us what constitutes "emergency braking" on a track??....
this is about riding the roads every day and braking under emergency conditions.....
Good luck with that front only trick.....the minute you try to turn your front wheel to miss the car you'll be down....bang!
••••
Horsepucky - make it a habit and skill to know how to use your rear brake effectively and when to use the front sparingly.
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I did the same instructor put both hands up so I hurled the bike sideways towards the instructor without falling. My whole group passed the test at Humber. I did notice the instructors were very experienced and cared a lot to point out some bad habits. Maybe passing just depends on which instructors you get.
Though my first mentality on a bike is not to stop but just crank the throttle. If you do have to perform emergency braking in that split second prepare for a possibility the bike might go down and how you'll try to reduce your injuries. (Tuck head in)
