Emergency braking

dricked said:
The problem is the one that the ministry offers to get your M2 is so easy that as long as you don't lay it down you pass so essentially anyone that can ride around a few pylons hit the brakes and cough up $400 gets a shiny card that says M2.
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Two people failed from my group without ever dropping the bike. Depends on where you go.
 
dricked said:
In an emergency situation your not going to be able to release the clutch between downshifts to take advantage of the engine braking but if you need to accelerate back out of the situation you'll be in a gear that will work. You should be able to apply brakes/shift down/hold your clutch in without increasing your breaking distance. When you slow down to come to a stop you should be down shifting not rocking the bike and banging on your shifter after your stopped.

Not all directed at you but to this whole thread. Seems alot of people need to go to a riding course not just the one to pass your liscence (which is too easy IMO).
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Edited for you.
 
dricked said:
Other than Durham college where else is it offered? The course can be done with one hand (other than stopping/starting of corse)
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Rider Training Institute - RTI
Humber College
Georgian College
Centennial College

Plus I'm sure there is a few more, few years ago seemed like every college campus had one
 
dricked said:
Other than Durham college where else is it offered? The course can be done with one hand (other than stopping/starting of corse)
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I took mine at Sheridan College and watched quite a few people wash out. Maybe it had to do with it raining the whole weekend, but we were given enough time to practice before the test that it shouldn't have been a deciding factor for anyone.
 
Loads of people can do the course, and do it well.

Whether or not they can demonstrate on demand (aka under pressure, being timed and under scrutiny) is an entirely different issue.
 
To answer the OP - 160kph or so. No drama, just slowed down hard and person that was cutting me off was avoided and I was back on the throttle.

I practice hard stopping every time I get on the bike. The fact mine has ABS is irrelevent - you still need to practice regularly to realize how hard you can stop and how hard your groin will go into the tank before you're able to lock your knees onto the tank.


cbcanada said:
Some people i talk to say dont even bother the down shifting and just focus on the braking...

Any thoughts?
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Consider this: Downshifting slows down your rear wheel. In a hard stop the vast majority of force is on the front wheel. Why would you complicate your stopping with worrying about downshifting? Emergency stopping involves grabbing as much brake as you can apply without falling down. Everything else (other than obstacle avoidance) is irrelevent.

Even in a car downshifting is not part of emergency stopping.

Sushii said:
Its fine but you should get in the habit of downshifting and and braking at the sametime.
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See above comment. For emergency stopping there is no reason to do so and good reasons not to. Concentrate on using the brakes. Forget the gears.

2live&ride said:
Next time you're in your car, without pushing the brakes, take the gear shifter from D to 3...
You'll have better understanding of the concept then.
I would personally downshift and use both brakes simultaneously for maximum braking power.
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Downshifting does diddly squat to reduce your speed if you are pounding your brakes. You are already getting maximum traction from the rubber on the ground. Having the engine trying to slow the wheels down as well is a waste of effort. The brakes are stopping the wheels far more effectively than anything you can do with the engine. You are more likely to upset your traction by dumping the clutch and locking the wheel, even if only momentarily. best to leave the clutch alone.

The only reason to worry about downshifting is so that you can be on the throttle again smoothly. If you're even considering this you are NOT emergency braking.

In my experience, riders seldom apply their brakes as hard as the bike is capable of handling. Or they lock the rear and fall down. I would think your reaction time would have to be pretty slow to allow yourself to go over the bars - once the back end starts to lift ease off the front a tad.
 
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You are more likely to upset your traction by dumping the clutch and locking the wheel, even if only momentarily. best to leave the clutch alone.
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Yup
Downshifting under stress may lock the back wheel - that's especially critical in the wet. You need the rear brake for directional stability...concentrate on that aspect which changes with road conditions ( as does the front braking - especially without ABS )

It's one aspect I love on the Burgman 650 - braking with both hands is far easier for control and you never ever are in the wrong gear.

There is way too much assumption in this thread of dry good pavement....that is often not the case.
 
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Just to follow up in my OP...

This happened to me in my rider training in a clsed circuit. It was my very first emergency braking And i didnt know you had to squeze so i just slammed the brake down. In hind sight it was an eye opener an a blessing in disguise it made me learn and away and respect the brakes.
 
Feathering the rear brake yanks the bike straight and you need to do that in gravel and other less than optimal conditions - even in slow speed turns feathering the rear brake sometimes is better than using engine braking.
Using the front brake in a slow speed maneuver with the front wheel turned can torque you over faster than you can blink.


The third technique is the proper use of the rear or controlling brake. With the motorcycle in the friction zone, keep your foot on the rear brake and feather it as the bike starts to move. By doing this you are making the motorcycle think it's going faster than it is. When you apply power and keep your foot on the rear brake, it keeps the motorcycle from falling over at low speeds which is where most people have a problem. I've never heard of anyone having problems balancing their motorcycle at 50 or 60mph. If you don't use these techniques at 5 or 10mph the motorcycle feels clumsy and wants to fall over on it's side. AVOID using the front brake at all costs when riding at parking lot speeds, as applying the front brake at 5 or 10mph with the handle bars turned even slightly, will pull you to the ground like a magnet. Of course, once above parking lot speeds, you must use the front brake as well as the rear brake, as 70% of your braking power comes from the front brake.
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http://www.ridemyown.com/articles/riding/BTB-headeyes.shtml

Some of the paved roads here can be 15-20% downhill grades and diving into a corner without using the rear brake in addition to the front is a recipe for a problem....if the front starts to slide ( as it did on some tar snakes on the Gillies) you have to come off the front brake entirely and the rear helps deal with the issue slowing you and bringing the bike more upright so the front regains traction.

On steep downhill gravel etc - rear brake is critical for keeping the bike pointed tho judicious use of front and engine braking all helps - the issue with engine braking is less control over the amount and your traction can break even though the clutch can aid you - not a good thing.

the-washout-147x300.jpg


Think about the physics here in this kind of steep downhill- your rear brake is critical for directional stability and your front wheel has to keep traction to pick its way over stones and ruts instead of sliding - so the front brake has to be very carefully applied. The rear both slows and keeps you headed straight.

So That's What ;)
 
Nixel said:
Two people failed from my group without ever dropping the bike. Depends on where you go.
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I was the only person to drop a bike at RTI all weekend but i still passed lmao and 5 other ppl in the group failed..
 
Griffin said:
best to leave the clutch alone.

The only reason to worry about downshifting is so that you can be on the throttle again smoothly. If you're even considering this you are NOT emergency braking.
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If you lock the rear and don't pull in the clutch you could stall the bike and have no controll of your arse end. Coming from a dirt backround I automatically start down shifting if I'm really hard on the brakes, it's become a natural reaction and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
 
At the track, I just don't use the back brake in hard braking and downshift as I go... don't blip the throttle between downshifts, either. Waste of energy. Apply rear brake to either tighten my line or to stop impromptu wheelies (needs improvement).
 
Two fingers on the front brake (learned that the hard way), pull in the clutch and pray. Concentrate on going stright, forget about downshifting you can do that when you are safely stopped. Practise, Practice, Practice emergency stopping from ALL speeds - 30 kph, 100 kph, 160 kph. ABS is great but you still need to practice. AND I still practice after 30+ years of motorcycling.
 
MacDoc said:
So That's What ;)
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In situations with significantly decreased traction, sure. On certain bikes on dry pavement there is no real benefit to using the rear brake.

Jayv said:
Why two fingers?
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On a lot of bikes its easy to overcome the front brake. Either locking the front or cartwheeling the bike. Using two fingers makes it less likely that you'll grab a fist full of brake and make a bad situation worse. Use two fingers and gradually load the front end. As weight transfers forward you can use more and more front brake.
 
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caboose483 said:
In situations with significantly decreased traction, sure. On certain bikes on dry pavement there is no real benefit to using the rear brake.



On a lot of bikes its easy to overcome the front brake. Either locking the front or cartwheeling the bike. Using two fingers makes it less likely that you'll grab a fist full of brake and make a bad situation worse. Use two fingers and gradually load the front end. As weight transfers forward you can use more and more front brake.
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All riding schools will teach four fingers.

Some guy called Rossi uses four as well.

I was just interested when he posted he learned the hard way about two fingers on the lever.
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