AllistonGT
Well-known member
So like Peel Region to Owen Sound? 148kms
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Elephant in the Covid room
- Thread starter Wingboy
- Start date
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Gotta do what we gotta do. It's been shown time and time again that people will travel outside their health region to leisure shop otherwise.
I just don't think that people outside a reasonable radius of the GTA right now should continue to get punished for the GTA being a hotspot. I totally get it that people in Chicken Scratch Ontario are upset that they can't even have outdoor patio dining or low capacity in store shopping when they have little to no rates of Covid in their area just because Toronto is a mess. That was the whole idea of the colour coded zones, but the flaw in that was the lack of buffers to discourage travel from a lockdown zone to one that's open.
Douggie has proven that he is completely unwilling to consider any kind of geo-restriction. It would be entirely reasonable in a flaming hotzone to say that you had to go to the closest grocery store, closest park etc. (or within x km). He refuses to do anything that would be so logical and is learning from JT and throwing around words with no meaning (colours where rules for colours change almost daily, emergency brake, lockdown, shutdown, essential activities only etc). Sound like you are doing something while trying to put as few obstacles as possible in front of people that want to continue with their daily lives unimpeded.
I believe that everyone has expressed their opinions here and it's starting to take a downward spiral. While the romper room is the place for these types of discussions and I appreciate that while we continue to deal with COVID, it's going to be a topic of discussion GTAM is going to start taking a bit of a harder line with this discussions. Any insults, calling someone dumb or even a calling of like-minded individuals dumb etc., will lock down the thread.
Again, healthy discussion is what we are here for. If you can't communicate your side without slinging insults, no matter how subtle then just stop participating in the thread please.
Again, healthy discussion is what we are here for. If you can't communicate your side without slinging insults, no matter how subtle then just stop participating in the thread please.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
So how about a full lockdown stay-at-home order and no driving in Peel (and any other poorly behaving community) for 4 weeks?
The 2 hour range on foot is now reduced to an 8km radius.
My point is that badly behaving communities should be paying a bigger price now. We have had time to learn, what I witnessed while driving thru Peel compared to driving through Markham tells me Peel behaviours are punishing everyone.
Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Collective punishment is something the Israelis practice against the Palestinians and the UN goes batshit crazy over that so I understand the issue here. However, we have a society here that mostly follows the rules but it only takes one building site/nail salon/long distance shopper/group of students/Randy f-ing Hillier to kick things off again.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Enforcement is the challenge. I’d close the roads that ring a troubled community to vehicular traffic. It wouldn’t take much to Close Mayfield, Winston Churchill, HWY 50 and the entrances to the 407, a dozen cop cars would do.
Leave it closed until the community gets themselves under control.
Sweet....140km to cottage from the house. Phew!
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Is locking down a bad community collective punishment? Seems to me locking down a province might be.
I see regional lockdowns as simple, straight forward public health action.
What do you think the business owner in Kirkland Lake is thinking right now? He may have yet to hear or know anyone with Covid, but he’s closed.
I agree with you. I just can’t see an alternative if people refuse to stay put.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
The alternative is to make them stay put. Go back to colour zones, if a zone gets out of control, fill the moat with crocodiles.
Just to get out we took a back roads drive to Lindsay from TO when things were opened. How far does a non poser biker ride?
Have coloured open / closed zones but no travel more than X km from home and only one person goes shopping at a time.
It works both ways as well. I can't go from west TO to Elmira for a shoefly pie and they can't come to TO.
It will takes weeks to prepare the paperwork, ID cards etc. By that time many hope the counts will be down and the prep money will be seen as wasted, "the squandering government." If the count isn't down we start the paperwork weeks and deaths later and the cry is "Why didn't they act sooner"
The big problem is that Ford and Trudeau have IMO lost all credibility and harsh measures will result in skepticism and rejection.
How does it get enforced? Even if the police chiefs didn't reject the idea they wouldn't likely have the resources.
Fines / punishment would have to be brutal. The higher the fine the fewer there are that would risk a trip. That concentrates the hunt which makes it even more effective.
Call in the military and OMG it's Nazism.
I am not optimistic on an early resolution to this.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Make the fines brutal. Let the offenders pick up more of the tab. How about a 3 day roadside suspension?
The three day suspension is tempting but then it's subject to the tow / storage / kickback industry which bothers me. I would prefer a penalty that would avoid any perception of wrongful action outside of the court system.
There is a private lake at Disneyworld but don't try landing your amphibian or float plane there. The landing can't be stopped but they will stop you from taking off again. You have to bring in a crew to disassemble the plane and truck out the pieces. That attitude beats the Mickey Mouse procedures we have here.
I'm not into IT or computer systems but would be looking at license plate scanners to single out non resident vehicles. Residents barely have to slow down. Out of towners are stopped and questioned. There would be early signage, "Residents Only" not unlike Dover on the 13th. With a valid reason the car gets a registered card to be placed on the dash to simplify other stops, not unlike pay and display. Date and license number on card and good for X days, hours etc.
I don't know the ramifications but if a driver admitted guilt and immediately paid a $500 fine by CC they would be allowed to make a U turn and go home. The violation would be recorded and used against the driver if they tried it again.
If the driver wants to take his chances in court the fine will be double. He still makes the U turn and goes home but must report to the police station nearest his home within a few hours or a second charge is laid for not following instructions.
The above would work better for small towns. Hopefully few country folk would want to visit the locked down big cities where it would be harder to enforce.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I don't think the impoundment is necessary. Cop to driver, "Driver, go straight home - at midnight your license will be suspended for 3 days. After that you can go to Service Ontario, pay the $285 reinstatement fee and get your license back".
I still don't like punishment without court oversight. Should be able to have call in court within 72 hours where you explain to a jp what you were doing. If JP thinks your answer is no good, your choice is big fine or license suspension, you pick.
POWERMAN
Well-known member
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