Electric Truck - Anyone have a Ford Lightning or Pre Order a Silverado EV?

[daught]

I spotted 72 mph on the speedometer in Hoovie's video. SLOW DOWN. Aero is killer when towing.

I noticed that the speedometer actually reached 73 mph, while claiming not to feel the load. Not hearing the engine revving hides how hard the engine is working. He might be driving the limit, but it's pretty high at 70. How much more gas would a gas-powered f150 take when towing like that?

RE charging. This whole EV thing started with small, efficient cars, which generally north North America, forgot how efficient they can be. Level 1 charging was adequate, and the grid would not have had a problem dealing with the added load. Then the cybertruck, rivian, hummer ev(wtf) and the big 3 trucks went the EV direction. Of course, this brings big issues. Distribution might not keep up with mass adoption of these considerably less energy-efficient vehicles. They are also gulping way more raw materials. North America has too much of an addiction to wasting energy with big rigs.

 

[GreyGhost]

As for OP's desire to save gas money, a friend has an F150 hybrid. He went to montreal last weekend. $140 to fill here, drove to montreal, drove around a bit on the weekend and drove almost two hours back this way before putting in another $140. Got home with 500 km left on the guess-o-meter. That's pretty damn good. An EV on that trip would have introduced some suck (and probably not saved much money on that trick as you would need to pay the premium for fast charge a few times). The worse your current vehicle is on fuel and the further you drive, the easier it is to make huge improvements in cost. In his case, it would be really hard to justify full-electric financially.

 

[OntFF]

The Eaton unit with wifi, metering etc (top of the line) is about 4200 usd - about 6k CAD.

Unless the house was gas everything, a 50a continuous load (which is what an EV charger counts as) will put most 100a services over the allowed utilization. Will it work, especially if you limit the charge rate? Probably... but by the book, no beuno.

The economics of EV's don't hold up to scrutiny, IMO - particularly once road taxes are figured out, and subsidies removed...

 

[GreyGhost]

The Eaton unit with wifi, metering etc (top of the line) is about 4200 usd - about 6k CAD.

Unless the house was gas everything, a 50a continuous load (which is what an EV charger counts as) will put most 100a services over the allowed utilization. Will it work, especially if you limit the charge rate? Probably... but by the book, no beuno.

The economics of EV's don't hold up to scrutiny, IMO - particularly once road taxes are figured out, and subsidies removed...

Assuming reasonable road taxes are applied and you make smart economic decisions (eg $1000 charger instead a $6000 charger that is fancier but does almost nothing useful as the cars are already wifi/charge scheduling/monitor charge current, etc) and charge off-peak, I am still in the camp of EV is far cheaper per km for most people. If you buy the $140K RST, of course economics will suck, if you buy a 50K electric vehicle and are a typical user with half a brain, you will be miles ahead with electric. For some people (eg. people pulling trailers long distances every day, people with no ability to charge at home, etc), the economics and utility may never favor EV.

 

[Scuba Steve]

The Eaton unit with wifi, metering etc (top of the line) is about 4200 usd - about 6k CAD.

Unless the house was gas everything, a 50a continuous load (which is what an EV charger counts as) will put most 100a services over the allowed utilization. Will it work, especially if you limit the charge rate? Probably... but by the book, no beuno.

The economics of EV's don't hold up to scrutiny, IMO - particularly once road taxes are figured out, and subsidies removed...

I haven't done the math but I am sure we are far ahead currently at 100000 k on the volt maintenance has been $500 so far and probably 5 tanks of gas since new. Level 2 charger was $200 and I already had a 220 plug for it. Charging is all off peak. Oil is also heavy on subsides so there is that.

Sent from the future

 

[nobbie48]

Installing a Level 2 charger at home can get expensive fast... The charger itself can be 2-7 grand depending on the specific make/model and options... Install is very specific to the home/layout - a few hundred bucks if your panel is in the garage; to 10's of thousands if the panel is at the other end of a finished basement.

The real killer is the service upgrade cost - a level 2 charger pretty much requires a 200A service; and if your existing service needs upgraded, that can add up fast. Aerial isn't too bad, but if you have an underground service, and need trenching; 10k's a good starting place, and it can go up from there.

There's a whole separate discussion about the grid-level capacity - is there enough generation (mostly yes), enough transmission (mostly yes), and local distribution (varies widely) - as well; but that's a larger issue.

I'm no stranger to electrical rooms and the addition of hundreds of charging stations would burst the seams. Then there is the grid.

 

[GreyGhost]

I'm no stranger to electrical rooms and the addition of hundreds of charging stations would burst the seams. Then there is the grid.

Condos are a huge issue for this. Single family homes far less so. Many municipalities outside of ontario have customers charge vehicles off a separate electric meter. That would be a reasonably simple modification if a utility was worried about charging demand. Hell, they could mandate this with a requirement that utility had control and could shut off that meter if required to regulate demand. In exchange, you get a preferable rate. Highest demand for the foreseeable future will remain a hot summer during the day with all A/C's running. The vast majority of EV's charge off peak where there is lots of capacity.

On the condo front, it is far more complicated. Not much extra capacity on the transformer or input wires. A condo could monitor power used by the chiller and dump chargers when required. Unless mandated by government, I think most condos will continue to limit installation of chargers as much as possible. It is easier and cheaper and avoids the pushback from ice residents that don't want to pay for the upgrades required. If chargers were operated on a cost-recovery basis that would probably smoke the financial benefit of EV.

 

[nobbie48]

Condos are a huge issue for this. Single family homes far less so. Many municipalities outside of ontario have customers charge vehicles off a separate electric meter. That would be a reasonably simple modification if a utility was worried about charging demand. Hell, they could mandate this with a requirement that utility had control and could shut off that meter if required to regulate demand. In exchange, you get a preferable rate. Highest demand for the foreseeable future will remain a hot summer during the day with all A/C's running. The vast majority of EV's charge off peak where there is lots of capacity.

On the condo front, it is far more complicated. Not much extra capacity on the transformer or input wires. A condo could monitor power used by the chiller and dump chargers when required. Unless mandated by government, I think most condos will continue to limit installation of chargers as much as possible. It is easier and cheaper and avoids the pushback from ice residents that don't want to pay for the upgrades required. If chargers were operated on a cost-recovery basis that would probably smoke the financial benefit of EV.

A friend is a site supervisor for one of the biggest condo electrical contractors in the GTA and the last I spoke to him they were only putting in a dozen or so charge points in the new developments.

ICE residents might get annoyed having to pay for EV charging costs so seperate meters would be required. To sell electricity the condo would have to register as a utility. It isn't as simple a running a bit of BX.

 

[OntFF]

ICE residents might get annoyed having to pay for EV charging costs so seperate meters would be required. To sell electricity the condo would have to register as a utility. It isn't as simple a running a bit of BX.

How most condo's seem to be handling it these days is putting the EV chargers on the common meter - then use sub-metering (often with smart cards associated for billing purposes) to do cost-recovery.

 

[GreyGhost]

How most condo's seem to be handling it these days is putting the EV chargers on the common meter - then use sub-metering (often with smart cards associated for billing purposes) to do cost-recovery.

Afaik, that sticks them with per hour billing. I don't think you can do per kwh billing yet (although it is happening now, you have to register and I doubt most condos would bother). Per hour billing, especially if you plan on leaving your car plugged in overnight ruins the economics.

 

[Brian P]

The real killer is the service upgrade cost - a level 2 charger pretty much requires a 200A service; and if your existing service needs upgraded, that can add up fast. Aerial isn't too bad, but if you have an underground service, and need trenching; 10k's a good starting place, and it can go up from there.

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Clothes dryer circuits are 240v 30A, which means 5.6 kW charging ... this is what I have.

 

[GreyGhost]

NeoCharge Smart Splitter

The NeoCharge Smart Splitter allows you to share your 240V dryer and EV or two EVs on one outlet for faster home EV charging access. Save money by avoiding electric panel upgrades. Trusted by thousands of EV drivers for Level 2 Home EV Charging installation. Utility rebates available, UL Listed...

getneocharge.com

Clothes dryer circuits are 240v 30A, which means 5.6 kW charging ... this is what I have.

That's a cool solution if your dryer is close(or could be moved close) to your charging location. Avoids the cycles on the receptacle if you physically switched the cord often. MP could use that at the cottage to simplify charging.

 

[SunnY S]

The real killer is the service upgrade cost - a level 2 charger pretty much requires a 200A service; and if your existing service needs upgraded, that can add up fast. Aerial isn't too bad, but if you have an underground service, and need trenching; 10k's a good starting place, and it can go up from there.

I've had 2 customers so far who paid around 15g to get a new 200amp line torpedoed from the transformer to the house. I have a third one who is in the final stages with hydro for at least 10g bill for a new 200 amp line so he can charge his Audi E tron.

Then you have to add in my costs. . (panel and meter base upgrade)

 

[SunnY S]

NeoCharge Smart Splitter

The NeoCharge Smart Splitter allows you to share your 240V dryer and EV or two EVs on one outlet for faster home EV charging access. Save money by avoiding electric panel upgrades. Trusted by thousands of EV drivers for Level 2 Home EV Charging installation. Utility rebates available, UL Listed...

getneocharge.com

Clothes dryer circuits are 240v 30A, which means 5.6 kW charging ... this is what I have.

I'd upgrade your dryer receptacle to "commercial" grade type. They residential type aren't designed to handle heavy loads over hours and hours of constant use.

I've seen lots of melted plugs.....

 

[Mad Mike]

I've had 2 customers so far who paid around 15g to get a new 200amp line torpedoed from the transformer to the house. I have a third one who is in the final stages with hydro for at least 10g bill for a new 200 amp line so he can charge is Audi E tron.

Then you have to add in my costs. . (panel and meter base upgrade)

My house was built in the 60s, it has underground 3/0 and the original panel was only 60A twist in fuses. Underground started in the 60s, I've only seen 3/0 into panels, I guess that's not everywhere.

All I did was upgrade the panel and meter base. Permitted and passed.

 

[SunnY S]

My house was built in the 60s, it has underground 3/0 and the original panel was only 60A twist in fuses. Underground started in the 60s, I've only seen 3/0 into panels, I guess that's not everywhere.

All I did was upgrade the panel and meter base. Permitted and passed.

yes, that was when wire was cheap.

in 80s and up, there are lots (but not all) of subdivisions (in our area at least) where the developer cheaped out and only ran #2 which is max 125amp service.

of course, moving forward in current times, 200amp wire will be the standard.

 

[AllistonGT]

Our house was built in 1992. 100 amp service. At least the transformer is on my front yard. Garage is opposite end of the house from the panel. Finished basement with drywalled cielings. Thousands of houses in Ontario just like mine. Cant imagine every house has to spend $000's to get a charger into their garage.

Could a line be split off from the dryer? Some way to manage the draw? Thats closer to my garage.

 

[Mad Mike]

Our house was built in 1992. 100 amp service. At least the transformer is on my front yard. Garage is opposite end of the house from the panel. Finished basement with drywalled cielings. Thousands of houses in Ontario just like mine. Cant imagine every house has to spend $000's to get a charger into their garage.

Could a line be split off from the dryer? Some way to manage the draw? Thats closer to my garage.

You can install L2 at 30A, they don't need to be full on 80a setups. Longer charging time, but will still get you 25mi of range per chargeing hour.

Check your work policy. Our company policy is to install a full bore L2 charger and provide free power to staff. 1 charger for every 3 evs.

 

[GreyGhost]

Our house was built in 1992. 100 amp service. At least the transformer is on my front yard. Garage is opposite end of the house from the panel. Finished basement with drywalled cielings. Thousands of houses in Ontario just like mine. Cant imagine every house has to spend $000's to get a charger into their garage.

Could a line be split off from the dryer? Some way to manage the draw? Thats closer to my garage.

Brian uses a solution that taps the dryer plug. Needs to have the dryer in the garage or some creative wiring to make it happen though.

Not cheap but cheaper than destroying a whole ceiling is to run wire around the outside of the house like you would for a hot tub.

Alternatively, you may be able to get a second hydro drop at the garage end from the transformer (with a separate meter). That will cost a bunch but could give you two 80A tesla circuits.

 

[AllistonGT]

Brian uses a solution that taps the dryer plug. Needs to have the dryer in the garage or some creative wiring to make it happen though.

Not cheap but cheaper than destroying a whole ceiling is to run wire around the outside of the house like you would for a hot tub.

Alternatively, you may be able to get a second hydro drop at the garage end from the transformer (with a separate meter). That will cost a bunch but could give you two 80A tesla circuits.

Good thing I own a bungalow with a high pitch. I guess I could run a line up the outside wall from the meter to the attic and across to garage.