Draining coolant/water for winter and not refilling, any damage?

LupusInterOves said:
Far from the same situation. And I didn't say it was going to definitely cause problems. But with the major potential for trapped water to freeze over the winter, and without the added protection from the corrosion inhibitors and pump seal lubricants/conditioners, why not just store it with coolant other than being lazy and risking it?
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Actually it is the same situation. My street bike is getting converted over the winter which means I can't run coolant on the track (it currently has water). There isn't a point to refilling and draining over winterization unless there's a chance of damage. Seems like most of the track day guys haven't had problems doing this.
 
Do people generally fill up the engine completely with oil for storage, and then drain it out in the spring,
or just leave it at an appropriate level for riding?
 
Baggsy said:
Do people generally fill up the engine completely with oil for storage, and then drain it out in the spring,
or just leave it at an appropriate level for riding?
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Oil doesn't freeze and crack stuff due to a state change causing expansion. So...I don't see a reason to do that =P
 
油井緋色;2355187 said:
Actually it is the same situation. My street bike is getting converted over the winter which means I can't run coolant on the track (it currently has water). There isn't a point to refilling and draining over winterization unless there's a chance of damage. Seems like most of the track day guys haven't had problems doing this.
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So storing a bike for months over the winter is the same situation as a bike that sees track time regularly . . . yup seems the same to me.

I mean, what do I know, I'm only a automotive specialized mechanical engineer working for a multinational automanufacturer.

As others have mentioned when draining much of the fluid remains in pockets, there is your "chance of damage". If you don't want to recognize that risk, or belittle it, go ahead. That doesn't change the fact that you are missing out on freezing protection, corrosion protection and gasket/seal lubrication/conditioning. If you don't care for it, that is one thing. But to argue against it . . . I mean at this point, I'm really starting to realize just what a waste of time this is. So ya, please continue storing as you do. It really matters to me, trust me.
 
LupusInterOves said:
As others have mentioned when draining much of the fluid remains in pockets, there is your "chance of damage". If you don't want to recognize that risk, or belittle it, go ahead. That doesn't change the fact that you are missing out on freezing protection, corrosion protection and gasket/seal lubrication/conditioning. If you don't care for it, that is one thing. But to argue against it . . . I mean at this point, I'm really starting to realize just what a waste of time this is. So ya, please continue storing as you do. It really matters to me, trust me.
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A big huge x2.

I'm quite honestly astounded by the number of people who are apparently willing to risk their engine every winter by just gravity draining water and leaving it. I wonder how many of these people have ever had an engine apart and seen pools of liquid sitting in water jackets, valves, pipes...etc?

Here's some images of what can happen if there's just enough water in just the wrong spot.

And perhaps I'm missing it..but why are people using plain water vs coolant to begin with? Having seen first hand the corrosion and deterioration that using plain water can and does cause it just seems like a terrible all around idea to me.
 
PrivatePilot said:
And perhaps I'm missing it..but why are people using plain water vs coolant to begin with? Having seen first hand the corrosion and deterioration that using plain water can and does cause it just seems like a terrible all around idea to me.
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It's not plain water, you add Water Wetter to it to give it the lubricating properties. The reason is because Glycol based lubricants are very slippery and when crashes happen and coolant is spilled, it causes a safety risk. I always change my bikes over back to coolant, but I ride them on the street also.
 
Is there a particular brand of coolant that everyone uses?
Will be draining the water & water wetter from my trusty old ZX7 track bike tonight & re-filling with antifreeze/coolant for the winter - was going to buy a name brand from Can Tire but wondering what everyone else is using?
 
Just use the cheapest if just using it for storage. For that matter....cheap changed regularly is better than "name brand" left in too long.
 
PrivatePilot said:
A big huge x2.

I'm quite honestly astounded by the number of people who are apparently willing to risk their engine every winter by just gravity draining water and leaving it. I wonder how many of these people have ever had an engine apart and seen pools of liquid sitting in water jackets, valves, pipes...etc?

Here's some images of what can happen if there's just enough water in just the wrong spot.

And perhaps I'm missing it..but why are people using plain water vs coolant to begin with? Having seen first hand the corrosion and deterioration that using plain water can and does cause it just seems like a terrible all around idea to me.
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Because you're not allowed to use coolant on a race track. Also the water and lubricant get changed every year, how many street bikes get the coolant changed that often?

I haven't had a motor stay in my bike over the winter yet so I guess I'll have to decide what I'm going to do this year.
 
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SweetOnion said:
It's not plain water, you add Water Wetter to it to give it the lubricating properties. The reason is because Glycol based lubricants are very slippery and when crashes happen
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Aha, that makes sense. I figured there had to be a valid reason but not being a track guy it never occurred to me. I try to keep my glycol off the road. ;)
 
I just got my first bike. I assumed it would have a mixture of antifreeze in it. Glad I read this post, I need to check that out. Is there any reason why not to run a mixture in the summer? I see some mentioning they drain out the coolant.
 
If the bike was also tracked then some people just run water or water with wetter during the summer months. Saves from having to switch when you do go out for a day on the track.

If you are not sure then just do a flush and put new coolant in.

Draining the water out was my job for today, however I've got a pretty good hangover going so I think maybe tomorrow will be day.
 
Double_J said:
I just got my first bike. I assumed it would have a mixture of antifreeze in it. Glad I read this post, I need to check that out. Is there any reason why not to run a mixture in the summer? I see some mentioning they drain out the coolant.
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Draining the water and replacing with coolant for storage is for a track bike. Your street bike would have a coolant mix and only needs to be changed as per schedule.
 
You see this a lot on boat engines with open cooling systems too....people just drain the block and walk away, especially if they can't run the engine during winterizing. . Pretty dumb IMHO; after you dump the water the other option is to fill with plumbing antifreeze. Sleep well every winter doing that
 
happycrappy said:
You see this a lot on boat engines with open cooling systems too....people just drain the block and walk away, especially if they can't run the engine during winterizing. . Pretty dumb IMHO; after you dump the water the other option is to fill with plumbing antifreeze. Sleep well every winter doing that
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Take note that when it comes to non-toxic antifreeze such as plumbing antifreeze, there are different grades. The typical hardware store plumbing antifreeze isn't really ideal for using in engines for winter storage since it doesn't have corrosion inhibitors and is really only designed for PEX (Plastic) or copper (traditional) plumbing. Steel, aluminum etc (AKA, the inside of your engine) as well as rubber seals may not react well to it.

There are non toxic marine engine options that have the relevant corrosion inhibitors and are designed for use inside an engine, but they're (more) expensive...and are really designed for open-loop cooling systems like most boat engines have where recovering the antifreeze in the spring is difficult or impossible...AKA, the antifreeze is going in the water.

In a motorcycle application where the antifreeze can be reasonably easily recovered...using the cheap green glycol you can get almost anywhere is still, IMHO, the best option...and last I checked, cheaper than marine grade engine "non toxic" antifreeze.
 
LupusInterOves said:
So storing a bike for months over the winter is the same situation as a bike that sees track time regularly . . . yup seems the same to me.

I mean, what do I know, I'm only a automotive specialized mechanical engineer working for a multinational automanufacturer.

As others have mentioned when draining much of the fluid remains in pockets, there is your "chance of damage". If you don't want to recognize that risk, or belittle it, go ahead. That doesn't change the fact that you are missing out on freezing protection, corrosion protection and gasket/seal lubrication/conditioning. If you don't care for it, that is one thing. But to argue against it . . . I mean at this point, I'm really starting to realize just what a waste of time this is. So ya, please continue storing as you do. It really matters to me, trust me.
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"OHH MY GOD........you an are automotive specialized mechanical engineer working for a multinational auto manufacturer?? I guess I wont be needing my panties anymore" I bet you get that a lot
 
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