Dougie's latest plan | GTAMotorcycle.com

Dougie's latest plan

TK4

TK4

Well-known member
He's delusional -
Ontario Premier Doug Ford says he is exploring the feasibility of digging a tunnel for traffic and transit under Highway 401 across the Toronto area. But he also says he is going to build it regardless. He has provided no costs estimates or timeline. Ford says the project would stretch from Mississauga, Ont., in the west to Markham, Ont., in the east. He says the tunneling would go smoother than Boston’s infamous “big dig” that was beset by delays and massive cost overruns. That project took 25 years to complete and cost at least $8-billion.
-The Canadian Press
 
This is his dumbest idea yet and that's a really high bar. I see he's starting with indigenous consultations. Wtf. That is just extortion. The land has already been trashed. On the tiny chance any construction ever happens, consult if you find something.
 
mimico_polak said:
Bring it, I'll retire building tunnels in the GTA instead of having to travel as job continues.
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You're already in good shape. Metrolinx projects alone and their leisurely pace could keep ypu employed for decades.

Tunneling for 401 expansion seems crazy. I would think cut and cover would be faster, cheaper and better. You are stripping a pretty beat up road. How many tbm passes are required for 20 lanes?

Edit:

Cut and cover also allows you to design and build foundations to allow buildings in air space above. The air rights would pay for the whole project.
 
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GreyGhost said:
You're already in good shape. Metrolinx projects alone and their leisurely pace could keep ypu employed for decades.

Tunneling for 401 expansion seems crazy. I would think cut and cover would be faster, cheaper and better. You are stripping a pretty beat up road. How many tbm passes are required for 20 lanes?
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Depends on the size...a 8-10m diameter machine can have 3-4 lanes going one way on one level, and 3-4 lanes going the opposite way on the different level.

I've also seen smaller tunnel machines (think ECLRT / TYSSE) will allow for movement of 1-2 lanes in each direction at the midpoint. It's also a great way to have new utilities running underneath the roadway as it's a fresh start.

Let's bring Elon's 'The Boring Company' which hasn't delivered anything to date yet.
 
I groaned when I saw this break. Ontario's first trillion dollar infrastructure project?

Funny though, that it's a similar election ploy to Rob Ford's tunneled subway expansion. All it needs now is an assertion that it will be at zero cost to taxpayers because private partners will somehow pay for it.
 
TwistedKestrel said:
I groaned when I saw this break. Ontario's first trillion dollar infrastructure project?

Funny though, that it's a similar election ploy to Rob Ford's tunneled subway expansion. All it needs now is an assertion that it will be at zero cost to taxpayers because private partners will somehow pay for it.
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If they sell/lease air rights, zero cost is plausible. Like everything else politicians touch, I suspect they will screw it up and cost us billions.

For "affordable" housing options, there is probably a viable path where land ownership stays with the province and the province collects something like $1/sq ft/month for land lease. Company that builds the building collects rent or sells off the units but as they didn't need to fork out in the ballpark of $300k per unit in land costs, they can afford to offer lower rent/sales price.
 
I actually think that the idea is a good one in theory. I don't trust that anyone can make this happen in a timely manner and on budget.
 
oioioi said:
I actually think that the idea is a good one in theory. I don't trust that anyone can make this happen in a timely manner and on budget.
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On budget is possible. Given what infrastructure typically costs in Ontario, they could just assign it a $1T budget and call it a win when they come it at $999B. With enough disregard for fiscal responsibility, you may even get it done on time (by bringing in competent contractors with crazy profit for on-time delivery and crushing penalties for being late).
 
GreyGhost said:
On budget is possible. Given what infrastructure typically costs in Ontario, they could just assign it a $1T budget and call it a win when they come it at $999B. With enough disregard for fiscal responsibility, you may even get it done on time (by bringing in competent contractors with crazy profit for on-time delivery and crushing penalties for being late).
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You are right. I guess anything can be on budget as long as the budget is enormous and unreasonable.
 
Just one more (underground) lane, bro.


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matthew said:
Just one more (underground) lane, bro.


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While I think it is a stupid idea overall, visually separating sections of road would make a magic difference to traffic flow. Right now, one incident in one lane drops traffic flow in every other lane by at least half (and normally there is a secondary crash to further slow things down). Cheaper to build some walls on top of the existing concrete barriers than it is to dig a tunnel though.

It would be interesting to see what plan/modelling they have for this. If express was buried and only had interchanges at highways (412/404/400/427/403/401) would that work? I think a ton of traffic would be diverted from the surface and visual separation is achieved as well as separation from weather (assuming the tunnel doesn't flood which may be a bad assumption and it becomes a giant tomb).
 
I take it Dougie got stuck on the 401 someplace, and this is where this is coming from?
Maybe some better planned construction projects, and ones which don't always seem to start after winter, and somehow finish just before winter...
 
GreyGhost said:
While I think it is a stupid idea overall, visually separating sections of road would make a magic difference to traffic flow. Right now, one incident in one lane drops traffic flow in every other lane by at least half (and normally there is a secondary crash to further slow things down). Cheaper to build some walls on top of the existing concrete barriers than it is to dig a tunnel though.

It would be interesting to see what plan/modelling they have for this. If express was buried and only had interchanges at highways (412/404/400/427/403/401) would that work? I think a ton of traffic would be diverted from the surface and visual separation is achieved as well as separation from weather (assuming the tunnel doesn't flood which may be a bad assumption and it becomes a giant tomb).
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I would be a big fan of installing those 'louvres' like on the Gardiner that physically separate the west/east lanes where gawkers can't see through them. They're not full walls, so they don't give that claustrophobic feeling, and would prevent the rubber neckers from slowing down and taking a look.
 
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