Doug Ford - has your opinion changed? | Page 19 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Doug Ford - has your opinion changed?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Graphic design? wtf, how did that get special mention? That is a huge loser. Easily sent offshore and very little reason for people to pay premium local rates. A friend was a partner in a graphic design firm and made slightly more than minimum wage.

A cousin in Winnipeg did graphics for a company in Montreal. Click, send. What's the shipping difference between MTL and the peg and MTL and India? A nano second?

If a country is to grow wealth it has to own competitive businesses. Hondas and Toyotas may be built here but head office is in Japan.

We need more entrepreneur focus in our systems.
 
That makes more sense to me than graphic design or tax credits for students. Especially when the majority of post-secondary students are taking programs that will never give them an economic advantage.
Yes but remember that each kid is special and will always be protected. I blame the parents for not focusing their offspring into the programs with economic advantage.

Sure you can survive as an artist when mom and dad leverage their house, but not once the money dries up.

And what I say is not against the arts. Just that it’s MUCH harder to survive on an arts degree v a STEM degree.

and why did graphic design get special mention you ask? Hmmm...graphics...labels...decorative....DECO LABELS!
 
Yes but remember that each kid is special and will always be protected. I blame the parents for not focusing their offspring into the programs with economic advantage.

Sure you can survive as an artist when mom and dad leverage their house, but not once the money dries up.

And what I say is not against the arts. Just that it’s MUCH harder to survive on an arts degree v a STEM degree.

and why did graphic design get special mention you ask? Hmmm...graphics...labels...decorative....DECO LABELS!
I believe in a strong arts program in schools and that includes art appreciation. Once someone is out in the real world the government support stops. If you're good the people that appreciate your art will buy it. If you aren't as good as you've been led to believe I hope your parents are rich.

Same with sports. Enjoy the rink, court or field but have a degree in your back pocket for when the scout doesn't call or your knee blows out.
 
And what I say is not against the arts. Just that it’s MUCH harder to survive on an arts degree v a STEM degree.
That is an interesting conflict that I don't know how to resolve. Long ago, universities were houses of thought with little concern for the economics. They were places to discuss and grow your mind. Colleges were for training to work. Now we are in this weird situation where so many people drift through a degree or more with little thought/growth or economic benefit (to them). The university monster needs a constant supply of souls to drive up gross revenue and cares little about whether what they are providing has benefit to the students. Add in students taking multiple degrees that all have little purpose and you are in a spiral of stupid.

I don't think universities should only offer degrees that have direct economic advantages as there are societal benefits to thought purely for thought sake. I do strongly believe they should stop offering mouth-breather courses/programs. If it isn't hard, nobody cares that you did it and all you have done is waste years and lots of money. I don't care what my kids do but if they are going to post-secondary education, they are doing something hard. Even if that is not directly applicable to the job they want, people recognize that you made it through and that opens a lot of doors.
 
^
Doug Ford messed around with OSAP amounts which hurt a ton of students

 
Last edited by a moderator:
For post secondary education (including trades etc.) what I would do....

Keep tuition more or less at the levels now. Let student loans be more free flowing, including training for trades etc. BUT, you get forgiveness on your loan based on how much you pay in taxes (actually pay after deductions etc.) (including during co-op). Higher paying fields will get more forgiveness. Once the system has been around long enough to have solid data the relative pay-off rates (including comparison to all other fields) will be signed off on when getting the loans.

Do a STEM program and pay 30K in taxes (ideally both fed and prov are on board), you get say 10K of your loan forgiven per year. Do another touchy feely program, get a McJob after graduation and pay 3K in taxes, well you get 1K forgiveness per year. Schools are not permitted to jack tuition for higher paying fields (if they do the students are out of the program). You still make the required regular payments.

Also remember, beyond tuition, tax payers are still funding the publicly funded post secondary schools directly regardless of program, about half the actual cost. Even if you leave the country the day after graduation, half your education was paid for by taxpayers! Does not matter what program or outcome.

It does a few things...
  • There is no excuse for not knowing, the data is part of the loan agreement (forgiveness per year). Programs typically post data about employment after graduation but nothing about pay....
  • Reality check before classes start, no more just go to university for a life of rainbows and unicorns.
  • Increased funding to trades.
  • Maximizes the benefit to society as it will maximize post graduation tax contribution.
  • Reduces the burden of student loans for everyone that pays taxes, even McJobs.
  • To get the full benefit you have to work in the prov you learn in (where taxes went to educate you). Change prov you lose that prov portion. Go work in the US you get nothing forgiven as you do not pay taxes here (reduce brain drain).
  • Data based (taxes).
  • Student loans should be easier to get (required as part of the system), does not matter on the program including trades.
 
That makes more sense to me than graphic design or tax credits for students. Especially when the majority of post-secondary students are taking programs that will never give them an economic advantage.
Are you trying to say my Doctorate in Female Peruvian footwear is not gonna bring in the big bucks?
 
Doug is a douche. Thought it then. Think that now.
 
Yes but remember that each kid is special and will always be protected. I blame the parents for not focusing their offspring into the programs with economic advantage.

Sure you can survive as an artist when mom and dad leverage their house, but not once the money dries up.

And what I say is not against the arts. Just that it’s MUCH harder to survive on an arts degree v a STEM degree.

and why did graphic design get special mention you ask? Hmmm...graphics...labels...decorative....DECO LABELS!
Graph design is much more than making art. Everything you see, be it this web page, any book, magazine, flyer, menu, brochure, medical packaging, instruction guides, etc etc etc. is done by a graphic designer with varying levels of skill. I work in print and do some light design, not something I enjoy but I can put together a newsletter, business card, whatever, when needed. Now I am not sure this is a skill needing tax credits, I would say it is much more then making art. A good graphic designer does much more then make something pretty on a screen, they work with the client, understand the client and through that hopefully design something that reflects the brand they are designing for.
 
Graph design is much more than making art. Everything you see, be it this web page, any book, magazine, flyer, menu, brochure, medical packaging, instruction guides, etc etc etc. is done by a graphic designer with varying levels of skill. I work in print and do some light design, not something I enjoy but I can put together a newsletter, business card, whatever, when needed. Now I am not sure this is a skill needing tax credits, I would say it is much more then making art. A good graphic designer does much more then make something pretty on a screen, they work with the client, understand the client and through that hopefully design something that reflects the brand they are designing for.
I am not saying at all that it is lacking in skill, but I do believe tax-credits to prop it up is throwing money away. It is just too easy for it to be done by equally talented and educated people elsewhere where cost-of-living and wages are lower. Either entirely virtual or a few people here to meet with clients and the army somewhere else to crank out the work.
 
Just so it’s clear @wonderings im not bashing graphic design or any other artistic job.

My point is a lot of people take degrees and courses toward disciplines that will very likely not pay off or be able to pay their bills. Artistic ones just fit that stereotype more.

I have a few friends in graphic design and frankly I don’t have a clue how the hell you guys do what you do...I sure as hell can’t.
 
Just so it’s clear @wonderings im not bashing graphic design or any other artistic job.

My point is a lot of people take degrees and courses toward disciplines that will very likely not pay off or be able to pay their bills. Artistic ones just fit that stereotype more.

I have a few friends in graphic design and frankly I don’t have a clue how the hell you guys do what you do...I sure as hell can’t.
If you are good there is a lot of money to be made. Generally these are design houses and they have some great clients that keep the cash rolling. I am in print, so I am not dependent on my moderate graphic design skills and go long periods without (thankfully) having to do any real design work. There are a lot of really bad graphic designers out there though, people who think they have cracked version of photoshop makes them a designer.
 
If you are good there is a lot of money to be made. Generally these are design houses and they have some great clients that keep the cash rolling. I am in print, so I am not dependent on my moderate graphic design skills and go long periods without (thankfully) having to do any real design work. There are a lot of really bad graphic designers out there though, people who think they have cracked version of photoshop makes them a designer.
Same as anyone with a camera is a photographer, a guy painting his basement is now a painter, and the guy mowing his lawn is a landscape expert....oh wait....with that criteria I’m all 3!

The hell with the office. I’m going solo!
 
Same as anyone with a camera is a photographer, a guy painting his basement is now a painter, and the guy mowing his lawn is a landscape expert....oh wait....with that criteria I’m all 3!

The hell with the office. I’m going solo!
I feel both attacked and insulted by all your examples ?
 
If you are a designated ESA does that exempt you from mask protocols?
I don’t know....but I guess all I need is to say ‘medical exemption’ and should be fine....

I kid. I like wearing my mask. Work just initiated that we can’t wear cloth but those medical ones. That’s gonna suck.
 
I don’t know....but I guess all I need is to say ‘medical exemption’ and should be fine....

I kid. I like wearing my mask. Work just initiated that we can’t wear cloth but those medical ones. That’s gonna suck.
N95 or surgical masks?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom