I'm guessing that you've either never heard of Yellow-Wolf or checked out any of his Youtube Vids.He's running a CT through the Dragon quicker than a lot of sportbikes and he's running a CT.If a CT was about to part company with the rim or his bike was about to part company with the road it would have done it long before now.Take a look if you can spare a couple of minutes and then come back and tell me that they don't handle and won't stay on the rim.
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Darksider - conviction registered
- Thread starter Bike Cop
- Start date
I'm guessing that you've either never heard of Yellow-Wolf or checked out any of his Youtube Vids.He's running a CT through the Dragon quicker than a lot of sportbikes and he's running a CT.If a CT was about to part company with the rim or his bike was about to part company with the road it would have done it long before now.Take a look if you can spare a couple of minutes and then come back and tell me that they don't handle and won't stay on the rim.
I've seen a few of his vids.The guy has the biggest ego of anyone i have ever come across.Car tire or not,who cares if he can turn fast times at a public road like the US#129? Yellow Wolf is your hero? Check out his video of him running #129 in his company Peterbilt.He runs into the other lane on almost every right turn because the truck is too long.Yes,i know he was going slow.But what if the oncoming traffic wasn't going slow? The guy is a huge blowhard.
[video=youtube;HNkNEMBPASY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNkNEMBPASY[/video]
[video=youtube;HNkNEMBPASY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNkNEMBPASY[/video]
Roomie
Banned
Finally... A post I fully agree with you on. That guy is a twat, skilled or not on a bike. Ego catches up with you eventually.
Thanks.I've been having some "fun" with the clown here.http://gl1800riders.com/forums/showthread.php?484706-Passing-Sport-Bikes
So twat or not(no he's not my hero,but his vids show what the ct will do) you still convinced a CT can't handle anything a MT can OR ARE YOU STILL IN DENIAL?Strait line accel and decel go to the CT dry or wet,so that leaves the twisties and twat or not he's proved right there for everyone to see that it actually works a well as the MT there as well.
Well,i guess it will be hard for you to prove that a ct is better.Nobody in their right mind is going to do (well the NC twat would) a tire for tire performance test on the street.Braking,cornering etc etc.
And good luck finding a trackday organizer that will let it happen on a track. (with professional riders of course.No twats)
Yellowhatshisname's videos prove one thing for sure.He is destined to be a hood ornament someday.Just a matter of time.Watching his videos shows that his tires rarely cross the yellow line.But his head is well into the path of splat lots of the time.
And good luck finding a trackday organizer that will let it happen on a track. (with professional riders of course.No twats)
Yellowhatshisname's videos prove one thing for sure.He is destined to be a hood ornament someday.Just a matter of time.Watching his videos shows that his tires rarely cross the yellow line.But his head is well into the path of splat lots of the time.
BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
Rick - Wingboy... just let it be...
I have come to the conclusion that Darksiders have the same mentality as religious zealots on nut bars (anything from fruitcake Muslims to bonkers Christians).
No matter what proof you present that completely nullifies their religion or opinion, the will ignore it outright and carry on.
You tell Creationists that the world is multi millions of years old, they say maybe 50,000 years max. You tell Al-Qaeda that being Muslim is not a religion of violence they'll laugh at you. You tell Darksiders that car tire manufacturers say it's a dangerous practice (for many reasons) the Darksiders will tell you to go stuff it because they know better..
Logic has been exhausted. I'm out.
I have come to the conclusion that Darksiders have the same mentality as religious zealots on nut bars (anything from fruitcake Muslims to bonkers Christians).
No matter what proof you present that completely nullifies their religion or opinion, the will ignore it outright and carry on.
You tell Creationists that the world is multi millions of years old, they say maybe 50,000 years max. You tell Al-Qaeda that being Muslim is not a religion of violence they'll laugh at you. You tell Darksiders that car tire manufacturers say it's a dangerous practice (for many reasons) the Darksiders will tell you to go stuff it because they know better..
Logic has been exhausted. I'm out.
So what is the benefit? You take the time to mount a good MT because why? It last longer? You just don't want to spend the time and money to replace a motorcycle tire? SO IT IS BECAUSE OF MONEY. Plain and simple.
HarleyHare
Well-known member
I'm at a loss why anyone would choose to jump into a shark tank. Invite opinion on law enforcement on something so basic an engineering requirement (bikes lean and that is why they require rounded tires - cars and bikes with sidecars do not lean so can and should have square tires), and all common sense flies out the window. No one wants a ticket, period, even if they are wrong. Telling riders of infractions just reminds them of a ticket they got or stirs up hostility for some of the nonsense laws (not this one) that police did not put on the books.
My guess is that you must be a fairly new or young officer in that you want to have good rapport with the public and that is important, but posting this information may have been intended to warn riders that legislators have ruled that square tires on bikes is not allowed, but posting that message on this board really turns out to be begging for punishment. What you are doing is enforcing the law and not writing it. And that is why police officers have one of the hardest and most thankless jobs on earth. And that statement also recognizes some officers make their job more difficult by their temperament and are not a joy to deal with; just as can happen with people in any other job. And you shouldn't need to explain the law, it is what it is. Be safe.
This forum exists to explain the law and how to navigate it.
On the original subject, this sort of modification invites all sorts of possible charges. The equipment charges are the least of them. When it comes to whether this is a safe practise or not, self reporting is notoriously inaccurate. At the very least, some negative reporters may no longer be around to indicate their results. I would want to see the MTO, DOT, or NHTSA weigh in on the matter bu tthe statistics I found don't address crashes/fatalities as a result of vehicle modification.
This TBH.
Not to mention the amount of DarkSiders to the general motorcycle population is probably way less than 5% so given a small population and the reliance on self reporting its almost impossible to make a claim of safety (Pro or against) on statistics.
Exactly. There's also a great deal of pressure not to report negative outcomes. Declining of insurance claims. Traffic Act charges. Public ridicule. It's why anecdotal evidence is given such little weight in science and debate.
You guys stop being logical..lol
Self reporting is not accurate EXCEPT when it comes to darksiding. Darksiders have a vested interest in reporting negative experiences...GMAFB
One might know his wife is ugly. But if someone else comments on it he will tell them they are full of it she is beautiful he has PROOF he married her because she is sooo beautiful..lol Therefore, she is beautiful, he has anecdotal evidence to support his position.
Self reporting is not accurate EXCEPT when it comes to darksiding. Darksiders have a vested interest in reporting negative experiences...GMAFB
One might know his wife is ugly. But if someone else comments on it he will tell them they are full of it she is beautiful he has PROOF he married her because she is sooo beautiful..lol Therefore, she is beautiful, he has anecdotal evidence to support his position.
Well seeing as how Bikecop is choosing to ignore my questions and the rest of you really don't know WTF you're talking about when it comes to running CT's then I'm out of here.Unless you have actual CT experience your opinion doesn't meen **** to me.Again I'm not sure why you seem to think that we do it because it's cheaper as some guys are running $400 CT's while the majority are in the $200 to $300 range.
BTW This site is a joke.You're either looking for some place to be a wannabe racer(best ramp to drag a knee or best bump to get air) or you're whining about the ticket you got when you found a place and got caught doing it.Then you have the nerve to jump on someone for driving normal and running a CT.F**king awesome site.
A great place for a Copper or an ambulance chacer to troll though.
BTW This site is a joke.You're either looking for some place to be a wannabe racer(best ramp to drag a knee or best bump to get air) or you're whining about the ticket you got when you found a place and got caught doing it.Then you have the nerve to jump on someone for driving normal and running a CT.F**king awesome site.
A great place for a Copper or an ambulance chacer to troll though.
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I also don't have any experience picking my nose with an ice pick, but I figure that it might not bode well for future cognitive function. I do, however, have experience with riding on 160-180 section motorcycle tires that have been flat spotted and even that can have a radical effect on a motorcycle's handling characteristics. Sure, you might be able to get away with it in day to day usage, but the test comes when you have an unusual situation. That is where having some margin to play with is important.
Bike Cop CAN't answer your questions, (I explained why he couldn't back about 4 pages), that is like asking the guy sweeping the floor why the corporate policy is written the way it is. Bike Cop is a street level officer he doesn't make policy nor do the police write the laws.
As for your rant. your right I don't have any experience running a car tire on a bike, in reality neither do YOU. I am guessing you have put what 1,000 km in your TWO WEEKS experience. I guess that makes you an expert. The "real" experts have given their reasoning and the RESEARCH behind it, (I am speaking iof the tire engineers, and bike engineers). I am sorry I won't, as much as you want us to, accept the "word" of a VERY small proportion of guys riding a SINGLE bike model, (goldwing 1800), as "experts". Just because the guys from Duck Dynasty can shoot a gun, doesn't make them "experts" in hunting large game in Africa.
I get YOUR opinion is right and no one else, (including the engineers), have a freaking clue. Good for you. Ride away, it won't affect me, nor will affect me if you get a ticket or a denied insurance claim, (which of course will NEVER happen as this tire will never cause an issue. Even if there were a failure, while the rest of us wannabes would surely crash, whereas your two weeks experience will result in a safe outcome and of course you will be the FIRST to report a failure.
As for people saying it is a cost saving measure look at the comments made by the majority of darksiders. They are fed up with the bike tires wearing out so quickly. So let me "educate you" 10 bike tires used in say 100,000 kms, 10 X $225 = $2250. PLUS the other associated costs, wheel mounting tire tax, HST so lets call it an even $3,000. Now darksiders claim the car tires last 2 - 3 times longer so lets say 4 tires for those same 100,000 kms. 4 X $300, (using your figures of 200 - 400), = $1200 plus the associated cost = $1500, so approx one half the cost.
Glad you stopped in to educate the rest of us mere wannabes.
Any of the darksiders I have spoken to, (yes we actually talk and they don't look down upon me, instead they provide their point of view and I provide mine. I have yet to experience one of them throwing a "hissy fit" taking their ball and not playing anymore)...lol. These have told me their reason is LONGER tire life, NOT safety, NOT concern about MC tire failure. So in essence SAVINGS. But we all know you do it purely for the "science"
Along with Rob's example. I have never been kicked in the balls but I draw a "reasonable inference" that it will hurt. Why because "experts", (doctors), have said it will.
As for your rant. your right I don't have any experience running a car tire on a bike, in reality neither do YOU. I am guessing you have put what 1,000 km in your TWO WEEKS experience. I guess that makes you an expert. The "real" experts have given their reasoning and the RESEARCH behind it, (I am speaking iof the tire engineers, and bike engineers). I am sorry I won't, as much as you want us to, accept the "word" of a VERY small proportion of guys riding a SINGLE bike model, (goldwing 1800), as "experts". Just because the guys from Duck Dynasty can shoot a gun, doesn't make them "experts" in hunting large game in Africa.
I get YOUR opinion is right and no one else, (including the engineers), have a freaking clue. Good for you. Ride away, it won't affect me, nor will affect me if you get a ticket or a denied insurance claim, (which of course will NEVER happen as this tire will never cause an issue. Even if there were a failure, while the rest of us wannabes would surely crash, whereas your two weeks experience will result in a safe outcome and of course you will be the FIRST to report a failure.
As for people saying it is a cost saving measure look at the comments made by the majority of darksiders. They are fed up with the bike tires wearing out so quickly. So let me "educate you" 10 bike tires used in say 100,000 kms, 10 X $225 = $2250. PLUS the other associated costs, wheel mounting tire tax, HST so lets call it an even $3,000. Now darksiders claim the car tires last 2 - 3 times longer so lets say 4 tires for those same 100,000 kms. 4 X $300, (using your figures of 200 - 400), = $1200 plus the associated cost = $1500, so approx one half the cost.
Glad you stopped in to educate the rest of us mere wannabes.
Any of the darksiders I have spoken to, (yes we actually talk and they don't look down upon me, instead they provide their point of view and I provide mine. I have yet to experience one of them throwing a "hissy fit" taking their ball and not playing anymore)...lol. These have told me their reason is LONGER tire life, NOT safety, NOT concern about MC tire failure. So in essence SAVINGS. But we all know you do it purely for the "science"
Along with Rob's example. I have never been kicked in the balls but I draw a "reasonable inference" that it will hurt. Why because "experts", (doctors), have said it will.
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Shaman
Well-known member
Ran into him this year on the Gap. He didn't have a darksider tire on the Wing, and he was moving at a ludicrous pace... lol
My take on it.
Biker Cop makes a valid point that just because you think something is OK it doesn't mean it will pass legal scrutiny. This could apply to more than tires.
If one was to accept that a motorcycle can not run a car tire one would have to accept that trikes and sidecars have to run motorcycle tires because they are licenced as motorcycles. Two possible exceptions are the Spyder and HD trikes as they are factory built and and the manuals may have some credibility with regards to using a specified car tire.
I'm not talking common sense, just the legal angle. Has any government sanctioned body approved car tires for trikes and hacks?
Has any car tire manufacturer stated that their tires are approved for trikes and hacks?
While I have great respect for the knowledge and skills that some members have regarding rim designs and vehicle setups I'm not familiar with the licensing procedures of modified motorcycles.
I am unfamiliar with what a person or company has to do to become a certified manufacturer of licensed motorcycles. With the exception of the HD and Canams most trikes are based on a heavy bike front end and power train attached to, typically a narrowed Mustang axle.
With the possible exception the Spyder, trikes and hacks present stability issues for purposes other than parking. Three wheel ATVs were banned over the issue but since the Spyder is a reverse trike with stability controls it is probably OK. Hacks are asymmetrical so how does one predict how a tire gets loaded. Kiting the car brings in some side loading that neither a car or motorcycle rim / tire combo will ever see in conventional use.
The greater concern is the survival of the activity of motorcycling. We are outnumbered 50:1 by cagers. We don't need to go at each other throats over full face or beanie, leather or textile, cruiser or R series.
Anecdotal evidence doesn't hold much water in the legal system but if enough anecdotal evidence is collected it may encourage certified testing which may shed new light on subjects. If the anecdotal evidence is collected at no cost to anyone but the individual involved it seems foolish to complain.
Biker Cop makes a valid point that just because you think something is OK it doesn't mean it will pass legal scrutiny. This could apply to more than tires.
If one was to accept that a motorcycle can not run a car tire one would have to accept that trikes and sidecars have to run motorcycle tires because they are licenced as motorcycles. Two possible exceptions are the Spyder and HD trikes as they are factory built and and the manuals may have some credibility with regards to using a specified car tire.
I'm not talking common sense, just the legal angle. Has any government sanctioned body approved car tires for trikes and hacks?
Has any car tire manufacturer stated that their tires are approved for trikes and hacks?
While I have great respect for the knowledge and skills that some members have regarding rim designs and vehicle setups I'm not familiar with the licensing procedures of modified motorcycles.
I am unfamiliar with what a person or company has to do to become a certified manufacturer of licensed motorcycles. With the exception of the HD and Canams most trikes are based on a heavy bike front end and power train attached to, typically a narrowed Mustang axle.
With the possible exception the Spyder, trikes and hacks present stability issues for purposes other than parking. Three wheel ATVs were banned over the issue but since the Spyder is a reverse trike with stability controls it is probably OK. Hacks are asymmetrical so how does one predict how a tire gets loaded. Kiting the car brings in some side loading that neither a car or motorcycle rim / tire combo will ever see in conventional use.
The greater concern is the survival of the activity of motorcycling. We are outnumbered 50:1 by cagers. We don't need to go at each other throats over full face or beanie, leather or textile, cruiser or R series.
Anecdotal evidence doesn't hold much water in the legal system but if enough anecdotal evidence is collected it may encourage certified testing which may shed new light on subjects. If the anecdotal evidence is collected at no cost to anyone but the individual involved it seems foolish to complain.
I agree. But I doubt we will ever see testing and certification by either bike or tire manufacturers. The market would simply be too limited to justify the expense. ALthough I seem to be against anecdotal evidence, I am not as long as BOTH sides are represented. As someone earlier pointed out, if your a darksider and pushing the issue and you experience a tire failure or rim separation, are you likely to self report it? Therefore, it "may" and I am not saying it is, (because I can't possibly know anymore than anyone else here), be skewed or biased.
That is why I would prefer to have reporting from experts. If this then supports the anecdotal evidence then the anecdotal evidence is validated.
I can report that I took Viagra for 3 weeks and I didn't have a headache, does that mean Viagra prevents headaches? Not unless there is valid scientific testing and reporting to validate my anecdotal evidence...lol That is the only reason I would advocate for engineered testing and reporting to either validate or refute the anecdotal evidence, (regardless of the issue, be it darkside, viagra or anything else).
But to suggest as Fatwing has that we should consider ONLY the anecdotal evidence and dismiss the engineers as only having "opinions", (without knowing what tests they may have conducted), is short sighted, and biased in favor of the position he holds.
Yes, we have the old fallacy of anecdotal evidence. I wear a hi-viz Aerostich suit and have never seen a rhinoceros on the roads, so obviously it acts as rhinoceros repellent. Independent testing, by disinterested individuals, and using the scientific method is the best way to obtain real evidence.
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