COVID and the housing market

[Evoex]

It's hard to argue that sanity has returned at this point. 756 Hortop in Oshawa just sold for 703K. "8 days on market, 19 showings, 1 successful open house and 3 offers resulted into $78,100 over asking and a record sale price for a 1 bedroom detached home in Oshawa.
In a cooling market, we're thrilled for our awesome seller!"

I wondered if price was driven by lot size. Nope. 53x65'. That may be the smallest lot I have seen.

HouseSigma

housesigma.com

i read your post 3x then i finally noted the 1 bedroom.

 

[GreyGhost]

i read your post 3x then i finally noted the 1 bedroom.

Time for bed Evo. I even put it in bold for you.

 

[crankcall]

I’m currently in a freehold town, 0 fees , best friend is in a freehold town however they created an owners association to look after shared space , driveway recoating and snow plow if ect. It can work if everyone knows the deal.
One challenge with freehold town, when it time to reroof your trying to wrangle 5-6 neighbours into the process . You won’t get the “Peggy’s cove” look in freeholds if you live in the right place , it sounds snobbery but 1.5m houses look like 1.5, 625k look different.
I’ve lived in subdivisions in detached housing when a guy three doors down kept his hobby race stockcar at home , fired that baby up three times a week and shook windows . Don’t miss that .


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[DownUnder]

wouldn't it be cool to have a pool in the yard?

That's exactly how it started... lol. We landed on the fiberglass as it seemed a good option and less maintenance etc, no need to drain the water each fall and refill spring, no stress about liners or concrete degrading. (Some friends liner started buldging early last year, because the backyard neighbours pool was leaking into the ground... they had to wait for them to fix their pool before they could replace the liner. It was still swimmable but looked terrible and took nearly 18 months to get sorted.)

We added a couple water features and variable speed pump/cartridge filter, gas heater, omnilogic etc etc an actual hayward rep came out and did the initial programing of everything. Kids love the fact they can ask Google to turn the water features, lights etc on and off, and I can check salt levels and schedule pump speed and times and lights, water features from the phone app.

 

[DownUnder]

Forgot to mention, the pool guys said they have customers that turn their pools into mini ice rinks in the winter.

 

[crankcall]

The pool guys love mini ice rinks , they get a few grand every spring when little Jimmie gets a decent slap shot into the fiberglass side wall , even though mom said no sticks or pucks , it’s just skating .


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[nobbie48]

The pool guys love mini ice rinks , they get a few grand every spring when little Jimmie gets a decent slap shot into the fiberglass side wall , even though mom said no sticks or pucks , it’s just skating .


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A number of years back the neighbour made a backyard rink for his hockey kid. The puck bouncing off the boards sounded so Canadian.

 

[nobbie48]

It's hard to argue that sanity has returned at this point. 756 Hortop in Oshawa just sold for 703K. "8 days on market, 19 showings, 1 successful open house and 3 offers resulted into $78,100 over asking and a record sale price for a 1 bedroom detached home in Oshawa.
In a cooling market, we're thrilled for our awesome seller!"

I wondered if price was driven by lot size. Nope. 53x65'. That may be the smallest lot I have seen.

HouseSigma

housesigma.com

How much for a one bedroom condo? Then add for a private garage and extra outdoor parking.

Maintenance fees taken care of by sweat equity instead of coin. Your choice of colours and outdoor space bigger than a sheet of plywood. The possibility of topping it to add more bedrooms.

I assume it has a basement as well. (Think storage) A friend has a very high end condo in Forest Hill and pointed out that while he could afford all the toilet paper he could ever want to stockpile he didn't have a place to store the stuff.

The worst part of a condo is the limit to what one can do to upgrade.

 

[DownUnder]

The worst part of a condo is the limit to what one can do to upgrade.

Don't forget the small talk you have to make with randoms in the elevators, and the smell of what people are cooking/smoking in the hallways... and anytime some clown pulls a fire alarm or worst yet falls asleep with a cigarette in their mouth, the stolen bikes from the parking garage etc etc. I just couldn't live in one, maybe in my older years on a beach somewhere...

 

[GreyGhost]

How much for a one bedroom condo? Then add for a private garage and extra outdoor parking.

Maintenance fees taken care of by sweat equity instead of coin. Your choice of colours and outdoor space bigger than a sheet of plywood. The possibility of topping it to add more bedrooms.

I assume it has a basement as well. (Think storage) A friend has a very high end condo in Forest Hill and pointed out that while he could afford all the toilet paper he could ever want to stockpile he didn't have a place to store the stuff.

The worst part of a condo is the limit to what one can do to upgrade.

Without a doubt its bigger than a condo. I have no idea what condos are worth in oshawa. It is a little bungalow so it could ge a decent retirement house for someone that cashed in a two-storey in the area and freed up hundreds of thousands.

 

[crankcall]

If your in a high rise with owners it’s a very different experience from a building with renters . Many renters are just not vested in the process so don’t have the same care level and commitment to the building . My moms condo has capped tbe number of units 1 person can own to slow the # of renters . It stops a guy owning a whole floor and having sway on the condo board, but you can still own up to three so it changed the problem, didn’t solve it .


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[GreyGhost]

If your in a high rise with owners it’s a very different experience from a building with renters . Many renters are just not vested in the process so don’t have the same care level and commitment to the building . My moms condo has capped tbe number of units 1 person can own to slow the # of renters . It stops a guy owning a whole floor and having sway on the condo board, but you can still own up to three so it changed the problem, didn’t solve it .


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Bigger money may have a future in coops. There is at least one in rosedale and they rule with an iron fist. No loans allowed to buy the units, age restrictions, no rentals of any kind, personal vetting of every buyer before they are allowed to purchase a unit, etc. I'm not sure if a condo could do all those things or if s coop is required for that level of control. It would be exceedingly hard for a group of people to change the character of the building as you can only own one unit. You'd need 100+ partners to move the needle much.

 

[woot]

I’m currently in a freehold town, 0 fees , best friend is in a freehold town however they created an owners association to look after shared space , driveway recoating and snow plow if ect. It can work if everyone knows the deal.
One challenge with freehold town, when it time to reroof your trying to wrangle 5-6 neighbours into the process . You won’t get the “Peggy’s cove” look in freeholds if you live in the right place , it sounds snobbery but 1.5m houses look like 1.5, 625k look different.
I’ve lived in subdivisions in detached housing when a guy three doors down kept his hobby race stockcar at home , fired that baby up three times a week and shook windows . Don’t miss that .


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How does it work if someone doesn't agree? can they opt out of the homeowner association if it is freehold?

When I went to Durham I rented a house in a neighborhood that backed onto the college and there was a "Town & Gown" committee or something like that. They called the bylaw officers because there was a loose piece of fascia on the house once. Also when we had cars parked on the lawn. Can these homeowner associations make enforceable bylaws? I feel like there are probably some houses in south Oshawa that have less then perfect maintenance or cars on the grass.

 

[GreyGhost]

How does it work if someone doesn't agree? can they opt out of the homeowner association if it is freehold?

That's where things get real ugly. I don't see how they could legally compel you to participate. The cut-eye (and worse) you would get from staying out would make you not want to live there though. Not sure how the setup would be conveyed during a sale. Prospective buyers should know what they are signing up for. They can see the cohesive look presented but wouldn't know if it was informal like crankcalls roof job or a formal agreement.

 

[backmarkerducati]

A true HOA will have their own set of rules and can enforce them through fines, liens, and even eviction if infractions eventually got serious enough. Once a property is in an HOA it is near impossible to get out.

-The good, other people can't just do whatever they want to their property, they have to follow the rules.
-The bad, you can't just do whatever you want to your property, you have to follow the rules.

 

[DownUnder]

A true HOA will have their own set of rules and can enforce them through fines, liens, and even eviction if infractions eventually got serious enough. Once a property is in an HOA it is near impossible to get out.

-The good, other people can't just do whatever they want to their property, they have to follow the rules.
-The bad, you can't just do whatever you want to your property, you have to follow the rules.

Some crazy stuff out there, have a mate in a mini gated community in Richmond Hill, he's not even allowed to change the front door lock unless it's the exact same model and color as the one already on there and everyone else's door. Not allowed to plant or do anything with his front lawn, only the landscapers can touch it. Crazy rules about guests and parking etc

 

[backmarkerducati]

Some crazy stuff out there, have a mate in a mini gated community in Richmond Hill, he's not even allowed to change the front door lock unless it's the exact same model and color as the one already on there and everyone else's door. Not allowed to plant or do anything with his front lawn, only the landscapers can touch it. Crazy rules about guests and parking etc

Yes, but as a flip side no one can paint their house in pink and purple camo, install a rusty front yard chainlink fence, place an El-Camino up on blocks in the driveway all while using their old couch as front lawn furniture... There is good and bad, personally I would never own in a HOA but I get why some people do.

A true condo on the other hand where you pay into common upkeep I don't have a huge problem with and there are lifestyle advantages, but like anything disadvantages as well.

 

[Mad Mike]

I think the rates were a much bigger factor in the housing bubble (along with money not being spent on travel), but overall inflation is harder to pin down. We're simply following the rest of the world in that regard, and so far seem to be better off than the US and UK. The UK actually cut spending (except for shady Covid deals for friends of their Conservative party, but that money disappeared to offshore tax havens). Granted, the UK is also saddled with a government that has performed so poorly on every front that it almost seems like they're creating chaos intentionally, so it's hard to use them as a metric.

Overall, we're along for the ride, as you say, but the overnight rate has to be set to match the US in some ways to make sure the Canadian dollar stays in that magic $0.75 to $0.85 bracket for exports without going too low and killing purchasing power.

I agree that cheap money was fueling house prices in most markets -- not so sure it's going to make a huge diff in the core areas of the GTA and VAN as there are still housing shortages, a good jobs market, and huge population influxes continuing to increase the already strong demand in those centers.

While housing does factor into inflation, the more significant concern to me is going to be how gov'ts handle compensation demands from the public sector - will they tow the same line as the private sector? If they widen the gap faster and further, they will further fuel inflation.

 

[Mad Mike]

Some crazy stuff out there, have a mate in a mini gated community in Richmond Hill, he's not even allowed to change the front door lock unless it's the exact same model and color as the one already on there and everyone else's door. Not allowed to plant or do anything with his front lawn, only the landscapers can touch it. Crazy rules about guests and parking etc

Condo boards are often militant about enforcing rules. Condo owners should also know that condo boards cannot make up any rules they like, the rules must be reasonable. In the case of a lockset, that would be a reasonable restriction if the condo corp retains responsibility for its maintenance -- but not if that responsibility falls on the owner.

In the case of landscaping it's a little trickier as he has no exclusive use of the -- it's a common area.

 

[GreyGhost]

Condo boards are often militant about enforcing rules. Condo owners should also know that condo boards cannot make up any rules they like, the rules must be reasonable. In the case of a lockset, that would be a reasonable restriction if the condo corp retains responsibility for its maintenance -- but not if that responsibility falls on the owner.

In the case of landscaping it's a little trickier as he has no exclusive use of the -- it's a common area.

Many many condos include architectural control provisions such as the colour and style of window coverings/blinds. They are entirely located in private space and condo is not responsible for them. I'm not sure if these provisions would stand up in court but they are in many condos. If they argue the locks are for architectural control even if they are outside of ownership by the corp, they could be treated similarly. Again, it may not be right but being the squeaky wheel telling everyone else to mind their own business doesn't work. You will quickly be driven out.