COVID and the housing market | Page 235 | GTAMotorcycle.com

COVID and the housing market

I'm trying to connect the dots. Two generations ago the average person could afford to buy a house and pay it off in a reasonable time. In the mid 1960's a tradesperson making $5000 a year could buy a house for $15,000.

If you look at trade wages they're 20 X the 1960's, or more if you hustle but the $15,000 house isn't 20 X ($300,000) it's 100 X at $1,500,000.

The other side of the coin is the number of part time minimum wage jobs. Businesses are complaining they can't get low level workers any more. Why do the businesses not wonder why their workers can't find affordable housing. They would have to increase the prices of the burger combos. Then the customers would wonder why they can't get cheap meals anymore.

How do we break the cycle?
 
nobbie48 said:
Talk to some of the supers in the 400 unit buildings. They get their door banged on 24/7 and usually miss the winning goal of a hockey game.
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It wasn't easy. It was a lot of bullcrap, arguments and 'these Polaks must be stealing from us. How can poor immigrants have a car, house, and cottage! Must be stealing!'

As a 12-15 year old kid it was awesome. I'd get paid to clean the hallways, stairwells, mowing the lawn, and cleaning the pool. It was awesome.

Nowadays a super isn't the jack of all trades...he's a guy who opens the door to trades, and makes appointments for others to fix it.

crankcall said:
Brother became super of his rental building 1st yr of Uni, rented out the other bedroom to two guys. Free apt and two guys paying rent . When somebody moved out he and I would paint the place and get $400 cash from the building owners . Usually done in one day. When they modernize the appliances, we had 30 fridges and stoves to get rid off , sold beer fridges for $100 and cottage stoves for $50 .
It was good money then.
For those willing to hustle a extra few hundred on a Saturday is easy cash .


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
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I keep saying it, but I need to do something to hustle up some extra coin and upgrade my skills. Painting seems the easiest route...but that also has every guy pretending to be painters when they want some extra cash.
 
nobbie48 said:
I'm trying to connect the dots. Two generations ago the average person could afford to buy a house and pay it off in a reasonable time. In the mid 1960's a tradesperson making $5000 a year could buy a house for $15,000.

If you look at trade wages they're 20 X the 1960's, or more if you hustle but the $15,000 house isn't 20 X ($300,000) it's 100 X at $1,500,000.

The other side of the coin is the number of part time minimum wage jobs. Businesses are complaining they can't get low level workers any more. Why do the businesses not wonder why their workers can't find affordable housing. They would have to increase the prices of the burger combos. Then the customers would wonder why they can't get cheap meals anymore.

How do we break the cycle?
Click to expand...
The GREAT RESET ... whatever the eff that is.

Or we just dust off the ol guillotine and do like the French did during their revolution.
 
nobbie48 said:
I'm trying to connect the dots. Two generations ago the average person could afford to buy a house and pay it off in a reasonable time. In the mid 1960's a tradesperson making $5000 a year could buy a house for $15,000.

If you look at trade wages they're 20 X the 1960's, or more if you hustle but the $15,000 house isn't 20 X ($300,000) it's 100 X at $1,500,000.

The other side of the coin is the number of part time minimum wage jobs. Businesses are complaining they can't get low level workers any more. Why do the businesses not wonder why their workers can't find affordable housing. They would have to increase the prices of the burger combos. Then the customers would wonder why they can't get cheap meals anymore.

How do we break the cycle?
Click to expand...
My house, a suburban bungalo in Markham on sold for $19,900 when new in 1969, mortgage interest rates were approx 9% and 4x the annual salary for a tradesman. The mortgage would be $165/mo, or about 8.25 work days worth of wages.

It sold again in 1978 $84,000 in 1978 (9 years later), mortgage @13%, payments $960. He'd have had to work 12 days to make a mortgage payment.

Today he'd need $8,000/mo to finance the whole shebang, or about 25 day's wages.
 
Mad Mike said:
My house, a suburban bungalo in Markham on sold for $19,900 when new in 1969, mortgage interest rates were approx 9% and 4x the annual salary for a tradesman. The mortgage would be $165/mo, or about 8.25 work days worth of wages.

It sold again in 1978 $84,000 in 1978 (9 years later), mortgage @13%, payments $960. He'd have had to work 12 days to make a mortgage payment.

Today he'd need $8,000/mo to finance the whole shebang, or about 25 day's wages.
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And one of the comparison factors 78 to today.... today most buyer families have two incomes vs a single income in 1978 so that 25 is now 12.5 or there abouts in day's wages with two similar incomes combined.... key term here is also buyer not everyone....families buying.

Does not help single income families but it is a factor in affordability.
 
I feel like working 60+ hours a week isn't doing me much good because no matter how much I work the price of everything is rising much faster 🤔.
 
Georg3__ said:
I feel like working 60+ hours a week isn't doing me much good because no matter how much I work the price of everything is rising much faster 🤔.
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Time for more jobs!
 
backmarkerducati said:
And one of the comparison factors 78 to today.... today most buyer families have two incomes vs a single income in 1978 so that 25 is now 12.5 or there abouts in day's wages with two similar incomes combined.... key term here is also buyer not everyone....families buying.

Does not help single income families but it is a factor in affordability.
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Do the prices rise to meet the increased incomes?
 
nobbie48 said:
Do the prices rise to meet the increased incomes?
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Oversimple answer is more or less yes.... In reality it is supply and demand and the availability of money (so interest rates play a big part), etc.

If we look at it from a monthly payment affordability and factor in dual income today vs single in the past the monthly payment affordability has not dramatically increased per household income (and it aligns with MM's example) over the last say 50 years. Recent super low interest rates means that the monthly payment covers a higher overall price so sale prices will be higher. There are many other factors (flippers, foreign investment, demand > supply, etc.) at work here but when people sit around wondering how people are paying for these houses.... but again this is not the only factor at play here.

As our rates go up expect the prices to start to come down. Tumble is a strong term but....

www.thestar.com

Home prices tumble across the GTA since February peak, with suburban townhomes leading the pack

Toronto’s core is holding onto its value better than other areas as the real estate market softens, says data from property website HouseSigma.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com

It will be like my blanket on the floor example, I mentioned long ago on here. The centre of Toronto is the middle of the blanket as it gets pulled up the rest of the blanket rises around it and the area that begins to rise increases in diameter (distance from the centre) as the middle goes up more and the areas around the middle go up.... Now when the middle of the blanket starts to go down so will the areas around it until they rest on the floor. They hit the floor first but the centre will have the biggest dollar (but maybe not percentage) drop the longer it continues to go down.....
 

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Assuming he already has fun at his job and finds other jobs that are fun in the end it means less time enjoying things beyond work (which is important in so many ways).
 
timtune said:
Assuming he already has fun at his job and finds other jobs that are fun in the end it means less time enjoying things beyond work (which is important in so many ways).
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We’ve had this dance before, you know where I stand.
 
timtune said:
Assuming he already has fun at his job and finds other jobs that are fun in the end it means less time enjoying things beyond work (which is important in so many ways).
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All depends on the person.

I'm 100% happy going to the cottage, putting my feet up, and sleeping.

My dad....we need to do this, that and the other. 'But they're all fine and nothing is wrong'

'No. This needs to be done.'
 
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