Covid and Science

Mad Mike

Well-known member
For the last 2 years there has been a lot of guidance follows science. Scientists have told us to get vaccinated and that herd immunity was achievable should we all get vaxed. Science warned about variants, we got them and were relatively well prepared to deal with them. Scientists suggested strategies to limit transmission when the public failed to follow instructions, which worked. When politics intersected with science the water got a little muddier.

Was it politicians or scientists that said Big Box, Liquor and Beer stores were more responsible than small stores at managing social distancing and capacity limits? Politicians or scientists that determined lockdowns, store & restaurant closures, & online learning were OK for school kids, but not OK for universities?

I got to thinking about all the science in motion, not just the virologist's view. What about social, mental health, and economic scientists?

At the current vaccination rates, 90%, are covered, the remaining 10% are at risk to themselves and are at similar risk as unvaccinated for spreading COVID. Where are scientists on this? Are medical scientists and politicians engaging with economists? Are scientists looking at and accurately advising on the risk that the outliers really propose?

Science has focussed on vaccine mandates, and I think they got that right -- people didn't play by the rules so things had to get heavy-handed, necessary as well. But I think science may no longer be able to justify restrictions. I fear scientists may not be looking at the whole situation and recommending better societal solutions as the facts change. As a result we have a lot of unhappy campers making noise and blocking bridges. These are not just the rebellious anti-vaxers, it appears support is growing as the general population tires of COVID restrictions.

Scientists, what do you say?
 
Needs an edit.
 
Not a scientist in any way shape or form, but science and new information changes and evolves. So sure, science told us many things and the vast majority of people followed through.

But science stated that the vaccines would protect everyone...they don't. We're still ready to spread to others even though we are vaccinated and non-vaccinated. That's a big one because the point of lockdowns was to protect everyone in order to protect the healthcare system from collapse.

As more and more people got vaccinated, the vast majority went from 'lockdowns for all' to protect the greater good to 'well...we did our part and you're still locking us down again? F-you.'

Also, considering the speed and magnitude of the issue I don't think we've had an opportunity to study such an event at such a scale before. So of course information will come in that was not previously known.

I'm all for science and protecting the greater good, but if the vaccines don't stop the spread to others...how long can we expect people to be locked up for no real reason? The pushback is starting, and with restrictions being removed all around the world I expect that any further / next lockdown will be pushed back hard. I know I won't follow it. We did everything asked of us to date.

The problem isn't the science, it's the politicians. The minute that someone figured out they could use COVID for political gain, the game was lost for the general population. We became a tool, a means to an end to the politicians. And this is where (I believe) the majority of our strife has started. The politicians started gaming the systems and turning people against one another as they do their thing. 'Never let a crisis go to waste' or something like that.

Someone decided that LCBO/Pot shops was a necessity to prevent alcoholics from getting injured / hurt / withdrawal symptoms and to release the strain from the system...sure I'm game, because I enjoy my booze (not anymore...long story).

The closing of mom and pop shops while Walmart, Canadian Tire, Home Depot and all the big box 'essential' stores were open was a ridiculous decision that I can only assume was driven by greed, and politicians having too close of ties to the money. They played with the definition of 'essential' as long as they could. Doug himself said that Walmart told him it would be 'too difficult to cordon off the non-essentials'...BS. 100% BS because they did it a week later.

There were a lot of things done right during this time, but a whole lot of bad / idiotic decisions were made also.
 
I'm all for science and protecting the greater good, but if the vaccines don't stop the spread to others...how long can we expect people to be locked up for no real reason? The pushback is starting, and with restrictions being removed all around the world I expect that any further / next lockdown will be pushed back hard. I know I won't follow it. We did everything asked of us to date.
I still believe mental health will take a big hit from what has transpired in the last two years.

10 years time we will see how much damage was done.
 
I still believe mental health will take a big hit from what has transpired in the last two years.

10 years time we will see how much damage was done.
I agree. I think the next 10-20 years will show us the results of these lockdowns and their impacts on mental health, especially that of young children / adolescents as social interaction is extremely important to their well being and mental health.

Let's also hope that there's no long term negative effects from the vaccines as well, as we do not have that data simply because there's been no time yet...
 
Science says 3 shots give you the best coverage for omicron. Vaccines lower transmission and hospitalization rates very effectively (ignore the noise from idiots and look at real data). Masks work.

Science also says we are nearly out of this regarding this particular variant and to lower the chances of another variant the above needs to be done (worldwide). We aren’t there right now and being cavalier about things has a chance to set us back.

I’m cautiously optimistic we will have a normalish summer. Also to be clear, if we do it’s because so many stepped up to get vaccinated.
 
What happened here is, politicians decided to pick and choose what guidelines they were going to listen to.

A lot of their approaches were not based in science or following the experts' suggestions. We had half lockdowns, measures that targeted the wrong groups and the wrong business sectors and more importantly, our most important "soldiers" were called heroes but not paid accordingly

The sociological aspect of it was widely ignored, whether it be between through the cognitive bias and dissonance that was/is happening. We ignored the fact that sociologically speaking it's known some people won't get vaccinated, which then made it a war against a fact that is widely known in those circles, and we're still beating that dead horse

In the end, it's not just those groups of unvaccinated people that will suffer but the bigger majority that needed the afterschool sports, or the friend gatherings, or just normal in-person school. But once again we trusted politicians to do a job that theyre not that well suited for as theyre pandering for votes; not necessarily for the changes that will get us out of it the least unscathed
 
What happened here is, politicians decided to pick and choose what guidelines they were going to listen to.

A lot of their approaches were not based in science or following the experts' suggestions. We had half lockdowns, measures that targeted the wrong groups and the wrong business sectors and more importantly, our most important "soldiers" were called heroes but not paid accordingly

The sociological aspect of it was widely ignored, whether it be between through the cognitive bias and dissonance that was/is happening. We ignored the fact that sociologically speaking it's known some people won't get vaccinated, which then made it a war against a fact that is widely known in those circles, and we're still beating that dead horse

In the end, it's not just those groups of unvaccinated people that will suffer but the bigger majority that needed the afterschool sports, or the friend gatherings, or just normal in-person school. But once again we trusted politicians to do a job that theyre not that well suited for as theyre pandering for votes; not necessarily for the changes that will get us out of it the least unscathed

Politicians make decisions based on polling/survey numbers….scientists make decisions based on available experimental data. Those two are not the same. To use a popular phrase, you can’t “hold the line” on something that is working when a politician sees his polling numbers drop and suddenly changes everything to adjust those popularity numbers,
 
Politicians make decisions based on polling/survey numbers….scientists make decisions based on available experimental data. Those two are not the same. To use a popular phrase, you can’t “hold the line” on something that is working when a politician sees his polling numbers drop and suddenly changes everything to adjust those popularity numbers,
Bingo!

And that's what's frustrated me the most this whole time. I guess we f**ked around and found out.
 
An old friend now deceased was home schooled right through high school in the deep interior of BC. He wrote his university entrance exams and got into UBC , he ended up a nuclear scientist with atomic energy canada. He did have a sister growing up.

He never got arrested or wound up living in a shelter or beat his wife, so this kids will all be wrecked thing is maybe a stretch , maybe some parents could work just a bit harder to amuse and entertain and educate thier own kids. If covid has shown us anything its the disconnect in families and the ability to parent.
 
An old friend now deceased was home schooled right through high school in the deep interior of BC. He wrote his university entrance exams and got into UBC , he ended up a nuclear scientist with atomic energy canada. He did have a sister growing up.

He never got arrested or wound up living in a shelter or beat his wife, so this kids will all be wrecked thing is maybe a stretch , maybe some parents could work just a bit harder to amuse and entertain and educate thier own kids. If covid has shown us anything its the disconnect in families and the ability to parent.
Well someone's gotta pay the bills and the mortgage.

Not everyone can live in deep interior BC where it might be a lot cheaper to live, dare i say, on one income.
If you live in the GTA, most likely both parents work full-time jobs. And that's if parents are still together, otherwise it becomes another level of shetshow.
In the past, while i was working at customer service for different financial products at a bank, i realized that a lot of Canadians have a low levels of financial literacy, that's the bulk of what kept me (and hundreds of other customer service reps) employed there back in the day. Half the owners of credit cards don't pay them in full. Most people don't have emergency funds. A lot of people will buy a house based on their pre-approval amount, not necessarily what they have budgeted. Leasing/financing brand new cars over 7 years...Heck having to go over my dad's finances for the past 15 years, when we did the POA, it was a mess, and that guy has a PhD.

All this poor usage of financial tools shows me that a lot of families aren't ready to be a single-income family, especially due to mismanagement of funds. Without someone at home with the kids, you can't have all-day parenting.
 
Well someone's gotta pay the bills and the mortgage.

Not everyone can live in deep interior BC where it might be a lot cheaper to live, dare i say, on one income.
If you live in the GTA, most likely both parents work full-time jobs. And that's if parents are still together, otherwise it becomes another level of shetshow.
In the past, while i was working at customer service for different financial products at a bank, i realized that a lot of Canadians have a low levels of financial literacy, that's the bulk of what kept me (and hundreds of other customer service reps) employed there back in the day. Half the owners of credit cards don't pay them in full. Most people don't have emergency funds. A lot of people will buy a house based on their pre-approval amount, not necessarily what they have budgeted. Leasing/financing brand new cars over 7 years...Heck having to go over my dad's finances for the past 15 years, when we did the POA, it was a mess, and that guy has a PhD.

All this poor usage of financial tools shows me that a lot of families aren't ready to be a single-income family, especially due to mismanagement of funds. Without someone at home with the kids, you can't have all-day parenting.
Change jobs.

The difference between doing what we want and doing what we have to! 🙂
 
One fallacy is to believe that 'science' is one single blob, where all of the 'scientists' agree. An epidemiologist is going to have a very specific (although likely accurate) view of a problem, while an economist is going to have a different view. Both views can be true, but explaining the possible interactions between those two views to the general public is almost impossible.

Consider that by some measures (source picked at random), half of the Canadian population can't read at a high school level. Consider that A&W's third-pounder burger failed because people didn't understand that a 1/3 of a pound is larger than 1/4 of a pound: "3 is smaller than 4, why are you charging more money for less meat?"

Now try to explain exponential growth to any of those people. Or the difference between correlation and causation. Or the difference between absolute and relative risk: "This thing has double the risk of this other thing!", when the risk of either thing is .001% and .002%.
 
enough of "Covid" already.
who knows how many days till we ride? early or late spring this year?
I'll just asked a scientist.

Hardy Riders: first good day: Tues March 1st. Daily riding should start around Mar 19.

Posers: April 20

Pirates: May 20
 
Change jobs.

The difference between doing what we want and doing what we have to! 🙂

Not everyone has that luxury. My wife luckily is self employed and didn't get hit TOO hard by it as she was able to adjust her client base annnnnd a part time data entry job literally fell out of the sky for her as well. But if she didn't know her boss (who is a friend) this well and the boss wasn't flexible she wouldn't be able to do that data entry job.

I remain unaffected after 2 years of WFH.

But a lot of people aren't in my position or her position. Not everyone gets to work from home. Not everyone can get a job at the same salary level to cover housing costs just by sending out resumes. Or find a unicorn job that allows you to take care of your kids while you work!? Half marriages end up in divorce and thats a whole lot of single parents who have to "wing" it. Heck even if you want to downsize, the market is so ridiculous that you probably wouldn't be improving your financial situation. These are f**ked up times lol
 
Change jobs.

The difference between doing what we want and doing what we have to! 🙂
Unfortunately not always so easy. It's kind of like saying 'It's only money'...which is mainly said by people with lots of money! LoL

Changing jobs is great, but there are a lot of variables that come into play, salary being only one aspect of it. Commute, benefits, hours, etc all have to come into play.

My wife keeps saying 'let's sell this place, and move to Burlington' ... her clients are primarily in Burlington...great for her...my office just moved to the other side of town. So I'd go from 60km on the 401...to 100-120km on the 403/401 combo...no thanks.

Not only that, with my work...the next job could be further east...could be north...could be west...who knows.
 

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