Coronavirus

[Mad Mike]

I believe they can operate at 50% capacity or something something.

either lock the damn thing down, or don’t.

Can’t have it both ways. But find a way to support those you keep from working to survive during the time. Not everyone is able to save a few months emergency funds....by choice or circumstance.

I can understand allowing big box stores to stay open. First, we all need provisions, and since they have everything you need in one store this can minimize store visits and contact. Next, big box stores like Loblaws, Walmart and Home Depot are usually 100,000sq with 20+ foot ceilings and wide aisled. By design they are well ventilated an have a huge air volume -- 4000cubic feet of air per person and plenty of space for distancing, and entrance/exits that facilitate one way spaced traffic. They are limited to somewhere around 450 shoppers in a 100,000sq space. Compare that to a deli or bakery that has a 1000sq' retail area -- to provide the same volume of air per person, you could fit 2 staff members and 1/2 a shopper.

I feel for small businesses, they are going to take a heavy hit. I don't see this as a matter of fairness -- life isn't always fair -- it's a matter of public health.

 

[d4rktrooper788]

I think the lockdowns should be by the sampling zones. Brampton is a clusterfuck, York Region has a few messy communities, Concord, Cornell, Milliken, and Woodbridge, North York, North Etobicoke, Malton, & East Scarborough are a mess. I'd prefer to see these places in complete lockdown, like they did in Australia and many European cities. Close all businesses, stay home, curfew, can't leave your neighborhood.

The surrounding communities that have done a good job but are in the same city or municipality should net be penalized for the bad behaviour of a few.

As of Nov 15:

Postal Sample Area	Community	Percent positivity
L6P	Brampton	20.1%
L4T	Malton	18.6%
L4W	NE Mississauga	18.5%
L6R	Brampton	16.9%
M4H	Thorncliffe - Toronto	16.3%
L6X	Brampton	15.3%
M9V	North York MT Olive, Smithfield Thistletown	14.8%
M1X	Scarborough - Malvern	14.7%
M3N	Jane & FinchNorth York	14.7%
L6Y	Brampton	14.3%
M9L	Mississauga Humber Summit	13.5%
L6T	Brampton	13.3%
L7A	Brampton	13.2%
M6L	North Etobicoke	13.2%
L6W	Brampton	13.0%
L6S	Brampton	12.6%
M1B	Scarborough - Malvern	12.6%
L6V	Brampton	12.2%
L6Z	Brampton	11.9%
L7B	Nobleton	11.9%
L4H	Woodbridge	11.8%
L5V	Mississauga - East Credit	11.7%
M1G	Scarborough - East Morningside	11.6%
L4K	Concord	11.6%
M9W	Etobicoke - Clairville Rexdale	11.1%
L3S	Markham - Milliken	11.0%
M3J	North York - YorkU Heights	11.0%
M4A	Victoria Villiage, BermondseyNorth York North York	10.6%
M3L	North York Jane & Sheppard	10.3%
L7C	Caledon	10.3%
L6B	Markham - Cornell	10.0%

Percent positivity is a useless metric though, unless the number of tests conducted is standardized per capita. If you only test 20 people and they all test positive (nursing homes, for example), then your positivity rate is 100%.

In fact I'd argue percent positivity is entirely useless right now, because people have to show symptoms before getting a test. So the percent positivity number is a percentage of an already smaller subset of the population who is feeling "unwell".

 

[Zoodles95]

I can understand allowing big box stores to stay open. First, we all need provisions, and since they have everything you need in one store this can minimize store visits and contact. Next, big box stores like Loblaws, Walmart and Home Depot are usually 100,000sq with 20+ foot ceilings and wide aisled. By design they are well ventilated an have a huge air volume -- 4000cubic feet of air per person and plenty of space for distancing, and entrance/exits that facilitate one way spaced traffic. They are limited to somewhere around 450 shoppers in a 100,000sq space. Compare that to a deli or bakery that has a 1000sq' retail area -- to provide the same volume of air per person, you could fit 2 staff members and 1/2 a shopper.

I feel for small businesses, they are going to take a heavy hit. I don't see this as a matter of fairness -- life isn't always fair -- it's a matter of public health.

Yuppers; not fair.

We are shutting down small businesses and limiting indoor gatherings to 5 or less. Yet, I presently have more than 5 maskless people on my bus. One is coughing up a lung currently while another is doing a pathetic job of "covertly" drinking his beer. The empty cans rolling around the bus are a dead giveaway.

Hundreds of buses currently operating here alone and my experience is not unique. Extrapolate that over the province; let alone the country. It is insanity that this is not being addressed universally and decisively.

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[DownUnder]

I can understand allowing big box stores to stay open. First, we all need provisions, and since they have everything you need in one store this can minimize store visits and contact. Next, big box stores like Loblaws, Walmart and Home Depot are usually 100,000sq with 20+ foot ceilings and wide aisled. By design they are well ventilated an have a huge air volume -- 4000cubic feet of air per person and plenty of space for distancing, and entrance/exits that facilitate one way spaced traffic. They are limited to somewhere around 450 shoppers in a 100,000sq space. Compare that to a deli or bakery that has a 1000sq' retail area -- to provide the same volume of air per person, you could fit 2 staff members and 1/2 a shopper.

I feel for small businesses, they are going to take a heavy hit. I don't see this as a matter of fairness -- life isn't always fair -- it's a matter of public health.

Wouldnt it be beneficial to have MORE stores open so that people are more spread out though. Instead of 2000 people visiting a walmart in a day, you could have 1200 at wall mart and a hundred or so spread out over a bunch of delis/corner stores etc? Its tough to juggle, but the fact this virus is killing small business and the middle class while big business and upper class is becoming filthy rich is concerning for society.

 

[GreyGhost]

I think the lockdowns should be by the sampling zones. Brampton is a clusterfuck, York Region has a few messy communities, Concord, Cornell, Milliken, and Woodbridge, North York, North Etobicoke, Malton, & East Scarborough are a mess. I'd prefer to see these places in complete lockdown, like they did in Australia and many European cities. Close all businesses, stay home, curfew, can't leave your neighborhood.

The surrounding communities that have done a good job but are in the same city or municipality should net be penalized for the bad behaviour of a few.

As of Nov 15:

Postal Sample Area	Community	Percent positivity
L6P	Brampton	20.1%
L4T	Malton	18.6%
L4W	NE Mississauga	18.5%
L6R	Brampton	16.9%
M4H	Thorncliffe - Toronto	16.3%
L6X	Brampton	15.3%
M9V	North York MT Olive, Smithfield Thistletown	14.8%
M1X	Scarborough - Malvern	14.7%
M3N	Jane & FinchNorth York	14.7%
L6Y	Brampton	14.3%
M9L	Mississauga Humber Summit	13.5%
L6T	Brampton	13.3%
L7A	Brampton	13.2%
M6L	North Etobicoke	13.2%
L6W	Brampton	13.0%
L6S	Brampton	12.6%
M1B	Scarborough - Malvern	12.6%
L6V	Brampton	12.2%
L6Z	Brampton	11.9%
L7B	Nobleton	11.9%
L4H	Woodbridge	11.8%
L5V	Mississauga - East Credit	11.7%
M1G	Scarborough - East Morningside	11.6%
L4K	Concord	11.6%
M9W	Etobicoke - Clairville Rexdale	11.1%
L3S	Markham - Milliken	11.0%
M3J	North York - YorkU Heights	11.0%
M4A	Victoria Villiage, BermondseyNorth York North York	10.6%
M3L	North York Jane & Sheppard	10.3%
L7C	Caledon	10.3%
L6B	Markham - Cornell	10.0%

That's awfully complicated and I'm not sure it is legally possible. All geographic measures I have seen so far were by health unit. I haven't seen anybody implement a postal code lockdown. You'd have the secondary problem of very very few people live and work in the same postal code. You'd have a lot of movement in and out of the lockdown zones for employment (or alternative a lot of businesses in and out of the zone with staffing issues).

These long half-ass "lockdowns" are dumb. They aren't locking down anything. They are making life annoying and the vast majority of the morons will just drive outside their zone and continue to spread the dumb.

 

[Mad Mike]

Percent positivity is a useless metric though, unless the number of tests conducted is standardized per capita. If you only test 20 people and they all test positive (nursing homes, for example), then your positivity rate is 100%.

In fact I'd argue percent positivity is entirely useless right now, because people have to show symptoms before getting a test. So the percent positivity number is a percentage of an already smaller subset of the population who is feeling "unwell".

Useless? Take a basic stats course and bone up a little on the the way public health tracks and monitors hotspots.

You would be correct if we were testing small samples like individual schools then comparing them against one another - the number denominator too low to be trusty. But we know that is not the case as we know the positives are significant in numbers to produce accurate results.

These should be corroborated soon with sewage tests, a pretty easy way to study small urban areas.

Toronto testing sewage for coronavirus concentrations | Watch News Videos Online

Watch Toronto testing sewage for coronavirus concentrations Video Online, on GlobalNews.ca

globalnews.ca

 

[ToSlow]

Fok i hate the liberal government, being in a pandemic and these asshats don't won't to answer any question to what is the roll out of the vaccine going to look like, they have no answers to who is going to be the first to get the vaccine.

 

[J_F]

Drugs and vaccines for COVID-19 - Canada.ca

How Health Canada is addressing clinical trials of drugs and vaccines, its expedited review process and the Special Access Program to find therapies to prevent or treat COVID-19.

www.canada.ca

 

[ToSlow]

More opioid deaths out west than covid deaths. wonder if this will see the news?

 

[d4rktrooper788]

Useless? Take a basic stats course and bone up a little on the the way public health tracks and monitors hotspots.

You would be correct if we were testing small samples like individual schools then comparing them against one another - the number denominator too low to be trusty. But we know that is not the case as we know the positives are significant in numbers to produce accurate results.

These should be corroborated soon with sewage tests, a pretty easy way to study small urban areas.

Toronto testing sewage for coronavirus concentrations | Watch News Videos Online

Watch Toronto testing sewage for coronavirus concentrations Video Online, on GlobalNews.ca

globalnews.ca

And where in your table did they provide numbers for the denominators, or provide per capita test positivity? One postal code could have triple the population of the adjacent one. One postal code could have mostly young people, who are less likely to go get a COVID test because their symptoms are milder and they just "ride it out". What if one postal code has a healthy general population, but lots of LTC homes with people testing positive? They will have a high positivity rate which doesn't paint an accurate picture.

All percent positivity tells us is: of a % of people who felt unwell (and got tested), this number of people had COVID. Without any adjustment for population size, age, and number tests conducted, the percent itself is meaningless.

 

[Baggsy]

The promised supply of vaccine for March seems to be far short of my estimated demand.

 

[pfbmgd]

I feel for small businesses, they are going to take a heavy hit. I don't see this as a matter of fairness -- life isn't always fair -- it's a matter of public health.

I wonder if you would feel the same if you were losing your life savings .

 

[Trials]

If your small business is losing money because of the pandemic, now might be a good time to diversify.

 

[Riceburner]

I personally don't own or work for a small business, but my family members do. Fortunately the landlord is also a family member. Taking a big hit....but that is what we are in now. Sucks, but it is what it is. I might as well retire.

 

[BigEvilDoer]

More opioid deaths out west than covid deaths. wonder if this will see the news?

You need to actually start googling for things before you start making claims.
This has been covered many times, even as for as being on the BBC!!!

Opioid epidemic: The other public health crisis killing Canadians

Since March, Canada has rushed to contain the virus. But some life-saving measures are killing Canadians.

www.bbc.com

Now, here's the crux of your argument - opioid deaths are caused by addiction, and generally are self-inflicted (yes, they need help to get past their addictions - no argument there) and are non-contagious... You won't see people dying just because they were in near proximity to someone who was a junkie.

Coronavirus on the other hand, is *NOT* self inflicted (unless you're a proper idiot and attend "Covid" parties etc) and is contagious.
That's the difference.

 

[Trials]

Fok i hate the liberal government, being in a pandemic and these asshats don't won't to answer any question to what is the roll out of the vaccine going to look like, they have no answers to who is going to be the first to get the vaccine.

Isn't that a medical question
and doesn't it kind of depend on the government having the vaccine in hand before they could answer it :|

 

[ToSlow]

You need to actually start googling for things before you start making claims.
This has been covered many times, even as for as being on the BBC!!!

Opioid epidemic: The other public health crisis killing Canadians

Since March, Canada has rushed to contain the virus. But some life-saving measures are killing Canadians.

www.bbc.com

Now, here's the crux of your argument - opioid deaths are caused by addiction, and generally are self-inflicted (yes, they need help to get past their addictions - no argument there) and are non-contagious... You won't see people dying just because they were in near proximity to someone who was a junkie.

Coronavirus on the other hand, is *NOT* self inflicted (unless you're a proper idiot and attend "Covid" parties etc) and is contagious.
That's the difference.

my tv runs off an antenna so i got no access to your cable channels, i didn't see it reported on Canadian tv news channels. I should have explained that in my first post.

 

[BigEvilDoer]

my tv runs off an antenna so i got no access to your cable channels, i didn't see it reported on Canadian tv news channels. I should have explained that in my first post.

Wasn't off a tv... you'll notice I provided a hyperlink for easy viewing on your interwebs....

 

[GreyGhost]

And this is why this will never end without a widely used effective vaccine. Facepalm.

Bookstores want to be declared an essential service during a pandemic.

I say, any retail store that wants to be declared essential should be required to publicly list in detail the harm that will occur to people if they are forced to close. Laid off employees doesn't count, there is government support for that. How many people will get sick because bookstores are closed? (zero). How many people will have expensive damage to their house or car because bookstores are closed? (zero). How many people will not be able to get to work because bookstore are closed? (zero). Will the businesses lose money? Undoubtedly. Will some employees lose money? Undoubtedly. Economic harm cannot be the bar otherwise every single business can use the same excuse to avoid lockdown. By publicly posting specific harms that will occur, the public can decide if the claims are legitimate or their money should be spent elsewhere to let the idiotic money grubbing company collapse.

Indigo, Penguin Random House want Ontario to deem bookstores essential

Two of the Canadian literary industry's biggest brands are calling on the Ontario government to designate bookstores as essential services - even as COVID-19 cases continue to surge.

www.cp24.com

"Retailer Indigo Books & Music Inc. and publisher Penguin Random House Canada both say bookstores should be allowed to remain open as COVID-19 restrictions are tightened because they provide resources that educate and contribute positively to communities coping with the pandemic."

 

[Scuba Steve]

The #s are messed anyway I know multiple people who are fairly certain they have it but aren't going to bother getting a test as the provincial gov has made it too much of a pain to bother with unless you need it for some reason.

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