Clayton Rivet death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

[ZX600]

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Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Whatever happened to applying the brakes and coming to a full stop?

Oh wait.. going way too fast to stop safely.

Whatever happened to using common sense to "serve and protect" and not cause harm ?

We all know Police officers always act in the best interest of the public

[video=youtube;4sFALehnfHU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sFALehnfHU[/video]

 

[SweetOnion]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

I really don't understand how anyone can question how the rider was on the opposite side of the road. If someone pulls out in front of me, and is blocking the entire right side of the road... I am going to go left. Not sure about the rest of you....

So if the road is straight, and the rider is on the far side of it, do the math. Not saying who is at fault or who's not at fault... I'm just saying there should be no question as to it being perfectly normal for the rider to be over there, if he is avoiding an obstacle.

 

[MarcosSantiago]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Whatever happened to using common sense to "serve and protect" and not cause harm ?

We all know Police officers always act in the best interest of the public

[video= [URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sFALehnfHU[/URL] [/video]

Ouch!!! All that risk just to write a speeding ticket.

I saw once something similar, and I posted it here, a few years ago - the officer jumped on the lane at the last minute and was almost run over by a car going approx. 80 kph. (speed limit was 60 I believe).

 

[Paul1000RR]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Yes IF the officer placed his cruiser in a position that left the rider NO way to avoid then that is wrong. VERY few of you have ever, (as I have worked as police officer), you have MILLISECONDS to make a decision. These decisions can lead to a life altering or life ending result.

I can assure you this officer didn't go on shift that evening saying, "goodness I hope someone dies tonight" Now having lived in Keswick for many years I am familiar with the road. The cruiser could NOT have completely blocked both lanes completely. There would have been enough space for a skilled rider, riding at a responsible speed to have avoided the cruiser. BUT for me to suggest that was an option is as silly as the poster who said a single bullet to a "non lethal" part of the body by police was an option in one of the other cases. Forget what you see in the movies.

Now having said that, posters have also said the officer placed "the public in danger" by, (IF he did positioning his cruiser on the road the way he did. This is not true. It placed the rider in danger. Now seeing as everyone likes to make assumptions, assume that the officer had let the rider pass pulled a quick turn and began a pursuit. The rider takes off to run, (which given his bravdo on FB is not out of the question). The rider then collides with another vehicle and kills a family of say 4. The officer would have been crucified, for pursuing the rider. But there still would have been a tragedy.

I realize that he was your friend and it is natural to try to place blame upon others and believe your friend did nothing wrong, I am sure I would do the exact same thing. But we have to be honest, the force of the collision clearly shows that your friends bike was traveling no where near the posted limit on that road.

NO ONE deserves to die, but sometimes people do things which contribute to the seriousness of the situation. You say the rider "didn't ride beyond his ability" well I would assert in this case he rode in a manner which made it impossible for him to stop or at least slow to a speed which may have been survivable. In this case it was a police cruiser, but it could have been a motorist making a left turn or u turn, the result would have likely been the same.

But let's not waiting for the accident reconstructionist to say how fast the rider was going or any other contributing factors. Let's blame the police as we as citizens never do any wrong it HAS to be the police all the time.

Wow, and you were a cop? :lmao:

I love the speculation and hypothesizing, that the officer should have let the bike pass safely then turned around and pursued. No ONE here knows how fast the bike was traveling. If the officer wasn't using radar then a fairly safe assumption would be it was traveling at a rate of speed the officer could immediately tell it was speeding. Again folks this isn't hollywood. If the bike was traveling at say 100 km/h and the cruiser was doing 80 km, do have any idea how far that bike would travel before the cruiser got turned around? That is assuming the rider didn't pin it when he saw the cruiser turning around.

So the officer begins a high speed pursuit, and the bike crashes and the rider is killed, because of his attempt to flee and speed. People would still be saying he should have been charged with murder. So in no way is there a positive outcome.. The ONLY positive outcome for the officer would have been if he could have been sure NO ONE withnessed the bike blow by him speeding, and that the rider didn't crash and kill himself or others. Sure JAMUS you read a licence plate on a speeding bike at night... good luck with that one. It is nearly impossible in a well lit area with great visibility at night. I know most bike pursuits I have been involved with you can't see the plate to start and do you think the rider would slow enough to permit it to be read??

Again I am NOT defending the officers actions I prefer to wait till those with the FACTS, comment. They can determine the speed of both vehicles from any skid marks, within a very small range.

It was called a "head on collision" as that is what it is. Most assume that means front to front but if at the last second one or both vehicles swerved it would still be classified as a head on.

Given the riders, self admitted speeds does anyone here think the second he saw that cruiser he considered pulling over to wait for his ticket? If you were on a dark back road late at night would you???? Exactly.

It is a tragedy, for EVERYONE involved.

But am I ready to hang the cop, not till all the facts are presented. I am sure there will be more than enough contributing factors that makes this tragic.

So the solution is to pull out in front of the guy and kill him?

I really don't understand how anyone can question how the rider was on the opposite side of the road. If someone pulls out in front of me, and is blocking the entire right side of the road... I am going to go left. Not sure about the rest of you....

So if the road is straight, and the rider is on the far side of it, do the math. Not saying who is at fault or who's not at fault... I'm just saying there should be no question as to it being perfectly normal for the rider to be over there, if he is avoiding an obstacle.

+1

Its easy for people to say silly things like "there was plenty of room to go around", but when you're in that moment when its life or death a lot of people will slam on the brakes and try to slow down.


For all those that support what the cop did lemme ask you a question, would the cop have done the same thing if a tractor trailer was going the other way?

 

[beverage]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

This just in: The cop was simply doing a u-turn to respond to another call and misjudged the closing rate of the motorcycle due to the conditions (night time, single headlight on bike making it difficult to judge rate of speed, and excessive motorcycle speed). There was no malicious intent toward the rider whatsoever.

Okay, I made that up, but since everyone else is making up whatever stories they want I thought I'd join in.

Mods should lock this thread because it's just getting out of hand. Respect the fallen. Who are we to judge? We weren't there and we don't know what transpired.

 

[Paul1000RR]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

This just in: The cop was simply doing a u-turn to respond to another call and misjudged the closing rate of the motorcycle due to the conditions (night time, single headlight on bike making it difficult to judge rate of speed, and excessive motorcycle speed). There was no malicious intent toward the rider whatsoever.

Okay, I made that up, but since everyone else is making up whatever stories they want I thought I'd join in.

Mods should lock this thread because it's just getting out of hand. Respect the fallen. Who are we to judge? We weren't there and we don't know what transpired.

Shut down the entire forum, no need for anyone to talk about anything. The people in charge will tell us what happened and what to think

 

[Two50noob]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Shut down the entire forum, no need for anyone to talk about anything. The people in charge will tell is what happened and what to think

FINALY! will i just get emails or will there be a website that we go to to get our opinions?

 

[jeffjones]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

I really don't understand how anyone can question how the rider was on the opposite side of the road. If someone pulls out in front of me, and is blocking the entire right side of the road... I am going to go left. Not sure about the rest of you....

Of course if someone is in the right lane, most would swerve left (Or brake), but the cop car AND rider where on the left side of the road when they collided (Leaving the right lane wide open). Thats the part I don't understand.

 

[Dresden]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Very poor judgement on the part of the officer (if the story about blocking him in is true).
Factoring ego's into the equation, I wouldn't be a stretch to imagine the officer was going to do 'what it takes' to get 'him'.. and he did; if that is the indeed the case, it's murder.

 

[Brian P]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Seems if any car/ rider had sped away and caused a death, we would likely be posting why the cop never stopped the speeder, can't win..

it's obvious cops have to make instant decisions which often ends badly and often overkill

The bike getting in a collision subsequent to not having been stopped for speeding, and killing someone as a result, is a low-probability event.

Killing the rider as a result of putting the police cruiser in the rider's path and in such a way that the rider can't stop in time, turns that into a 100%-probabiity event.

Also, take a look at the damage to that police cruiser, compare it to the damage to the Honda Civic involved in the Quebec save-the-ducklings crash (~ 110 km/h impact speed), and compare it to other photos on-line in which it's known that the impact speed was very high. I don't know enough about the subject to put firm numbers to it but this was NOT a 200 km/h impact (the bike would have ended up IN the car or even THROUGH the car) and probably not even a 100 km/h impact. Obviously the rider got *some* braking done but not enough.

For the police car to have been hit in the left rear door and the impact to have been in the opposite-direction lanes and not in an intersection (it was near an intersection but not in it?) and the car not being long enough to block all of the lanes sounds exceedingly odd. Plausible (and ugly) scenario number 1 is that the police car was approaching from the opposite direction then swung left into the path of the bike, the rider swerved to the opposite-direction lanes, the car turned back into the path of the rider. Perhaps there is another scenario that would explain this but I can't think of it at the moment.

 

[casacrow]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Out of respect for Clay, this thread should not be locked. Conversation should continue.

Speeding or not, Clay was killed by someone on our payroll. We owe it to Clay to ensure that the officer is properly disciplined.

For those in doubt, I welcome you to join me at the impact site. I've run through every imaginable scenario. I even placed my car on the road where the officers car was. Aside from mechanical failure or Aliens dropping his car from the sky, the officer's decisions and actions took Clay's life.

 

[jeffjones]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

The bike getting in a collision subsequent to not having been stopped for speeding, and killing someone as a result, is a low-probability event.

Killing the rider as a result of putting the police cruiser in the rider's path and in such a way that the rider can't stop in time, turns that into a 100%-probabiity event.

Also, take a look at the damage to that police cruiser, compare it to the damage to the Honda Civic involved in the Quebec save-the-ducklings crash (~ 110 km/h impact speed), and compare it to other photos on-line in which it's known that the impact speed was very high. I don't know enough about the subject to put firm numbers to it but this was NOT a 200 km/h impact (the bike would have ended up IN the car or even THROUGH the car) and probably not even a 100 km/h impact. Obviously the rider got *some* braking done but not enough.

For the police car to have been hit in the right door and the impact to have been in the opposite-direction lanes and not in an intersection (it was near an intersection but not in it?) and the car not being long enough to block all of the lanes sounds exceedingly odd. Plausible (and ugly) scenario number 1 is that the police car was approaching from the opposite direction then swung left into the path of the bike, the rider swerved to the opposite-direction lanes, the car reversed into the path of the rider. Perhaps there is another scenario that would explain this but I can't think of it at the moment.

From the pictures it looks like the rider hit the rear drivers side door, not the passenger. Thats the puzzling part, where was the cop coming from?

 

[Brian P]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

From the pictures it looks like the rider hit the rear drivers side door, not the passenger. Thats the puzzling part, where was the cop coming from?

Yes, fixed my earlier post.

 

[beverage]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

From the pictures it looks like the rider hit the rear drivers side door, not the passenger. Thats the puzzling part, where was the cop coming from?

Which makes me wonder if he was ahead of the bike heading in the same direction and was in the process of doing a u-turn when struck by the bike. Of course, I haven't seen the crash site or skid pattern ...

 

[SweetOnion]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

My bad, thought impact was on passenger side for some reason. I could see the uturn possibility or just pulling out from same direction

 

[JFD]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

I dislike rallying threads like this.

If the dude had died running into a kid or something, it'd be a totally different type of thread.

In the very end, there's those that are for speeding, and those that are not. The votes would change depending on circumstances - this is certain.

 

[hedo2002]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Ok there is a factor that no one has yet brought up. The riders skid marks were in the left lane the cruiser was hit on the drivers REAR door, (JUST behind the door post). So this Brian would account somewhat for the amount of damage compared to say the Civic in the Quebec crash.

The cruiser simply is not a long enough vehicle to completely block both lanes of the roadway. That is a fact. It was late at night the officer "likely" had his emergency lights activated. The rider may have suffered from target fixation and simply could not, (nor am I suggesting he would have riden around the cruiser), again as I have said a few times folks this isn't Hollywood where the stunt rider squeezes at 100 mph between a car and a building in a 3' wide
opening.

If the rider was fixated on the light bar, (which is almost directly above the impact zone of the cruiser). that would explain, why he didn't hit further to the front or rear of the cruiser, in an attempt to avoid a collision. This happens all the time and was always a major concern whenever you pull a vehicle over at night. A driver becomes fixated on your light bar, and runs smack into the rear of the cruiser. So it is entirely plausible that this also occurred in this case as well.

Yes Paul I was a cop and my statement stands. The cruiser can't on it's own completely block both lanes of a roadway the cruiser simply isn't long enough I said a skilled rider riding at a reasonable speed should have been able to elude the cruiser and the chase would have begun. This is why, (back when we did road blocks we used THREE cruisers to completely block a road), BUT we also left approx a car length between, (side to side), the cruisers as an "escape route"

All I am saying is let's hear what the reconstructionists have to say about the collision and the various factors and events that lead to the tragedy.

 

[Emefef]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Out of respect for Clay, this thread should not be locked. Conversation should continue.

We owe it to Clay to ensure that the officer is properly disciplined.

"We" as in the posters on this board, are not going to ensure anything by speculation, misinterpretation and amateur analysis. "We" as a society owe it to the rider to find out what happened and then take appropriate steps.
The number of posts here, just the number of expressed opinions that all point to the officer being at fault because somebody died is really disheartening. I'm sure my feelings mean SFA to most of you but it's a sad commentary on society, or it's a black eye for what some like to tout as a brotherhood, fraternity or community of riders. Blaming cops for sticking together as you condemn one of them and blindly support a rider when you have no idea what happened? How is that different?

Everybody has a bad cop story. Everyone can find a video of one making a mistake, acting like a jerk, or doing something dangerous. That's because there are people that make mistakes in every job. There are jerks in every profession. That doesn't mean the entire profession is all jerks. It's one thing to speculate and analyze and try to find more information. It's human nature and we need answers. It's another thing to lay blame where it may not be justified. Let's get to the truth. In the meantime, there's no reason to condemn someone else that was out trying to do their job, and could just as easily have been killed or seriously injured.

 

[Brian P]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

^ The location of the impact, the position of the skid marks and the end position of the vehicles all indicate that either the cop car was travelling in the same direction (e.g. about to be overtaken by the bike) and did a U-turn (and the rider aimed left to try to avoid), or travelling in the opposite direction and cut across the road (in front of the rider who then aimed left to try to avoid) and THEN turned right in front of the bike. That's not speculation, it's indicated by the position of the vehicles, the damage, and the skid marks, the only thing not really known is which of the two circumstances it was, but EITHER of them involves an inappropriate action by the driver of the police car.

Whether the emergency lights were activated or not ... whether it was the intent of the police car to stop the bike or whether it was a driving error that anyone could make but it just so happened to be a police car that did it ... perhaps or perhaps not, but it doesn't change that somehow, the police car was sideways to the travel direction of the bike and in the opposite-direction lane and not in an intersection when it happened. These are things that the SIU is likely to be investigating. Maybe it was a deliberate attempt to stop the bike, or perhaps it wasn't; perhaps the cop got another call and decided to pull a U-turn but there happened to be a bike there. (That explanation is consistent with my opinion that this was NOT a high-speed collision.)

What it was NOT, was a head-on collision as being reported by some news outlets.

 

[OnAnySunday]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

^This.

Going forward... no more speculation. Wait for proper reports.

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