It sounds like you and MM are using different definitions of management. HR, accounting, marketing, etc are necessary staff that most people wouldn't consider management. I haven't seen a breakdown of how many managers there are at CP (probably everyone not a CP manager will agree there are too many).
FWIW I read an article that said CUPW total comp exceeded UPS total comp even though CUPW hourly rate is much lower. They didn't provide their source of data though. They presented it as fact. Truth or bad journalism?
OK, out of curiousity, how many delivery employees does UPS have compared to CP?
We have 55,000 letter carriers / clerks.
For example, 55K vs 20K (pure speculative number). You can pay/double comp the wages etc of the 20K and still be less than the 50K.
That could easily explain the total wage comp not being close.
OK, out of curiousity, how many delivery employees does UPS have compared to CP?
We have 55,000 letter carriers / clerks.
For example, 55K vs 20K (pure speculative number). You can pay/double comp the wages etc of the 20K and still be less than the 50K.
That could easily explain the total wage comp not being close.
Wage per employee not sum of wages. CP has better pension and I'm not sure about benefit comparison. Imo, cp corporate releasing total comp per cupw employee would be eye-opening for many.
I've seen the numbers for a private company with unionized employees and total cost to company is about double the hourly rate. An employee signs up for $28/hr and the company has to write cheques for ~$56/hr (salary, benefits, pension, etc).
Wage per employee not sum of wages. CP has better pension and I'm not sure about benefit comparison. Imo, cp corporate releasing total comp per cupw employee would be eye-opening for many.
I've seen the numbers for a private company with unionized employees and total cost to company is about double the hourly rate. An employee signs up for $28/hr and the company has to write cheques for ~$56/hr (salary, benefits, pension, etc).
I've seen the numbers for a private company with unionized employees and total cost to company is about double the hourly rate. An employee signs up for $28/hr and the company has to write cheques for ~$56/hr (salary, benefits, pension, etc).
The pension is the most important benefit that CP employees seem to have overlooked. I commented on this several pages back. That pension is a large part of the compensation package that the employer is obligated to pay into. In most cases they match the employee contribution dollar for dollar and that is why the defined benefit pension is not very common outside of government employees or crown corporations. An employee should never underestimate the value of a DB Pension. It's not nearly as comfortable to retire on just CPP and OAS.
CP management doesn't really care how long this lasts. It would be interesting to know if they're losing money faster or slower now than when they were operating. Any deficit will eventually get passed to taxpayers.
Union members are the most affected by this but have the least ability to move things along.
Union will get support from every other public sector Union in time. They are all terrified about the thin edge of the wedge breaking their ability to extort the public purse. Does this go on long enough to trigger a general strike? If so, what does the end look like?
It's reality for many people. It's not a comfortable life, that's for sure. Max is about $2k/mo, average is about $1.5K/mo and it looks like the floor is about $1.1K/mo.
If you go to a nursing home, you sign over your government cheques to them and IIRC get something like $100 a month to spend. Probably the cheapest option if you don't want to live in a tent. It may be possible in a rooming house outside of a metropolitan area with no vehicle. Even if you had a paid off house, property tax and utilities would use up a bunch of your money and it wouldn't be smooth sailing (especially if something needed repair). You'd probably need to get tenants or something to up the cashflow and stay solvent.
EDIT:
Off topic but just to show how much CPP sucks for everybody. I contributed $26K, my employer contributed $26K for a total of $52K "invested". That money will be "invested" for ~35 years and give me $750/mo. Really it's a ponzi scheme and my money goes to my parents and my kids pay for me which is why population growth is key to keep the scheme churning.
Napkin math if I put that money in S&P 500 (I assumed all the money went in at median date of contributions instead of being fed in every year and assumed the last 35 years of S&P 500 were similar to the relevant 35 years), I would have 1.75M available. You can comfortably draw $70-100K yearly from that in perpetuity and give the kids ~1.75M (probably much more actually but shouldn't be less).
CPP gives me $9K yearly with the same money invested and the kids get $2.5K. Barf. That assumes CPP is solvent when I need it (I wouldnt be surprised if the ponzi scheme had collapsed by that point). They are ratcheting up contributions quickly already to try to prop up the ponzi scheme. It will only get worse with time.
I managed to escape from that game almost a decade ago and am very happy with my choice. Self-directed ftw.
I have a 62 year old relative on a CPP disability pension and ODSP who lives in a LTC home.
He has a discounted LTC rate of about $1,200 a month and ODSP reduces their payment to him to account for his CPP pension so that he is left with about $150 a month.
Terrible, subsistence type existence. Warehousing of people. Would not wish this on anyone.
I have a 62 year old relative on a CPP disability pension and ODSP who lives in a LTC home.
He has a discounted LTC rate of about $1,200 a month and ODSP reduces their payment to him to account for his CPP pension so that he is left with about $150 a month.
Terrible, subsistence type existence. Warehousing of people. Would not wish this on anyone.
I entirely agree. Probably better than a tent but quality of life for most people in that situation is pretty bad. Disability makes it even worse as it's quite plausible to be in that situation for many decades.
I don't remember if I posted this earlier, but any new contract with CP must include a provision that CP employees cannot strike or take any job action for the 3 month period October 15 - January 14.
Many businesses across Canada are taking a massive hit as the holiday period, in general, can account for a huge percentage of annual sales.
I don't remember if I posted this earlier, but any new contract with CP must include a provision that CP employees cannot strike or take any job action for the 3 month period October 15 - January 14.
Many businesses across Canada are taking a massive hit as the holiday period, in general, can account for a huge percentage of annual sales.
This is management position or this is you bringing forward a good idea? Union won't go for it. This is when they have the most leverage. Once we get past christmas rush I say let them picket for another year (sorry to the posties here, you seem like good people but government organizations and pseudo-government organizations need to be rethought and completely restructured imo).
I would like to remind everyone of the events that got us here since most? of the blame seems to be directed at the postal workers.
This contract actually ended over a year ago. Both parties agreed to extend it and continue negotiations. So for a year both sides have played 'lets see who blinks first'.
-Union then gives notice that we 'could' strike in early November
-CP gives notice that they 'could' lock us out
-We continue to negotiate
-CP then says it is terminating the agreement and there will be no contract as of 8am November 15th, 2024
-Union gives notice that we will be on strike as of 12.01a.m of the same day. For clarification; no contract meant no benefits, no pension, no wage increase, no job protection
Why did CP rip up the agreement instead of holding their nose until after the holidays?
In my relatively unbiased opinion; the media coverage on this has been very 1 sided.
I would like to remind everyone of the events that got us here since most? of the blame seems to be directed at the postal workers.
This contract actually ended over a year ago. Both parties agreed to extend it and continue negotiations. So for a year both sides have played 'lets see who blinks first'.
-Union then gives notice that we 'could' strike in early November
-CP gives notice that they 'could' lock us out
-We continue to negotiate
-CP then says it is terminating the agreement and there will be no contract as of 8am November 15th, 2024
-Union gives notice that we will be on strike as of 12.01a.m of the same day. For clarification; no contract meant no benefits, no pension, no wage increase, no job protection
Why did CP rip up the agreement instead of holding their nose until after the holidays?
In my relatively unbiased opinion; the media coverage on this has been very 1 sided.
I am not blaming just the union. The whole system has failed and neither side wants to admit it nor wants to make substantial changes to be viable. Both sides have dug in their heels. Union wants more money and job security, CP loses billions already with no path to viability.
We only know public information released. Maybe union said they were going to go early december and hold christmas hostage so management pulled the trigger earlier? Who knows.
A stoppage prior to christmas season is infinitely better for consumers than a work stoppage that happens during the season with tons of time-sensitive things in the system. By moving the date earlier, most time-sensitive items will be sent a different way (or intentionally delayed). Either way they are not caught in purgatory.
Why would management not be in a rush to resolve.... hypothetical.
I can't say for sure for Canada Post but when a company is bleeding money and the employees go on strike...many times the company then starts bleeding less money as opex drops way down and the end quarter(s) will look much better (lower loss). I never understood striking in the private sector or in this case "arm's reach" private sector when the company is losing money. As an organized worker your leverage comes from lost profits during the strike...not lost quarterly deficits.
Remember, the management that is at the decision level continues to get paid. The employees walking the line are off opex right now.
Who's to blame for the current situation likely lots to go around but when a company is losing money....
I got a text this morning from an international number starting number 63 which is the Philippines. The parcel is coming from New Zealand.
I'm in Canada.
The blurb goes on about an invalid ZIP code.
We use postal codes.
The message implies it's from Canadian Customs but ends "Have a great day from the Canada Post Team team!"
Two agencies working together and the message ends in duplicate words.
It gives a link to "Correct" the ZIP code and after logging in type a "Y" etc.
I'll pass on the game but how did someone pick up on me expecting a parcel and get my cell number?
I was watching a security guy explain how scammers use a tidbit of info to pry open enough to steal an identity.
Someone salvages a prescription receipt and calls the named party saying "I'm calling from XYZ pharmacy and there's a problem with your Rx and we need your OHIP and SIN to clear things. A foreign accent isn't unusual in the medical field.
Since the person calling has a bunch of info already one assumes the call is legit and opens up.
I got a text this morning from an international number starting number 63 which is the Philippines. The parcel is coming from New Zealand.
I'm in Canada.
The blurb goes on about an invalid ZIP code.
We use postal codes.
The message implies it's from Canadian Customs but ends "Have a great day from the Canada Post Team team!"
Two agencies working together and the message ends in duplicate words.
It gives a link to "Correct" the ZIP code and after logging in type a "Y" etc.
I'll pass on the game but how did someone pick up on me expecting a parcel and get my cell number?
I was watching a security guy explain how scammers use a tidbit of info to pry open enough to steal an identity.
Someone salvages a prescription receipt and calls the named party saying "I'm calling from XYZ pharmacy and there's a problem with your Rx and we need your OHIP and SIN to clear things. A foreign accent isn't unusual in the medical field.
Since the person calling has a bunch of info already one assumes the call is legit and opens up.
You give them too much credit. Hit all phones numbers with all scams. My fifth third bank used to be compromised almost weekly. That is a US bank that I have never dealt with. Shotgun and hope for some suckers.
I would like to remind everyone of the events that got us here since most? of the blame seems to be directed at the postal workers.
This contract actually ended over a year ago. Both parties agreed to extend it and continue negotiations. So for a year both sides have played 'lets see who blinks first'.
-Union then gives notice that we 'could' strike in early November
-CP gives notice that they 'could' lock us out
-We continue to negotiate
-CP then says it is terminating the agreement and there will be no contract as of 8am November 15th, 2024
-Union gives notice that we will be on strike as of 12.01a.m of the same day. For clarification; no contract meant no benefits, no pension, no wage increase, no job protection
Why did CP rip up the agreement instead of holding their nose until after the holidays?
In my relatively unbiased opinion; the media coverage on this has been very 1 sided.
I think the tide may be turning a bit on unions, particularly those with their fingers in the public purse.
CPC is a crown corporation, however those billion-dollar annual losses become a liability to the gov't who will use the taxpayer's money to cover. The heat directed at the unions is not so much about greedy employees, I think the beef is with greedy postal unions. Unions have to own a lot of the responsibility for making it difficult to impossible for Canada Post to stay competitive in a changing market.
Stuff like backing JT in the 2018 election in exchange for halting conversion to Supermailbox's, inflating the overall workforce by restricting the use of technology, and insisting on antiquated schemes for route management that reduce parcel delivery productivity to less than 1/2 that of an Amazon, Fedex and UPS driver.
As far as the media goes, they are reacting to the global shift to the right. Media understands a left bias may not be a winning strategy these days, so you're less likely to see them write stories supporting picket line walkers, and more likely to write a story on how little the average Canadian is impacted by this strike.
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likely lots to go around but when a company is losing money....
