Can insurance quote me a price and then cancel after i sign?

[Dr.Manhattan]

Forum Sponsor

The premium has nothing to do with the price of the vehicle, people need to get over that thought ....the majority of the premium is accident benefits and liability

Not all the time. Just because I want to ride a Hayabusa, or a Kawi H2 doesn't mean Im looking to ride it to the pin all day every single day. Also doesn't mean I have a death wish. The fact my bike has 4x the insurance premium as a Suzuki B King that has the same 1300cc engine, but is classified as a Sport instead of a Super Sport is ridiculous. To me it shows how the Ontario insurance system has no clue on that they are doing. All you need is a 250 cc bike to ride like an idiot and get yourself killed or seriously injured - meanwhile that persons paying $500 a year for insurance.

 

[Superveloce]

Not all the time. Just because I want to ride a Hayabusa, or a Kawi H2 doesn't mean Im looking to ride it to the pin all day every single day. Also doesn't mean I have a death wish. The fact my bike has 4x the insurance premium as a Suzuki B King that has the same 1300cc engine, but is classified as a Sport instead of a Super Sport is ridiculous. To me it shows how the Ontario insurance system has no clue on that they are doing. All you need is a 250 cc bike to ride like an idiot and get yourself killed or seriously injured - meanwhile that persons paying $500 a year for insurance

Yes all the time. And if insurance in Ontario has no clue can you tell me what formula do you suggest to come up with premiums and how you arrived at that formula and what is included in that formula. Because insurance companies are paying actuaries a lot of money to come up with premiums and if they could replace all those people with just you doing it that would really be helpful.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Much lower than they are. When you look at how much bike insurance is in other parts of the world where the riding season is twice what ours is its pretty shocking.

Be sure you're comparing apples to apples.

Lots of people are quick to compare our insurance to cheap US policies but don't look at the bigger picture - our liability coverage here starts at 1 million and goes to 2 million for a typically token amount yearly. Those cheap US policies might cover $200,000, an amount that would be exceeded in a heartbeat in a serious lawsuit after a colission, leaving the insured person on the hook for the rest. In some situations that could result in someone losing everything, including their house.

Same for heath coverage - lots of those cheap US policies we all hear about may not actually have any health / hospital coverage whatsoever, and we all know how that works out in the USA. Is our system here in that regard perfect? Nope...but I think if people look at the nuts and bolts of what their insurance does cover if they ever need it, well, again, it beats most of those cheap policies hands down. Sure, they'll get the health coverage in the end but may end up with a lifetime of hospital bills they can potentially never repay.

 

[Mad Mike]

Be sure you're comparing apples to apples.

Lots of people are quick to compare our insurance to cheap US policies but don't look at the bigger picture - our liability coverage here starts at 1 million and goes to 2 million for a typically token amount yearly. Those cheap US policies might cover $200,000, an amount that would be exceeded in a heartbeat in a serious lawsuit after a colission, leaving the insured person on the hook for the rest. In some situations that could result in someone losing everything, including their house.

Same for heath coverage - lots of those cheap US policies we all hear about may not actually have any health / hospital coverage whatsoever, and we all know how that works out in the USA. Is our system here in that regard perfect? Nope...but I think if people look at the nuts and bolts of what their insurance does cover if they ever need it, well, again, it beats most of those cheap policies hands down. Sure, they'll get the health coverage in the end but may end up with a lifetime of hospital bills they can potentially never repay.

And we should compare to the US as they have an open, competitive market that has innovation we can only dream of.

In the USA you often pay for liability insurance based on your personal risk, not as a risk element for everything you do. For example, I can buy liability insurance that covers me -- whether I land on someone after a bad sky dive, they slip and fall on my driveway, crash into their boathouse, or hit them on my motorcycle. In Ontario I pay once each for my home, each car, each motorcycle, each atv... but for some reason my house insurance covers my boat (hope that doesn't go away).

I'd be happy to relieve myself of many of the mandatory AB benefits in exchange for lower rates. The most abused items (fraud) fall in the accident benefits category, rather than me paying for all that fraud, maybe letting people that want those benefits pay for it -- that way insureres may also have focus on those intending to abuse the system. Many of these benefits are already included in my workplace benefits so I'm paying for those twice.

I can have the same coverage in Florida as I have here on a home, 2 bikes, 2 cars and a boat for less than 1/2 what I pay here. If I want to cheep out and take on a lot of risk -- about 1/8th.

 

[Superveloce]

And we should compare to the US as they have an open, competitive market that has innovation we can only dream of.

In the USA you often pay for liability insurance based on your personal risk, not as a risk element for everything you do. For example, I can buy liability insurance that covers me -- whether I land on someone after a bad sky dive, they slip and fall on my driveway, crash into their boathouse, or hit them on my motorcycle. In Ontario I pay once each for my home, each car, each motorcycle, each atv... but for some reason my house insurance covers my boat (hope that doesn't go away).

I'd be happy to relieve myself of many of the mandatory AB benefits in exchange for lower rates. The most abused items (fraud) fall in the accident benefits category, rather than me paying for all that fraud, maybe letting people that want those benefits pay for it -- that way insureres may also have focus on those intending to abuse the system. Many of these benefits are already included in my workplace benefits so I'm paying for those twice.

I can have the same coverage in Florida as I have here on a home, 2 bikes, 2 cars and a boat for less than 1/2 what I pay here. If I want to cheep out and take on a lot of risk -- about 1/8th.

Yeah those cheap Florida insurance rates are working out really well for them......

Florida's P&C Insurance Market: Spiraling Toward Collapse - Insurance Journal Research

This new report, highlighted in Amy O’Connor’s recent Insurance Journal article, was commissioned on behalf of Florida citizens, and Florida’s economy to meet 2 objectives: Determine the validity of a perceived P&C market crisis and if proven, determine the root causes. Define viable public...

www.insurancejournal.com

Insurance - Florida’s Property Insurance Market Is ‘Spiraling Towards Collapse’ Due to Litigation

And your homeowners insurance doesn’t cover your boat unless it’s a pretty small low horsepower boat. You might want to talk to your broker or whoever you were dealing with

 

[DownUnder]

I wouldn't say "sadly"... Its just a fact.

You may think the cost of your bike compared to your premium is out of whack, but... your bike's worth is a drop in the bucket compared to the potential cost of an accident/injury.

Haven't the insurance Companies lobbied the govt and got those costs down astronomically over the years? Max amounts you can claim for specific injuries? People aren't getting $1m for a broken leg anymore...

 

[Superveloce]

Haven't the insurance Companies lobbied the govt and got those costs down astronomically over the years? Max amounts you can claim for specific injuries? People aren't getting $1m for a broken leg anymore...

nope ...the claims are higher and higher in all sectors of insurance.

What Are Average Ontario Personal Injury Settlements? | MG Law

From car accident settlements to slip and falls, view the Ontario personal injury settlements we’ve achieved for our clients.

mginjurylawyers.com

 

[Mad Mike]

Yeah those cheap Florida insurance rates are working out really well for them......

Florida's P&C Insurance Market: Spiraling Toward Collapse - Insurance Journal Research

This new report, highlighted in Amy O’Connor’s recent Insurance Journal article, was commissioned on behalf of Florida citizens, and Florida’s economy to meet 2 objectives: Determine the validity of a perceived P&C market crisis and if proven, determine the root causes. Define viable public...

www.insurancejournal.com

Insurance - Florida’s Property Insurance Market Is ‘Spiraling Towards Collapse’ Due to Litigation

And your homeowners insurance doesn’t cover your boat unless it’s a pretty small low horsepower boat. You might want to talk to your broker or whoever you were dealing with

The current P&C issues in Florida are related to giant upticks in Hurricane and Flood claims, not motor vehicles. We don't have those issues here. Pick another state -- say Arizona or Texas.

As for homeowners insurance on the boat, yes it does. My dinghy is 700hp, my insurerer sends my club a

Haven't the insurance Companies lobbied the govt and got those costs down astronomically over the years? Max amounts you can claim for specific injuries? People aren't getting $1m for a broken leg anymore...

its complicated. Insurers and the govt cooperate.

simplifying insurance would cost thousands of jobs that are supported thru what is essentially a subsidy. This is one of the industry’s battle cries.

Things that need doing:

• open market to competition.
• Reduce the IBC lobby and insurer collusion on limiting products and innovation.
• force insurers to fight fraud rather than allowing make AB a la carte

 

[Superveloce]

The current P&C issues in Florida are related to giant upticks in Hurricane and Flood claims, not motor vehicles. We don't have those issues here. Pick another state -- say Arizona or Texas.

As for homeowners insurance on the boat, yes it does. My dinghy is 700hp, my insurerer sends my club a

its complicated. Insurers and the govt cooperate.

simplifying insurance would cost thousands of jobs that are supported thru what is essentially a subsidy. This is one of the industry’s battle cries.

Things that need doing:

• open market to competition.
• Reduce the IBC lobby and insurer collusion on limiting products and innovation.
• force insurers to fight fraud rather than allowing make AB a la carte

homeowners insurance does not cover your boat . Not in Ontario at least . If you mean Florida ,ok I don’t know their wording. But I assume it doesn’t either as I have clients with houses in Florida and boats And the house doesn’t cover the boat. Who is telling you it does?
here Is the wording in Ontario for boats under your homeowners :

• Is less than 8 meters or 26 feet in length
• Or is equipped with an outboard motors of not more than 25hp in total
• Or has an inboard or inboard/outboard motor of not more than 50hp.

Is My Boat Covered Under My Homeowners Insurance Policy?

The coverage you already have in your Ayr Farmers Homeowners Plus policy for small boats, and why you should check if it is enough to cover your boat

www.ayrmutual.com

-the market is open...where is competition not allowed?
_ there is no insurer collusion get real . They want to take business from each other . Get over that myth
- insurers do fight fraud , but they also recognize they’re not gonna spend $200,000 fighting a potentially fraudulent claim that they could settle for $5000. It’s just economics if they can’t prove the fraud 100% they’re not gonna spend the money.. And if they investigated every fraudulent potentially fraudulent claim your insurance would be a lot more due to expenses being way higher

 

[PrivatePilot]

Everyone wants cheap insurance, until they need their insurance, and realize their insurance is cheap.

 

[ChrisCBR]

Be sure you're comparing apples to apples.

Lots of people are quick to compare our insurance to cheap US policies but don't look at the bigger picture - our liability coverage here starts at 1 million and goes to 2 million for a typically token amount yearly. Those cheap US policies might cover $200,000, an amount that would be exceeded in a heartbeat in a serious lawsuit after a colission, leaving the insured person on the hook for the rest. In some situations that could result in someone losing everything, including their house.

Same for heath coverage - lots of those cheap US policies we all hear about may not actually have any health / hospital coverage whatsoever, and we all know how that works out in the USA. Is our system here in that regard perfect? Nope...but I think if people look at the nuts and bolts of what their insurance does cover if they ever need it, well, again, it beats most of those cheap policies hands down. Sure, they'll get the health coverage in the end but may end up with a lifetime of hospital bills they can potentially never repay.

Im well aware its not exactly an apples to apples comparison. None of us have any hard data on US, UK, AUS coverages and costs.
But I am still very confident that per KM ridden, all things being equal, we pay more.
I would be curious to find the fatality per written policy here vs those others countries.

If I own 3 cars and 3 motorcycles in Ontario, with one car being used as a commuter, why am I forced to purchase 6 liability coverages when I am the only operator?

 

[Superveloce]

Im well aware its not exactly an apples to apples comparison. None of us have any hard data on US, UK, AUS coverages and costs.
But I am still very confident that per KM ridden, all things being equal, we pay more.
I would be curious to find the fatality per written policy here vs those others countries.

If I own 3 cars and 3 motorcycles in Ontario, with one car being used as a commuter, why am I forced to purchase 6 liability coverages when I am the only operator?

How do people not get this? because you could let 6 different people use your cars and bikes at the same time. Yes you’re gonna say I would never do that but many many people would , and yes you’re gonna say you will sign a form saying only you will drive them but that means nothing. If there is claim the insurer will be on the hook no matter what you signed .
People put fake addresses to save money you don’t think some clown is going to buy six cars, put one insurance policy on all of them if he could and let 6 People Drive them while charging them money to do so. For everything you think you’ll be honest about there are 10,000 other people that would be scamming and lying and cheating all over the place.

 

[Superveloce]

Everyone wants cheap insurance, until they need their insurance, and realize their insurance is cheap.

I’m impressed . You get it . No I’m not joking. Too bad you blocked me cause now you can’t see me complimenting you

 

[ChrisCBR]

How do people not get this? because you could let 6 different people use your cars and bikes at the same time. Yes you’re gonna say I would never do that but many many people would , and yes you’re gonna say you will sign a form saying only you will drive them but that means nothing. If there is claim the insurer will be on the hook no matter what you signed .
People put fake addresses to save money you don’t think some clown is going to buy six cars, put one insurance policy on all of them if he could and let 6 People Drive them while charging them money to do so. For everything you think you’ll be honest about there are 10,000 other people that would be scamming and lying and cheating all over the place.

So why allow ANY discounts for more than one vehicle in that case?
There are endorsements excluding others from operating vehicles. Just make it clear that only the named person has valid insurance on the vehicles.
Anyone else caught operating the vehicle is given the no insurance ticket. Any claim made would need to be backed up with video evidence showing only the insured was driving.

If I live by myself or with my family and I have 3 bikes that see 1000km each per year, a manual trans Vette and Civic, I shouldnt be paying 5 liability coverages when noone but myself has a bike license or can drive manual.

 

[Mad Mike]

nope ...the claims are higher and higher in all sectors of insurance.

What Are Average Ontario Personal Injury Settlements? | MG Law

From car accident settlements to slip and falls, view the Ontario personal injury settlements we’ve achieved for our clients.

mginjurylawyers.com

Read that web page and you’ll see one of the reasons insurance is so high. I’m all for penalties and proper settlements, but not so much in favour of supporting an industry of ambulance chasing lawyers who can torn a booboo into a million dollar settlement.

 

[Mad Mike]

homeowners insurance does not cover your boat . Not in Ontario at least . If you mean Florida ,ok I don’t know their wording. But I assume it doesn’t either as I have clients with houses in Florida and boats And the house doesn’t cover the boat. Who is telling you it does?
here Is the wording in Ontario for boats under your homeowners :

• Is less than 8 meters or 26 feet in length
• Or is equipped with an outboard motors of not more than 25hp in total
• Or has an inboard or inboard/outboard motor of not more than 50hp.

Is My Boat Covered Under My Homeowners Insurance Policy?

The coverage you already have in your Ayr Farmers Homeowners Plus policy for small boats, and why you should check if it is enough to cover your boat

www.ayrmutual.com

-the market is open...where is competition not allowed?
_ there is no insurer collusion get real . They want to take business from each other . Get over that myth
- insurers do fight fraud , but they also recognize they’re not gonna spend $200,000 fighting a potentially fraudulent claim that they could settle for $5000. It’s just economics if they can’t prove the fraud 100% they’re not gonna spend the money.. And if they investigated every fraudulent potentially fraudulent claim your insurance would be a lot more due to expenses being way higher

My you are naive.

Competition. Consolidation in the industry has reduced competition dramatically over the last decade. New entrants are inhibited by regulation and the forces of monstrous competitors.

Eliminating competition removes the need to innovate.

Permitting the insurance industry to operate as a cartel through the IBC also costs. A powerful Collective lobby slows changes and protects business interests over those of consumers.


The Ontario govt is talking about reform that would increase competition, choices and innovation. The wheels move slow, but at least they are moving

Fraud. They have no incentive to fight fraud. Fraud represents upwards of 30% of payouts ... you and I foot that bill. It’s systemic in insurance, tow operators, lawyers, repair shops, medical practitioners and fraudsters have a comfy regulatory and oversight that lets them tape the system. Insurers are simply allowed to pass that expense along without a fight.

Finally, on the boat thing, that might be your insurers limitation. My personal liability policy has be restrictions on size.

 

[Superveloce]

My you are naive.

Competition. Consolidation in the industry has reduced competition dramatically over the last decade. New entrants are inhibited by regulation and the forces of monstrous competitors.

Eliminating competition removes the need to innovate.

Permitting the insurance industry to operate as a cartel through the IBC also costs. A powerful Collective lobby slows changes and protects business interests over those of consumers.


The Ontario govt is talking about reform that would increase competition, choices and innovation. The wheels move slow, but at least they are moving

Fraud. They have no incentive to fight fraud. Fraud represents upwards of 30% of payouts ... you and I foot that bill. It’s systemic in insurance, tow operators, lawyers, repair shops, medical practitioners and fraudsters have a comfy regulatory and oversight that lets them tape the system. Insurers are simply allowed to pass that expense along without a fight.

Finally, on the boat thing, that might be your insurers limitation. My personal liability policy has be restrictions on size.

You have no idea what you are talking about , come to my office anytime for a talk about insurance to see who is naive and who is a keyboard genius. Message me for the address if you are interested. I have forgotten more than you think you know .
Yes the liability is covered but you said the boat , the boat is not covered for theft or physical damage under your house policy. If you think it is you are wrong.

 

[Superveloce]

So why allow ANY discounts for more than one vehicle in that case?
There are endorsements excluding others from operating vehicles. Just make it clear that only the named person has valid insurance on the vehicles.
Anyone else caught operating the vehicle is given the no insurance ticket. Any claim made would need to be backed up with video evidence showing only the insured was driving.

If I live by myself or with my family and I have 3 bikes that see 1000km each per year, a manual trans Vette and Civic, I shouldnt be paying 5 liability coverages when noone but myself has a bike license or can drive manual.

I explained it above you can keep talking all you want but people abusing the system is the problem it has nothing to do with you or how many cars you have .

 

[justride]

Technically speaking. If they actual cancel you insurance it might cause a problem with getting a new insurance from a different company.
Being cancel will raise red flag with the new insurance company. Get this squared away before you start looking.
Bad " My insurance company canceled me"
Good " My insurance stopped insuring motorcycles for some reason"

 

[PrivatePilot]

If they actual cancel you insurance it might cause a problem with getting a new insurance from a different company.

A cancellation is the kiss of death for insurance companies.

A "We cannot renew your policy at it's maturity" however is not a cancellation. But a "You misrepresented yourself during the application process and we are cancelling your coverage effective immediately" will cause you all sorts of grief. AFAIK it'll put you into facility or "We can't offer you coverage, sorry" territory right away with any other insurance company.

Forum Sponsor