Boeing 737 Max 8

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FAA has deemed wiring in max 8 to be non-compliant. Boeing argued that it hasn't caused a crash yet so it's fine. Facepalm.

FAA also wants to fine Boeing ~20,000,000 for swapping sensors to one that was not approved.

Also reports out on Ethiopia crash. In short, faulty sensor triggered MCAS and started descent, air speed increased and manual trim control was not possible so pilots enabled computer control and MCAS dove the plane into the ground.

Also this:
"U.S. House Transportation Committee's investigation said Boeing was under "tremendous financial pressure" to compete with Airbus and in several instances "jeopardized the safety of the flying public" to keep up with production pressures.

The company made "faulty assumptions" about MCAS by assuming pilots could overcome malfunctions, and "withheld" from pilots the fact that they would only have 10 seconds or less to diagnose and respond to a system error before risking "catastrophic consequences," said the report."

Straight up mass manslaughter in the quest for profit.

 
GreyGhost said:
FAA has deemed wiring in max 8 to be non-compliant. Boeing argued that it hasn't caused a crash yet so it's fine. Facepalm.

FAA also wants to fine Boeing ~20,000,000 for swapping sensors to one that was not approved.

Also reports out on Ethiopia crash. In short, faulty sensor triggered MCAS and started descent, air speed increased and manual trim control was not possible so pilots enabled computer control and MCAS dove the plane into the ground.

Also this:
"U.S. House Transportation Committee's investigation said Boeing was under "tremendous financial pressure" to compete with Airbus and in several instances "jeopardized the safety of the flying public" to keep up with production pressures.

The company made "faulty assumptions" about MCAS by assuming pilots could overcome malfunctions, and "withheld" from pilots the fact that they would only have 10 seconds or less to diagnose and respond to a system error before risking "catastrophic consequences," said the report."

Straight up mass manslaughter in the quest for profit.

Click to expand...

Could Boeing get any worse?
 
Expected cost of max 8 shitshow at Boeing at 23B plus liability for loss of life and climbing.

I smiled at this part:
"And once Boeing misses its delivery dates by a year, the airlines can cancel or delay a purchase without paying penalties.
"It becomes a very easy way to renegotiate [and] puts financial pressure on Boeing,""
Basically airlines have Boeing by the short and curlies. Either Boeing agrees to sell the planes for less or their order book gets decimated. Either way, the Max 8 program profitability is severely impaired or maybe even destroyed. With the current covid outbreak stalling travel and low gas prices due to OPEC, airlines may choose to combine both approaches (give me half the planes at 75% of the unit cost).

Let em burn.

amp.cnn.com

The cost of the Boeing 737 Max crisis: $18.7 billion and counting

The Boeing 737 Max crisis took the lives of 346 people. It has also cost the aircraft maker at least $18.7 billion. And Tuesday's one-year anniversary of the second fatal crash of the jet, there is a real risk that the costs be significantly higher.
amp.cnn.com amp.cnn.com
 
Never mind the airlines are all in financial trouble due to COVID19, they may just not buy any planes at all...even if they are all still in business.
 
nobbie48 said:
An general overview:
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Not a bad overview of the MCAS portion (although no technical content on how mcas functions). It does not include any mention of wiring, debris in fuel tanks etc. TL: DW Fox guarding the henhouse. Kaboom.
 
50% of the inspected gas tanks had crap left in them? God damn it, that is not an error, that is a complete lack of any caring.
 
GreyGhost said:
50% of the inspected gas tanks had crap left in them? God damn it, that is not an error, that is a complete lack of any caring.
Click to expand...

Or worse. I knew a guy that worked for MD when they were at Malton. One trick was to drill a hole in the fuel tank and plug it with chewing gum so it would pass a water leak test. When assembled into the wing and fuelled the gum would let go. There were other total losers that worked there.
 
It appears that Boeing is using the Tesla approach to vehicles. Get them out into the hands of the public and come back later to fix things if there are complaints. Sounds like a great design process for a plane.
mobile.reuters.com

Boeing making new 737 MAX software updates to address computer issue

Boeing Co (BA.N) said late on Tuesday it will make two new software updates to the 737 MAX's flight control computer as it works to win regulatory approval to resume flights after the jet was grounded following two fatal crashes in five months.
mobile.reuters.com mobile.reuters.com
"The planemaker confirmed to Reuters that one issue involves hypothetical faults in the flight control computer microprocessor, which could potentially lead to a loss of control known as a runaway stabilizer, while the other issue could potentially lead to disengagement of the autopilot feature during final approach.

Last month, Boeing decided to separate 737 MAX wiring bundles that the FAA had flagged by regulators as potentially dangerous before the jet returns to service, Reuters reported.

Boeing said in February it would need a new software update to address an indicator light issue.

In January, Boeing discovered another software issue relating to a power-up monitoring function that verifies some system monitors are operating correctly."
 
GreyGhost said:
It appears that Boeing is using the Tesla approach to vehicles. Get them out into the hands of the public and come back later to fix things if there are complaints. Sounds like a great design process for a plane.
mobile.reuters.com

Boeing making new 737 MAX software updates to address computer issue

Boeing Co (BA.N) said late on Tuesday it will make two new software updates to the 737 MAX's flight control computer as it works to win regulatory approval to resume flights after the jet was grounded following two fatal crashes in five months.
mobile.reuters.com mobile.reuters.com
"The planemaker confirmed to Reuters that one issue involves hypothetical faults in the flight control computer microprocessor, which could potentially lead to a loss of control known as a runaway stabilizer, while the other issue could potentially lead to disengagement of the autopilot feature during final approach.

Last month, Boeing decided to separate 737 MAX wiring bundles that the FAA had flagged by regulators as potentially dangerous before the jet returns to service, Reuters reported.

Boeing said in February it would need a new software update to address an indicator light issue.

In January, Boeing discovered another software issue relating to a power-up monitoring function that verifies some system monitors are operating correctly."
Click to expand...

With C-19 and the ongoing Max 8 issues will the planes be sold as new old stock. Pardon the pun but it'll be a long while before aviation takes off.
 
Boeing is refusing to return deposits on cancelled orders. Even though they have missed deliverybdeadline by over a year and can provide no timeline for when delivery will happen "Boeing has resisted its claim that the problems amounted to a "non-excusable delay" that would justify repayment". So they arent repaying deposits because they built and sold a crashy plane and use that as an excuse as to why they should keep your money for not wanting them? Let it burn.

www.cnbc.com

Boeing is sued for $336M over canceled 737 Max order

Boeing Co was sued for $336 million on Wednesday by a Kuwaiti leasing company that accused it of wrongly refusing to return advance payments on a now-canceled order for 40 of its troubled 737 Max planes.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com
 
GreyGhost said:
Boeing is refusing to return deposits on cancelled orders. Even though they have missed deliverybdeadline by over a year and can provide no timeline for when delivery will happen "Boeing has resisted its claim that the problems amounted to a "non-excusable delay" that would justify repayment". So they arent repaying deposits because they built and sold a crashy plane and use that as an excuse as to why they should keep your money for not wanting them? Let it burn.

www.cnbc.com

Boeing is sued for $336M over canceled 737 Max order

Boeing Co was sued for $336 million on Wednesday by a Kuwaiti leasing company that accused it of wrongly refusing to return advance payments on a now-canceled order for 40 of its troubled 737 Max planes.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com
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Cheaper fuel and fewer passengers for the foreseeable future makes a lemon of an airplane hard to love.
 
EASA and TC are requiring some more upgrades (including synthetic airspeed with which will be expensive as it needs to be created and then certified). This may be like the c-series, an endless stream of problems that uses up the entire cash flow.

www.seattletimes.com

Foreign regulators demand substantial new changes to Boeing 737 MAX flight controls

The required changes highlight weaknesses in the 737's inherited avionics systems. The fixes could add substantial cost to the MAX program and may slow the ramp-up of deliveries Boeing needs to recover its cash flow.
www.seattletimes.com www.seattletimes.com
 
GreyGhost said:
EASA and TC are requiring some more upgrades (including synthetic airspeed with which will be expensive as it needs to be created and then certified). This may be like the c-series, an endless stream of problems that uses up the entire cash flow.

www.seattletimes.com

Foreign regulators demand substantial new changes to Boeing 737 MAX flight controls

The required changes highlight weaknesses in the 737's inherited avionics systems. The fixes could add substantial cost to the MAX program and may slow the ramp-up of deliveries Boeing needs to recover its cash flow.
www.seattletimes.com www.seattletimes.com
Click to expand...

The airline industry is "fubar" anyway. What happens with Boeing's 737 Max is almost a who cares in this new reality. Westjet is struggling big time, as are others worldwide!
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/westjet-layoffs-pandemic-1.5625543
 
Boeing doesn't have a monopoly on dumb ideas. It makes you question what the hell the regulators are doing.

The PIA crash was fundamentally a giant pilot cockup (probably the most mistakes by commercial pilots on a single flight) and the plane behaved admirably in the face of horrendous abuse (they landed very fast with the gear up (so they landed on the engines), deployed the thrust reversers and then aborted and took off again). During the go -around both engines quit (right one lost it's oil pump, cause of death of left engine is not confirmed yet). At that point the FDR and CVR on airbus planes stop working by design. Huh? When you are in a clear emergency you stop all data logging? I understand you don't want to use up the limited power available from the RAT but what's the matter with a backup battery for the recorders?
 
Another damning inditement of boeing and faa. Corruption and manipulation are the foundation of their programs.

www.commerce.senate.gov

Wicker Releases Committee’s FAA Investigation Report

U.S. Sen. Roger Wicker, R-Miss., chairman of the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation, today released the Committee’s investigation report on the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). This investigation began in April of 2019, weeks after the second of two tragic crashes of...
www.commerce.senate.gov
FAA senior managers have not been held accountable for failure to develop and deliver adequate training in flight standards, despite repeated findings of deficiencies over several decades.
The FAA continues to retaliate against whistleblowers instead of welcoming their disclosures in the interest of safety.
The Department of Transportation Office of General Counsel (DOT OGC) failed to produce relevant documents requested by Chairman Wicker as required by Article I, Section I of the Constitution.
The FAA repeatedly permitted Southwest Airlines to continue operating dozens of aircraft in an unknown airworthiness condition for several years. These flights put millions of passengers at risk.
During 737 MAX recertification testing, Boeing inappropriately influenced FAA human factor simulator testing of pilot reaction times involving a Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS) failure.
FAA senior leaders may have obstructed a DOT OIG review of the 737 MAX crashes

www.theverge.com

FAA and Boeing manipulated 737 Max tests during recertification

A blistering new Senate report details multiple safety failures.
www.theverge.com www.theverge.com

Boeing “inappropriately coached” some FAA test pilots to reach a desired outcome during the recertification tests, and some were even performed on simulators that weren’t equipped to re-create the same conditions as the crashes.
 
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