Bill 70 threatens trades

daught

daught

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www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/ottawa/ontario-budget-threat-certified-tradespeople-1.3868990

People who work in trades with compulsory certification say a provision in the Ontario budget bill would weaken the Ontario College of Trades — and open the door to uncertified labourers taking the work of electricians, plumbers and pipefitters.

There are more than 50,000 workers in the 20 trades covered by the College of Trades.

Warning issued over 'mess' left by uncertified LRT workers

Brett Maclean is a certified journeyman electrician who works in Ottawa and specializes in fire alarms.*

"That's a life safety system. I need to be qualified," he said. "There's checks and balances to make sure that I can touch the system and no one else can."

'It degrades the safety of my work site.'- Brett*Maclean,*certified journeyman electrician

Maclean said he completed five years of on-the-job apprenticeship and schooling to get his certification. He's worried that Schedule 17 of Bill 70, Ontario's budget implementation bill, would weaken enforcement that keeps general labourers from doing the work of an electrician, for instance.

"I worked really hard for this certification and now I could potentially lose my job to someone who doesn't have any qualifications at all — and that's really, really scary."

Maclean said he's also worried cheaper, uncertified labour could drive down his wage and endanger his colleagues.

"It degrades the safety of my work site," Maclean said.*"If I'm working alongside this person and they don't know what they're doing it puts me at risk."

Weakening the Ontario College of Trades

The International Brotherhood of*Electrical Workers is one of the unions*organizing a campaign against Schedule 17. John Bourke, business manager for IBEW*Local*586, said his members are livid.

"You're looking at the surface of the sun," he said. "I've never seen them this mad."


John Bourke, business manager International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local 586, is concerned the Ontario 2016 budget bill will weaken the Ontario College of Trades. (Matthew Kupfer/CBC)

Bourke said the College of Trades was meant*to put tradespeople in charge of the rules.

"We wanted to have construction people oversee the construction industry, because we know what's best for us," Bourke said.*

"Just like a doctor does, just like a lawyer does, they all have their associations. So why can't we govern and make policy on behalf of the people who know exactly what they're doing?"

He's worried the Ontario Labour Relations Board will be more lenient about enforcing which duties belong to which trade.

"If you give it*to bureaucrats at the Ontario Labour Relations Board*— none of them are electricians, none of them have spent any time in the construction industry."

The Ottawa District Labour Council, which represents both certified and uncertified workers, has not taken a position on the bill and is still studying it.

'I don't think the sky is falling'

Ottawa Construction Association president John DeVries said Schedule 17 looks like a return to a more reasonable way of determining who can do what kind of work.

He said there are collective agreements in some parts of the province that*allow electricians to work on "mixed crews" with general labourers*who dig trenches and lay plastic pipe with conduits in it.

"The labourers will do that dirty work, basic work," he said.*"Electricians*are there for the pulling of the wire and making the connections —*all the stuff that require some*safety training."


Electrical workers union says this photo from June 2016 is evidence of a botched wiring job on the LRT project in Ottawa. (IBEW)

DeVries said under a more strict definition of an electrician's work, the labourers wouldn't be allowed to do that work even if there was no danger.

​"The college was threatening, with their enforcement, to upend that tradition. And now we're back."

DeVries said he welcome the emphasis on an independent body applying the rules.

"That's to address the concern that came from industry. There was a perception that the college board and their structure was not independent, was over-weighted to go in one direction," he said.

"I don't think the sky is falling, I think a more reasonable approach is coming in."

The Progressive Certified Trades Coalition is meeting in Toronto on Monday to plan their opposition to the budget measure.
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-D- said:
Tldr?

They are going to allow ppl to do the job cheaper?
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Some tasks of some trades are just glorified labour. Wages should reflect that?
 
inreb said:
Some tasks of some trades are just glorified labour. Wages should reflect that?
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Then let's start with the positions in Government :)
TTC tollbooth collector comes to mind (making $125k sitting in a booth, salary plus ginned up overtime)
 
-D- said:
Then let's start with the positions in Government :)
TTC tollbooth collector comes to mind (making $125k sitting in a booth, salary plus ginned up overtime)
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Of course. And do TTC tollbooth collectors really make $125g or is that more that all to common hyperbole thrown out to make a point?
 
What courses do general labourers take so people working with them know stuff is being done right?

One day the guy is doing fringe plumbing and the next fringe electrical or framing or waterproofing.

How does he or she keep up with changes, legal or technical, unless he / she is a member of the appropriate trade associations?
 
inreb said:
Some tasks of some trades are just glorified labour. Wages should reflect that?
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Not wrong, but idealistic theory, here.

The engineer making $100k still has to create drawings, of which a college-degree'd "engineering technician" can do. Sometimes, as an electrician, you gotta pull wires.

It sounds like the tradesmen overseeing the general labourers on that Ottawa LRT job, ****ed up. Plain and simple. "General labourers" technically require zero training; but their work is to be overseen by qualified individuals, such as site managers, and certified tradesmen. They're not supposed to work alone.
 
By lowering tradesman wages what exactly does Wynne and gtam think will be achieved?

Cheaper pot lights installation in the kitchen?
Cheaper subway lines?
Ontario debt will be reduced?
Less people will be tazed?

Please... The money saved will not benefit the bulk of the society society in any way, but it will hurt plenty of individuals.



Kri$han said:
Not wrong, but idealistic theory, here.

The engineer making $100k still has to create drawings, of which a college-degree'd "engineering technician" can do. Sometimes, as an electrician, you gotta pull wires.

It sounds like the tradesmen overseeing the general labourers on that Ottawa LRT job, ****ed up. Plain and simple. "General labourers" technically require zero training; but their work is to be overseen by qualified individuals, such as site managers, and certified tradesmen. They're not supposed to work alone.
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The tradesmen overseeing the labourers were probably overburdened with other tasks. They were never meant to keep an eye on the laborers. The tradesmen don't make the decision on who they should supervise.
 
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daught said:
By lowering tradesman wages what exactly does Wynne and gtam think will be achieved?

Cheaper pot lights installation in the kitchen?
Cheaper subway lines?
Ontario debt will be reduced?
Less people will be tazed?

Please... The money saved will not benefit the bulk of the society society in any way, but it will hurt plenty of individuals.
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Like legalizing pot, lowering trade wages might get rid of the black market. Just a thought. Don't get me wrong, I like higher wages.
 
inreb said:
Like legalizing pot, lowering trade wages might get rid of the black market. Just a thought. Don't get me wrong, I like higher wages.
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There is a huge difference between a completely illegal black market and a trades black market. Pot, like cigarettes, will always have a black market, but it does not affect most people.
 
I never worked in government or trade, nor have I been part of union, ever. But it seems always about protecting someone's rights, correct? Either you claim to be protecting them, or you are being protected by them ... whatever.

What I want to know is, what's the government's real motive in this? Not clear to me from the article.
 
mxs said:
I never worked in government or trade, nor have I been part of union, ever. But it seems always about protecting someone's rights, correct? Either you claim to be protecting them, or you are being protected by them ... whatever.
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Do you really want someone installing, say, a gas fireplace in your den who learned how to do it watching Youtube videos?
 
raginduck said:
Gas licence is easy to get.
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It is? When I got mine in the late '80's (since lapsed) it was easy. I understand it's kind of a big deal now. Maybe still easy in Brampton :dontknow:?
 
Ontario Collage of Trades has done absolutely nothing for me or my wage since implementation; unless you factor in the 600% increase in license renewal fees. Why aren't they out there restricting who can buy hydraulic brake or steering components, or fuel lines and tanks, for example, even though there is obvious safety concerns for the public at large if those jobs are done poorly/incorrectly.

Just another useless layer of bureaucracy which needs to be eliminated, not just weakened.
 
Media Advisory - Skilled trades protest at Queen's Park Nov. 30
TORONTO, Nov. 29, 2016 /CNW/ - Please be advised there will be a massive rally on the lawn of Queen's Park with skilled trades professionals, employers and apprentices from all across Ontario.

They will be protesting the dangerous amendments proposed by the Ontario Liberal government in Schedule 17 of Bill 70.
These amendments will impact more than 200,000 certified trades professionals in Ontario who will see their training and certification become meaningless due to unprecedented changes that will benefit business by allowing cheaper, unskilled labour to do complex and potentially dangerous work without certification.
This will put both workers and the public at risk.
The rally will begin at 9:30 a.m. on Wednesday Nov. 30
BACKGROUNDER
Schedule 17 of Bill 70 - the demise of skilled trades in Ontario
The Liberal government has introduced amendments to the Ontario College of Trades and Apprenticeship Act (the Act) that will dilute the enforcement powers of the Ontario College of Trades and devalue a Certification of Qualification and the compulsory trades designation. This government is creating an unsafe workplace and telling skilled trades professionals and apprentices that their investment in training is a waste of time and money.
The Wynne government has chosen to hide these damaging amendments from public scrutiny by attaching them to an omnibus bill.
There are currently 22 compulsory trades in Ontario in which a person must be certified, or be registered as an apprentice in a given trade and a member of the College, to work or be employed in that trade. Certification is compulsory to ensure that anyone engaged in the practice of trades which pose risks to workers, public safety or consumer protection, are trained and sufficiently competent to perform work properly and safely. The Certificate of Qualification is the only demonstrable proof of that training. The government's proposed amendments will now allow individuals without certification to do work within the scope of theses trades.
The Liberal government has introduced amendments to the Act that allow individuals to appeal a notice of contravention from the College to the Ontario Labour Relations Board (OLRB). The College has a mandate to protect the public, the OLRB does not, its primary focus is jurisdictional disputes
Scenario: A labourer mounting electrical panel boards and their associated distribution systems is given a notice of contravention by the College. The OLRB can determine the person does not have a Certificate and is doing work within scope of electrician (breaking the law) but now the OLRB can rescind the College's notice of contravention if they don't see any visible risk to that particular task. The danger in this notion is that what may appear to be a simple task -if done incorrectly- could lead to a hazardous fire and possible serious injury or death. Similar scenarios could play out in any of the compulsory trades, not just construction.
The Certificate of Qualification and compulsory trade status would become meaningless if the OLRB is allowed to break out tasks within a compulsory trade. It also neuters the regulatory body mandated to protect the pubic. Business will benefit from using cheaper labour but the cost could be lives and ultimately higher expenses when work is done improperly. The province takes a massive step back in consumer protection and in promoting skills and training.
Call to Action: Schedule 17 needs to be removed from Bill 70 and sent to committee to allow proper debate and public scrutiny of the impact of these amendments. If passed in its current form, these amendments will increase risks to workers and the public.
Progressive Certified Trades Coalition:

  • Ontario Pipe Trades Council
  • Electrical Contractors Association of Ontario
  • International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers
  • Ontario Sheet Metal Contractors Association
  • Ontario Sheet Metal Workers' & Roofers Conference
  • Canadian Automatic Sprinkler Association
  • UNIFOR
  • Canadian Piping Trades
  • HVACR United Association Ontario Canada Local 787
  • Sprinkler Fitters Ontario U.A. Local 853

SOURCE Progressive Certified Trades Coalition
https://ceo.ca/@newswire/media-advisory-skilled-trades-protest-at-queens
 
inreb said:
It is? When I got mine in the late '80's (since lapsed) it was easy. I understand it's kind of a big deal now. Maybe still easy in Brampton :dontknow:?
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There's courses that help you to just pass the exams... without actually teaching you anything.
 
Neil_V said:
Ontario Collage of Trades has done absolutely nothing for me or my wage since implementation; unless you factor in the 600% increase in license renewal fees. Why aren't they out there restricting who can buy hydraulic brake or steering components, or fuel lines and tanks, for example, even though there is obvious safety concerns for the public at large if those jobs are done poorly/incorrectly.

Just another useless layer of bureaucracy which needs to be eliminated, not just weakened.
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This is what I always heard from tradespeople I talked to.
The complaining sounds like it's all union bluster from bosses that never lost an opportunity to collect a fee (rent-seeking).
The COT always seemed like an arrangement to make labor sound like rocket surgery and take skim off the laborer.
I've saved some money buy doing a lot of work myself, and the actual trades I hired for keeping the job legal and insurable seemed to appreciate not having to jackhammer my basement floor and haul concrete, tear down drywall, drill holes, reinstall sinks and faucets, etc.
Plumbing and electrical always come to mind because mistakes can really f up your house, but if installers of flat surfaces (drywall, wood and tile floors, etc) think their industry is safe from people that have figured out how to cut things and stick them together, they are dreaming.
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