Bill 7 $400 a day for hospital stay

[GreyGhost]

Whenever I bring up the topic with my folks... I'm told I don't have to worry about it.

As in, they have already dealt with it or they are playing the ostrich game and pretending it will never happen?

My parents have a substantial age and ability difference. If something happened to my mom, dad would need support almost immediately. My mom should be ok in the house without my dad for quite a while. Guest bedrooms at my house are up or down stairs and not ideal for elderly. I have a rough plan in place to convert a basically unused dining room to a bedroom if it came down to it. I also have a tentative plan to move their laundry room up to a bedroom so they could avoid stairs in their house if that was required to allow them to stay there. It makes no sense for them to be on lists right now as you only get a couple refusals and then get knocked to the bottom and they are not ready mentally or physically for LTC. Move in with zombies too early and it is mentally brutal. A retirement home may work for them but would cost tens of thousands a year more than their house and they would like it less so it doesn't make sense now.

 

[ReSTored]

A retirement home may work for them but would cost tens of thousands a year more than their house and they would like it less so it doesn't make sense now.

I indicated that retirement homes are about $60k a year, but that is total cost, not incremental. My MIL and her sister each paid about $24K a year in condo fees, property taxes, cable, phone, food etc....... All things covered in the $60k. There condo mortgages long paid off. There are also tax savings as well, so the actual incremental cost is about $30k - $33k. Additional retirement home benefits include excellent restaurant quality food, shuttle bus, planned activities etc........ so there is a whole social dynamic that relatively old and non mobile people benefit from as well vs. being a shut in, especially in winter as this makes it doubly hard to get out and about.

 

[timtune]

Dad died at home. Mom was at home until she went into a hospice.
I'm so glad we never had to deal with LTC.

 

[raginduck]

As in, they have already dealt with it or they are playing the ostrich game and pretending it will never happen?

My parents have a substantial age and ability difference. If something happened to my mom, dad would need support almost immediately. My mom should be ok in the house without my dad for quite a while. Guest bedrooms at my house are up or down stairs and not ideal for elderly. I have a rough plan in place to convert a basically unused dining room to a bedroom if it came down to it. I also have a tentative plan to move their laundry room up to a bedroom so they could avoid stairs in their house if that was required to allow them to stay there. It makes no sense for them to be on lists right now as you only get a couple refusals and then get knocked to the bottom and they are not ready mentally or physically for LTC. Move in with zombies too early and it is mentally brutal. A retirement home may work for them but would cost tens of thousands a year more than their house and they would like it less so it doesn't make sense now.

They've planned for everything.

 

[Relax]

F em. Time to update the will.

Maybe a living will as well in case PoA is ever needed. I wonder which trumps which?

 

[mimico_polak]

I called a home to inquire about 2 years ago for an inlaw.. I just picked the place that provided the level of care needed and was close to the person's home. The place I called started talking about approval, references, planning and waiting lists... when I mentioned we would pay for it ourselves... The tone changed and they said they could accommodate immediately..
He didn't end up needing the home so didn't pursue it.
Based on that experience... I figured as long as it was being paid for privately.. getting a spot wasn't an issue.
Whenever I bring up the topic with my folks... I'm told I don't have to worry about it.


Edit: ReSTored's post#32 answered my question(s).

Same here. Which is frustrating as they're in their early 70s and don't believe in having a will, PoA or anything like that. They're basically hoping that we just take care of things, and happen to agree with my sis on the split.

I'm really not sure how to broach this subject, and last time we did we got met with frustration and hostility 'oh so you guys are just waiting for us to die right?'

Ugh...

 

[GreyGhost]

Same here. Which is frustrating as they're in their early 70s and don't believe in having a will, PoA or anything like that. They're basically hoping that we just take care of things, and happen to agree with my sis on the split.

I'm really not sure how to broach this subject, and last time we did we got met with frustration and hostility 'oh so you guys are just waiting for us to die right?'

Ugh...

Poa is critical. No poa is a mess. For will, use an argument related to probate and government. Will is a way to pass along their lifes work without transferring even more to govt.

You and your sister seem reasonable and can probably agree on asset division. No will and the potential third party executor that gets dropped in may grenade your plans (and take a big chunk of the estate). It would suck to have to sell the cottage because the third party executor wanted to make a quick buck and it is simpler for them to liquidate than use an appraisal that can be challenged.

 

[mimico_polak]

Poa is critical. No poa is a mess. For will, use an argument related to probate and government. Will is a way to pass along their lifes work without transferring even more to govt.

You and your sister seem reasonable and can probably agree on asset division. No will and the potential third party executor that gets dropped in may grenade your plans (and take a big chunk of the estate).

Problem is how to broach is sensitively. That's the problem.

If money is an issue I'm ok splitting the cost 50/50 with my sis if she is. That way mom and dad don't have to pony up for it.

 

[GreyGhost]

Problem is how to broach is sensitively. That's the problem.

If money is an issue I'm ok splitting the cost 50/50 with my sis if she is. That way mom and dad don't have to pony up for it.

"Hey, Mrs MP and I are doing our wills now. Did you know that if you die without a will xxx happens? That would suck, I am glad we are getting the paperwork done. My person said they will do family members for $100 if you want in." You cover what it actually costs. The increment is far less than the time required to unwind the mess after.

 

[mimico_polak]

"Hey, Mrs MP and I are doing our wills now. Did you know that if you die without a will xxx happens? That would suck, I am glad we are getting the paperwork done. My person said they will do family members for $100 if you want in." You cover what it actually costs. The increment is far less than the time required to unwind the mess after.

We had that discussion 7 months ago when we did ours.

2 weeks ago with dad 'hey did you ever get around to doing your will?'

'nah, no time. I need to go rake the leaves at the cottage.'

 

[FullMotoJacket]

"Hey, Mrs MP and I are doing our wills now. Did you know that if you die without a will xxx happens? That would suck

You absolutely need a PoA. If your sole remaining parent goes into hospital an is deemed not capable and there’s no PoA the government will assign one (basically themselves). It’s next to impossible to get revoked, and they will control all the assets. Your dad needs diapers? We’ll put it on the list. Someone will review it next week…….ish. Oh, and we’re selling his house.

 

[GreyGhost]

You absolutely need a PoA. If your sole remaining parent goes into hospital an is deemed not capable and there’s no PoA the government will assign one (basically themselves). It’s next to impossible to get revoked, and they will control all the assets. Your dad needs diapers? We’ll put it on the list. Someone will review it next week…….ish. Oh, and we’re selling the house.

That's also a good argument. "Would you rather have your blood looking after your health or a wanker employed by the gov't?" Sign the damned form.

 

[timtune]

No will is gonna screw you and sis. Sad your ol boy can't see that.

 

[mimico_polak]

No will is gonna screw you and sis. Sad your ol boy can't see that.

I agree with you 100%.

I'll call my sister this week and see how best to broach this.

 

[crankcall]

Tell pop the govt gets LOTS of his money without a will ( and they do) . That should be reason enough. Right it up 50/50 and nobody gets butthurt .
The POA is free , download a form off the web and have witnesses sign it .
Do not get old in Ontario without a poa unless you hate your family because it WILL be a mess .
Pops is not a dumb guy , dont let him “old country” on this


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com

 

[mimico_polak]

Tell pop the govt gets LOTS of his money without a will ( and they do) . That should be reason enough. Right it up 50/50 and nobody gets butthurt .
The POA is free , download a form off the web and have witnesses sign it .
Do not get old in Ontario without a poa unless you hate your family because it WILL be a mess .
Pops is not a dumb guy , dont let him “old country” on this


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com

For sure I'll let him know. He hates paying taxes, but understands it.

I think the concern is always the same:
- who pays the income / capital gains taxes on the cottage and other properties. I sure don't have 150-200k to pay the capital gain on the cottage.
- PoA is def important and in all honesty I don't think he's even given that part any thought (I've mentioned it a few times already)

Then there are the properties in Poland, an investment property, and accounts of course.

 

[GreyGhost]

For sure I'll let him know. He hates paying taxes, but understands it.

I think the concern is always the same:
- who pays the income / capital gains taxes on the cottage and other properties. I sure don't have 150-200k to pay the capital gain on the cottage.
- PoA is def important and in all honesty I don't think he's even given that part any thought (I've mentioned it a few times already)

Then there are the properties in Poland, an investment property, and accounts of course.

My inlaws took out a life insurance policy to cover the CG tax on the cottage so my BIL gets it free and clear. The policy is expensive, I'm not convinced that is the best approach but worth considering. You can even get the policy now if you decide to go this route, you don't need your dad to pay. You probably need his help with a medical exam but maybe not as you aren't pulling a huge policy.

For you/your sister you need to figure out what each person wants (or doesn't want). If the plan is liquidate everything except the cottage and you get it, hopefully there is enough money from your part of everything else to cover CG. You can take a solid educated guess on that with current property values. If you don't know what's in the accounts and they don't want to tell you, treat anything in the accounts as bonus that improves the math you calculated (either they are empty and your math was right or you get 50% of something and you have some money to pay CG). This assumes your parents aren't loaded up with debt that would need to be covered after their passing.

I have no idea about poland but I am executor for a relative with foreign property and those countries require execution inside their borders. I can't do it from here. Theoretically I could fly out and do it but that seems like more trouble than it's worth and I have little knowledge of the political/social procedure to get things done in those countries. I have been provided with the name of trusted contacts in country to deal with those parts of the estate. They will liquidate, take their cut and send money to canada to be disbursed here (with the exception of one piece of physical property that is to be shipped to canada and donated). I assume you have family in poland that could do that if required but it is another thing that is important to work out ahead of time. Have the chat with your dad about who to trust in poland as although uncle Adok may be a treasured relative, he loves the Duch Puszczy which isn't raised in conversation and you wouldn't want him to have control over part of the estate.

 

[ReSTored]

For sure I'll let him know. He hates paying taxes, but understands it.

I think the concern is always the same:
- who pays the income / capital gains taxes on the cottage and other properties. I sure don't have 150-200k to pay the capital gain on the cottage.
- PoA is def important and in all honesty I don't think he's even given that part any thought (I've mentioned it a few times already)

Then there are the properties in Poland, an investment property, and accounts of course.

Who likes paying taxes? I don't.

Maybe you can begin by telling him that having a POA, a living will and a will for both him and spouse is smart planning to minimise taxes, ensure he directs where his money goes, not the government and that being intestate likely means significant delays in administering his estate. Doesn't sound like he would be receptive to be told it's also very selfish and uncaring to dump an unprepared estate on his kids.

First one parent dies and then everything should pass to the survivor. From personal experience even this can be very time consuming to administer if the survivor is not independent as there is tons of paperwork to manage this transition, in particular if the husband dies first as it is more common to have everything in his name vs. that of the spouse.. When the survivor dies probate can take anywhere from 9 - 15 months minimally, so you or your sister should already have planned for this and have joint chequing and savings accounts with the survivor. The house in the city and the cottage can't be sold without probate and you'll be left paying all expenses with no flow of funds from the estate, in particular if your parents do not have wills.

Just about no one owns a cottage and doesn't own a house in the city, so any probate fee, income taxes, lawyer fees, CG taxes will be paid for by the proceeds of the sale of the city house or your parents other investments. Then you and your sister have to decide who gets the cottage, a whole headache in and of itself. With terminal tax returns and then a CRA Clearance Certificate required before final distribution this whole process could take 2 - 3 years to sort out, much longer if no will.

Added to this you'll have the foreign properties + investment properties to sort out as well. Sounds like a nightmare.

Of course, when it's all over, you and your sister will be splitting a minimum of $2.5M to $3M tax free money, if not more, so there's that to console you.

 

[ifiddles]

with regards to capital gains...my understanding was that if a property is inherited there is no capital gains until such time that it's sold? if that's the case, can't the BIL just pay the amount when it's sold from the proceeds of the sale?

 

[GreyGhost]

with regards to capital gains...my understanding was that if a property is inherited there is no capital gains until such time that it's sold? if that's the case, can't the BIL just pay the amount when it's sold from the proceeds of the sale?

There is a deemed disposition at death. In essence, the person that died needs to sell the property to the estate so it can be distributed. This pretend sale triggers cg tax.

Friends recently bought the family cottage from their parents. The deal is the parents use the cottage as if it's their own as long as they can. The kids are responsible for all maintenance and expenses. The kids paid the cg tax and transferred the property. For better or worse, from an estate planning perspective, the cottage was written up at a fixed price. When the parents eventually die, my friend has already received x dollars and their sibling gets that amount prior to splitting anything else. Not sure what happens if x exceeds the value of the estate.