Bicycle Protests

[LePhillou]

Before cars had cup holders, cell phones and electronic orchestras I had no fear of riding the secondary highways from west Toronto to Orangeville, Niagara Falls, Trenton etc. Now I plan short trips in my neighbourhood and take advantage of park routes.

In Toronto you're not supposed to ride on the sidewalk if you're over 14 YO. So a 30 ish mom or dad with a toddler or infant in a bike seat has to ride along Bloor Street???? If you allow them to use the sidewalks it opens the door to a 30 YO Lance Armstrong blasting along the walk.

According to Google maps I could ride my bicycle from the TO Mississauga border to Harbourfront faster than taking the TTC. Under an hour by bike, over an hour by TTC and a half hour by car.

However the bike route prepared by Google would be mostly high volume city streets. I've had my knuckles brushed by door handles and it isn't a comforting feeling. A friend had to hit the ditch to keep from being run over by a moto-texter. No broken bones but he was off work for weeks due to sprains and strains.

Our driving education and subsequent enforcement has to change. More infrastructure without those just gives idiots more places to screw up.

This goes right to the top. You can't change the rules when you cross the Mississauga / Toronto border.

Police have to enforce more than speeding, DUI and red lights. There goes the revenue.

Add DWI to the list of charges, Driving While an Idiot. The fine is a one day course learning why your desire to hog the left lane isn't right and why using a turn signal isn't all that bad. A second charge gets you the week long course. Fines don't work.

Bicycles need to follow the same rules. E-bikes and their ilk have their place but need to be legislated. They need plates and the riders need some form of licence, even like the boat operator's card with ID. It's a written exam that tells you that you can't do anything you want. We were on the Yonge Street sidewalk around noon on a nice summer day and it was crowded. An overweight person on an ebike (Total weight over 500 pounds) was trying to weave through the pedestrians. Further north an ebike was riding the wrong way on Yonge.

We need massive law changes or massive attitude changes. It's not going to happen under current leadership.

Most cyclists "in lycra" are car drivers.

Car drivers did the licensing part.

But as you said, theres a DWI component that also transfers over to cycling. They also tried licensing a few times but it was deemed counterproductive. Most developed countries don't have this type of system even with bigger cycling populations and better infrastructure already in place. Once again, all the laws in the world and signage won't change people's behavior unless they're enforced.

Design it to make it a safe and desirable corridor and you'll get less people breaking laws non stop. If people are breaking laws in the huge numbers that are claimed, then the system is not setup for the users to win.
I mean look at the "cycling" (read multi use) path to the left vs using the road on the right. On my beat up-commuter-single-speed-steel-frame bike, i would normally take less than an hour to ride the path on the right. The one to the left, if i were to respect speed limits would probably take me about as long as the advertised time of 1h20m. Straight lines are just faster and shorter. Difference is, the one on the left is multi-use paths (until martin goodman trail) and the one on the right is riding on the road with cars with little to no cycling infrastructure; royal york onwards is nice, long branch area has painted lines, one block in lakeview/east sauga has a separated lane parallel to the street


vs

 

[killvino]

We could say the same thing for cars or motorcycles. 90 percent of people in a 50 zone aren't driving 50 unless :
- its congested
- the design of the street limits the speed
- they're old

And the police generally doesn't stop someone going 10-15 km/h in their car. So why fuss over a cyclist doing the exact same.

I've seen so many people get tailgated for going the speed limit, it's not what is expected. So someone hops on their bicycle after being a driver for 15-20 years and you expect them to go the speed limit... Or else be ticketed for it? When they've done it without issue at high speed in 2-ton vehicles?
Once again I call bull$hit on a double standard

No problem with allowing specific times for cycling only but going to have to disagree with the double standard part. No one here cries about speed traps and speeding blitzes or getting caught speeding on bike/car. Speed limit is the speed limit, obey the law or risk punishment.

I have friends that have gotten tickets for 10 to 15 over in motor vehicle in a 50. Regardless, 10-15 over in a 50 is a big difference than the same in a 20. You are almost going double the speed expected by others.

Share the road, follow the rules. Goes for everyone on it.
Also might be stretch for Torontonians but be courteous and think of others.

 

[woot]

Most cyclists "in lycra" are car drivers.

Car drivers did the licensing part.

But as you said, theres a DWI component that also transfers over to cycling. They also tried licensing a few times but it was deemed counterproductive. Most developed countries don't have this type of system even with bigger cycling populations and better infrastructure already in place. Once again, all the laws in the world and signage won't change people's behavior unless they're enforced.

Design it to make it a safe and desirable corridor and you'll get less people breaking laws non stop. If people are breaking laws in the huge numbers that are claimed, then the system is not setup for the users to win.
I mean look at the "cycling" (read multi use) path to the left vs using the road on the right. On my beat up-commuter-single-speed-steel-frame bike, i would normally take less than an hour to ride the path on the right. The one to the left, if i were to respect speed limits would probably take me about as long as the advertised time of 1h20m. Straight lines are just faster and shorter. Difference is, the one on the left is multi-use paths (until martin goodman trail) and the one on the right is riding on the road with cars with little to no cycling infrastructure; royal york onwards is nice, long branch area has painted lines, one block in lakeview/east sauga has a separated lane parallel to the street


View attachment 56610vs View attachment 56611

And pedestrians have to walk to cross walks sometimes which are out of their way. Sometimes in life you are inconvenienced.

There are actually times when riding the bike is more convenient. For example if I were to ride a bike to work it would be 6km shorter on the trans canada trail then taking hwy 7. Also, flexibility to get around traffic, switch to sidewalks as needed.

That being said I agree with your principle that if everyone's breaking the law then it not an effective law (and usually gets applied with prejudice to boot) remove all laws against/for as-well-as special treatment for any special interest groups imo. Everyone treat each other with respect and if someone is being a dick then kick in their rim like Raginduck

 

[LePhillou]

No problem with allowing specific times for cycling only but going to have to disagree with the double standard part. No one here cries about speed traps and speeding blitzes or getting caught speeding on bike/car. Speed limit is the speed limit, obey the law or risk punishment.

I have friends that have gotten tickets for 10 to 15 over in motor vehicle in a 50. Regardless, 10-15 over in a 50 is a big difference than the same in a 20. You are almost going double the speed expected by others.

Share the road, follow the rules. Goes for everyone on it.
Also might be stretch for Torontonians but be courteous and think of others.

The limit isn't the limit. Otherwise everyone going over 50 would be ticketed. It's a grey zone that depends on how the police officer is feeling that day.
You wouldn't have people passing cop cars on the highway at 120 comfortably or have people drive 130 and not get tickets.

While i do agree that it's a bigger percentage of speed differential (50% increase from 20kph to 30kph) it's way more of an annoyance, than a danger if you compare to other motor vehicles and the outcome of collisions at those exact same speeds.
In the end, i'll just be sticking to riding on the road early in the morning to avoid all the drama as it's my privilege to be able to get up early like that lol

 

[mimico_polak]

I'd done the ride as per @LePhillou's map...it is such a pain to try and follow the trail from Etobicoke to Port Credit. It goes in toward the lake, and then out toward Lakeshore...then back in, and back out. Good luck finding the wayfinding arrows (this was a while ago so it may be clearer now).

Much easier to just ride along Lakeshore as it's a straight shot.

Fact is we will never have sufficient infrastructure to satisfy bikes, transit users, and everyone else that wants it.

The weather isn't there for all year use, the demand isn't there, and unless global warming increases temps by 10-15C...it won't happen. Same as motorcycling is in such small numbers...we're a hobby. Not for real transportation (for the vast majority).

Comparing our bicycling numbers to other countries like England, Netherlands, or any other warmer climate is silly. Will never reach those numbers, even with the added infrastructure.

 

[LePhillou]

I'd done the ride as per @LePhillou's map...it is such a pain to try and follow the trail from Etobicoke to Port Credit. It goes in toward the lake, and then out toward Lakeshore...then back in, and back out. Good luck finding the wayfinding arrows (this was a while ago so it may be clearer now).

Much easier to just ride along Lakeshore as it's a straight shot.

Fact is we will never have sufficient infrastructure to satisfy bikes, transit users, and everyone else that wants it.

The weather isn't there for all year use, the demand isn't there, and unless global warming increases temps by 10-15C...it won't happen. Same as motorcycling is in such small numbers...we're a hobby. Not for real transportation (for the vast majority).

Comparing our bicycling numbers to other countries like England, Netherlands, or any other warmer climate is silly. Will never reach those numbers, even with the added infrastructure.

There are changes coming to that corridor (lakeshore in sauga) as 25k people will be moving in in the next 5-10 years between lakeview village and brightwater alone...and a bunch of condos are going up in between. So they're reconfiguring everything. In the end, if i, when i was overweight could pick it up and ride to downtown toronto in an hour when it used to take about the same amount of time to drive there pre-covid, once people are stuck in perpetual traffic with high gas prices they'll start considering other options.

 

[mimico_polak]

There are changes coming to that corridor (lakeshore in sauga) as 25k people will be moving in in the next 5-10 years between lakeview village and brightwater alone...and a bunch of condos are going up in between. So they're reconfiguring everything. In the end, if i, when i was overweight could pick it up and ride to downtown toronto in an hour when it used to take about the same amount of time to drive there pre-covid, once people are stuck in perpetual traffic with high gas prices they'll start considering other options.

They will...and the GO trains will be the primary mode of transport to Union. Personally I love the GO. I wish my office was still downtown as it's an easy commute from Erindale Station.

Don't tell my boss but I'm applying for other roles within the organization which still maintain offices at Union Station LOL

 

[Mad Mike]

We could say the same thing for cars or motorcycles. 90 percent of people in a 50 zone aren't driving 50 unless :
- its congested
- the design of the street limits the speed
- they're old

And the police generally doesn't stop someone going 10-15 km/h in their car. So why fuss over a cyclist doing the exact same.

I've seen so many people get tailgated for going the speed limit, it's not what is expected. So someone hops on their bicycle after being a driver for 15-20 years and you expect them to go the speed limit... Or else be ticketed for it? When they've done it without issue at high speed in 2-ton vehicles?
Once again I call bull$hit on a double standard

Random Anecdote : was enjoying ice cream by myself on lakeshore in South missisauga this evening on a regular Wednesday night. I saw probably 6-7 casual cyclists use the sidewalk in 15 minutes. Probably ranging from. 15y old to 35 y old. Why? There's no infrastructure to get places and lakeshore is too busy (actually only lycra squad or advanced cyclists will feel comfortable enough to cycle on the road there generally) . People will argue that about 500m south of there there's a multi use trail so "they don't use the infrastructure) . But people who need to go places won't make a detour of about 1km to be able to go from point A to point B over small trips, they'll take the unlawful shortcut.
If you don't design proper infrastructure, you create friction points between the various users of your "interface" which leads to undesirable scenarios.

I don't think the issue is cyclists going 65 in a 50 zone, it's cyclists going 50-65 in a 20km zone, then blowing the stop signs as if they are not even there. The average ticket during the High Park blitz was around $125, which puts the average infraction at more than double the speed limit.

As for the infrastructure argument, you could use that for everything in transportation. If I want to use a bus, I walk 500m in the wrong direction to the nearest bus stop. The train? that's 800m out of my way. A highway - i have to drive 1.5km! So inconvenient.

 

[raginduck]

We could say the same thing for cars or motorcycles. 90 percent of people in a 50 zone aren't driving 50 unless :
- its congested
- the design of the street limits the speed
- they're old

And the police generally doesn't stop someone going 10-15 km/h in their car. So why fuss over a cyclist doing the exact same.

I've seen so many people get tailgated for going the speed limit, it's not what is expected. So someone hops on their bicycle after being a driver for 15-20 years and you expect them to go the speed limit... Or else be ticketed for it? When they've done it without issue at high speed in 2-ton vehicles?
Once again I call bull$hit on a double standard

Random Anecdote : was enjoying ice cream by myself on lakeshore in South missisauga this evening on a regular Wednesday night. I saw probably 6-7 casual cyclists use the sidewalk in 15 minutes. Probably ranging from. 15y old to 35 y old. Why? There's no infrastructure to get places and lakeshore is too busy (actually only lycra squad or advanced cyclists will feel comfortable enough to cycle on the road there generally) . People will argue that about 500m south of there there's a multi use trail so "they don't use the infrastructure) . But people who need to go places won't make a detour of about 1km to be able to go from point A to point B over small trips, they'll take the unlawful shortcut.
If you don't design proper infrastructure, you create friction points between the various users of your "interface" which leads to undesirable scenarios.

That was a legit question.. not me trying to debate..
Are cyclists allowed to go the speed limit, same as autos?.. and I'm not sure how fast those folks can go.. can riders go fast enough to ride at the speed limits on roads that are say 80kph?

 

[Dirty Frank]

My only take away from this is of all the possible make work projects for TPS to pursue why in the heck would they take this on?

 

[GreyGhost]

I don't think the issue is cyclists going 65 in a 50 zone, it's cyclists going 50-65 in a 20km zone, then blowing the stop signs as if they are not even there. The average ticket during the High Park blitz was around $125, which puts the average infraction at more than double the speed limit.

As for the infrastructure argument, you could use that for everything in transportation. If I want to use a bus, I walk 500m in the wrong direction to the nearest bus stop. The train? that's 800m out of my way. A highway - i have to drive 1.5km! So inconvenient.

All wording I can find is strange. I can't find anything that says the average fine was $125 but almost every source says the fine was $125. It sounds like they were set up at the bottom of a hill. Maybe if you were over xx (50 km/h???) they gave you a flat $125 ticket? No ticket is $125 according to math (26.5 km/h over would be but I don't think that is an option). I can't find any applicable flat $125 fine that would apply.

Just for fun, here's a quote from the sun from the 2021 blitz "Nick Rentas tweeted: “This is hilarious. They are giving tickets to bikers while parked on a sidewalk forcing the old guy with a cane to walk on the bike lane? Toronto Police rethink approach. Can’t make this stuff up.”"

 

[GreyGhost]

My only take away from this is of all the possible make work projects for TPS to pursue why in the heck would they take this on?

Somebody influential was upset. This was obviously a political target not related to any injury statistics (as with most targeted campaigns).

 

[LePhillou]

I don't think the issue is cyclists going 65 in a 50 zone, it's cyclists going 50-65 in a 20km zone, then blowing the stop signs as if they are not even there. The average ticket during the High Park blitz was around $125, which puts the average infraction at more than double the speed limit.

As for the infrastructure argument, you could use that for everything in transportation. If I want to use a bus, I walk 500m in the wrong direction to the nearest bus stop. The train? that's 800m out of my way. A highway - i have to drive 1.5km! So inconvenient.

To hit 50-65 easily for the common mortal you need a downhill. A bike tour pro in a time trial which are usually much flatter than mountain stages, will avg 29-30mph(45-50kph), that barely overlaps the extrapolated 50-65km/h. So if they setup at the bottom of the hill to trap people, good for them but i don't think that is representative of the whole image and makes it even more hypocritical, imo. I also don't know if the fine structure used was the same one as cars. (So i guess that answers part of @raginduck question too...)

For infrastructure, let's take this simple example not too far from my place. Do you think most teens would take the 2km route or the 1km route to go get starbucks.
1km is straight, they'd ride the sidewalk as there's no infrastructure on the road, or they can take the scenic detour that's also a multi-use path that has a big incline and is technically twice the distance. Most people will use the path of least resistance but riding on the sidewalk is not safe for pedestrians. That's just one example, but all along this trail you get the same thing over and over again. The thing here isn't that there isn't space for better, continuous infrastructure... it's just that it's not being done.
And don't get me started on our shoddy "last mile" coverage. But that comes with the territory when we've got tons of sprawl in urban and suburban settings.

 

[nobbie48]

Most cyclists "in lycra" are car drivers.

Car drivers did the licensing part.

But as you said, theres a DWI component that also transfers over to cycling. They also tried licensing a few times but it was deemed counterproductive. Most developed countries don't have this type of system even with bigger cycling populations and better infrastructure already in place. Once again, all the laws in the world and signage won't change people's behavior unless they're enforced.

Design it to make it a safe and desirable corridor and you'll get less people breaking laws non stop. If people are breaking laws in the huge numbers that are claimed, then the system is not setup for the users to win.
I mean look at the "cycling" (read multi use) path to the left vs using the road on the right. On my beat up-commuter-single-speed-steel-frame bike, i would normally take less than an hour to ride the path on the right. The one to the left, if i were to respect speed limits would probably take me about as long as the advertised time of 1h20m. Straight lines are just faster and shorter. Difference is, the one on the left is multi-use paths (until martin goodman trail) and the one on the right is riding on the road with cars with little to no cycling infrastructure; royal york onwards is nice, long branch area has painted lines, one block in lakeview/east sauga has a separated lane parallel to the street


View attachment 56610vs View attachment 56611

Just thoughts:

Riding in High Park is mostly recreational and totally different from commuting.

Infrastructure include amenities at work so you don't arrive looking like sweat hog.

Secure parking for bicycles is an issue. Respect for the bikes is another. My wife regularly saw people using hers as a seat.

I grew up just off Roncesvalles before every area in the city had a cutesy name. I could walk to three hardware stores faster than I could drive. Those stores are now boutiques and the big box stores are driving distances away.

I was in that area yesterday and it should be a great walk-to location because finding parking is a nightmare. SIL lived on Sunnyside for a while and a family visit meant dropping the family off at her place and driving around for a half hour to find a spot for the car.

In the burbs you don't see a lot of bicycle racks in public spaces.

Stats from 30 years ago from Pearson, Toronto was at 40°F or colder 43% of the year. Hourly data summaries. Not riding temps for a lot of people then throw in the "Too hot, too wet, too windy days."

It would be interesting to see the results of a pole asking the general public "If you were offered a free ride in a car to a destination or you were give a free bike rental which would you regularly take?" Gag Line: "I took on a diet and exercise program. The hardest day of my life."

Diets and exercise have dismal long term results.

It's easy to look sexy in a hot car but to be sexy a bike does a better job.

Re the Port Credit / Refinery development, What roads are being expanded to handle the increased traffic?

The list of obstacles is almost endless. In any personal crisis there is a typical response pattern. Denial, anger, negotiation, atonement and acceptance. With climate change most people are at stage 1 or 2.

 

[Baggsy]

To hit 50-65 easily for the common mortal you need a downhill. A bike tour pro in a time trial which are usually much flatter than mountain stages, will avg 29-30mph(45-50kph), that barely overlaps the extrapolated 50-65km/h. So if they setup at the bottom of the hill to trap people, good for them but i don't think that is representative of the whole image and makes it even more hypocritical, imo. I also don't know if the fine structure used was the same one as cars. (So i guess that answers part of @raginduck question too...)

For infrastructure, let's take this simple example not too far from my place. Do you think most teens would take the 2km route or the 1km route to go get starbucks.
1km is straight, they'd ride the sidewalk as there's no infrastructure on the road, or they can take the scenic detour that's also a multi-use path that has a big incline and is technically twice the distance. Most people will use the path of least resistance but riding on the sidewalk is not safe for pedestrians. That's just one example, but all along this trail you get the same thing over and over again. The thing here isn't that there isn't space for better, continuous infrastructure... it's just that it's not being done.
And don't get me started on our shoddy "last mile" coverage. But that comes with the territory when we've got tons of sprawl in urban and suburban settings.
View attachment 56613

Wife is riding her bike to work today.
It's 8.4 kilometres along the mixed use paths, 7.6 along the highway, and 8.0 via the roads.
Guess which way she's taking?

I used to ride to work in Toronto. Fastest way would have been straight along King St, but I normally took the Goodman Trail.

On the motorcycle, I'd cut through High Park and the Exhibition.
When they shut the middle of High Park, I'd stop and walk the bike around the barrier.

People aren't automatically destined to go the laziest way, but the new "infrastructure" seems to assume so.

Anyways, you're now referring to the commuting through crowd which is going to be different than the crowd that wants to train in High Park, and different from the crowd who commute to High Park, to do something besides cycling.

Edit: I think those $125 tickets are one size fits all generic city issued tickets, like you'd get for littering, or jaywalking.

 

[LePhillou]

Just thoughts:

Riding in High Park is mostly recreational and totally different from commuting.

Infrastructure include amenities at work so you don't arrive looking like sweat hog.

Secure parking for bicycles is an issue. Respect for the bikes is another. My wife regularly saw people using hers as a seat.

I grew up just off Roncesvalles before every area in the city had a cutesy name. I could walk to three hardware stores faster than I could drive. Those stores are now boutiques and the big box stores are driving distances away.

I was in that area yesterday and it should be a great walk-to location because finding parking is a nightmare. SIL lived on Sunnyside for a while and a family visit meant dropping the family off at her place and driving around for a half hour to find a spot for the car.

In the burbs you don't see a lot of bicycle racks in public spaces.

Stats from 30 years ago from Pearson, Toronto was at 40°F or colder 43% of the year. Hourly data summaries. Not riding temps for a lot of people then throw in the "Too hot, too wet, too windy days."

It would be interesting to see the results of a pole asking the general public "If you were offered a free ride in a car to a destination or you were give a free bike rental which would you regularly take?" Gag Line: "I took on a diet and exercise program. The hardest day of my life."

Diets and exercise have dismal long term results.

It's easy to look sexy in a hot car but to be sexy a bike does a better job.

Re the Port Credit / Refinery development, What roads are being expanded to handle the increased traffic?

The list of obstacles is almost endless. In any personal crisis there is a typical response pattern. Denial, anger, negotiation, atonement and acceptance. With climate change most people are at stage 1 or 2.

Walkability depends on distance. Depends on "comfort" of walking there like an 80km/h road doesn't feel as comfortable as a 40km/h one or 1 meter sidewalks vs wider sidewalks
Having those types of setups where businesses are below homes encourages walkability. Having separation from the road (protected bike lane or even parking) increases the feeling of comfort. It's just that when roads are designed, car traffic speed and volume (the higher the better) was the original top priority, the problem with that is it puts safety of other road users on the backburner. And then eventually you get some roads that get patch work done to make parts of it a bit safer... to show "they care", after a few too many pedestrians get hit.

Bike racks arent a lot to ask for and you can put in requests easily through the city from what i understand.

Temps are a huge issue... but we're canadian, we have winters. People do skiing and snowmobiling and others for fun and it's just a matter of being well dressed and showing a bit of stoicism. But having very poor/dangerous infrastructure any time we have a dusting of snow due to a lack of plowing will hinder a lot of people's efforts. People do bike in winter around the world... and the numbers increase when you have proper infrastructure that's well maintained. See the following

The REV : an express bike network

Le REV, Réseau express vélo, est un projet de voie cyclable de 184 km qui sera réparti sur l’ensemble du territoire de l'île de Montréal.

montreal.ca

They've seen numbers skyrocket in use once they set it up. And they actually get real winters over there compared to us.

For Port credit its just lakeshore..., adding a Bus Rapid Transit line (which will connect to the new LRT!) and more straighthrough bike lanes, protected for the most part...because everything connects to lakeshore lol. They want to make the new communities "self sustainable" meaning everything walking distance and i think they changed the parking requirements (not sure?) so there won't be as many cars there. They're planning shuttles from the brightwater development to the GO station among other things.
Time will tell

My commute made me lose so much weight when i started... it's worth a while. And then maybe you can even dump the gym membership for a bit. I miss having a "place to get to" on the bike. Now i do it for fitness mainly thanks to work from home lol.

 

[timtune]

A bunch of cyclist wouldn't "share the road" to let me by when I honked. I pulled the killer onto the shoulder and when by them in full roost mode. Eat dust wankers.

 

[backmarkerducati]

I live in the west end and ride, walk a lot of these trails for exercise on a very regular basis. None of the mixed use trails are a place to fly, none. Speed limit is 20 kph.

The HTA requires all bikes to have a bell/horn, it also requires front and rear reflectors or reflecting tape (white and red). Many of the TdF wannabe crowd do not have these (oh the extra weight and aerodynamic drag!), so extra fines, and these do get blitzes now and again.... Most bikes do not have a speedometer (not required) but obviously some have a computer etc. but in general most riders do not know their exact speed like a car or motorcycle.

As for High Park there are much better options to "go fast", it is just too busy. I still ride there time to time to get somewhere else... The main speed problem with the park is the hills and just riding down the hills coasting you easily exceed the speed limit (going north to south). Downhill I need to ride the brakes in these cases but I actually prefer to go south to north as it is obviously much easier to regulate speed going up.

Lakeshore trail, Humber trail etc. have sections that are busy and others that are dead. The problem with mixed use trails is entitlement, cyclists and other users. There are bad cyclists that stop in a group block the trail, ride in huge groups or are just flying in crowded areas (specially e-bikes at 30+kph!). As I am out for exercise the fact that they do not go in a straight line is nice and the trail needs to be shared.

At the same time it is a trail with a 20km speed limit yet people stand in a crowd blocking the entire trail and won't move. Joggers stopped in the middle with their headphones on. Or people that walk with their large extended family and have the kids running back and forth blocking the entire trail, even when they hear someone coming.

The worst IMO are entitled dog people blocking the entire trail with the dog on one side and them on the other with the leash across the trail... why not stay with the dog and not block the trail so others can use it??? this is incredibly dangerous for other users and for the dog????? Or worse yet off leash in a non-off leash areas with the uncontrolled dog darting all over the place or one that chases bikes, wtf. Personally I care enough for my pets to not put them at risk by indulging my entitlement. Most dog owners are actually pretty decent with well behaved dogs and they realize it is a shared trail with other users and not just for them.

As for bell or "on your left". The problem with the bell is many times people hear it and dart in some random direction, or like a car horn at a red light get all upset, how dare you ding/honk at me! The simple on your left or right (should really only ever be left) is the better all around option in most cases.

The poster child for bad bike lanes, Queens Quay, what a mess!

 

[GreyGhost]

I live in the west end and ride, walk a lot of these trails for exercise on a very regular basis. None of the mixed use trails are a place to fly, none. Speed limit is 20 kph.

The HTA requires all bikes to have a bell/horn, it also requires front and rear reflectors or reflecting tape (white and red). Many of the TdF wannabe crowd do not have these (oh the extra weight and aerodynamic drag!), so extra fines, and these do get blitzes now and again.... Most bikes do not have a speedometer (not required) but obviously some have a computer etc. but in general most riders do not know their exact speed like a car or motorcycle.

As for High Park there are much better options to "go fast", it is just too busy. I still ride there time to time to get somewhere else... The main speed problem with the park is the hills and just riding down the hills coasting you easily exceed the speed limit (going north to south). Downhill I need to ride the brakes in these cases but I actually prefer to go south to north as it is obviously much easier to regulate speed going up.

Lakeshore trail, Humber trail etc. have sections that are busy and others that are dead. The problem with mixed use trails is entitlement, cyclists and other users. There are bad cyclists that stop in a group block the trail, ride in huge groups or are just flying in crowded areas (specially e-bikes at 30+kph!). As I am out for exercise the fact that they do not go in a straight line is nice and the trail needs to be shared.

At the same time it is a trail with a 20km speed limit yet people stand in a crowd blocking the entire trail and won't move. Joggers stopped in the middle with their headphones on. Or people that walk with their large extended family and have the kids running back and forth blocking the entire trail, even when they hear someone coming.

The worst IMO are entitled dog people blocking the entire trail with the dog on one side and them on the other with the leash across the trail... why not stay with the dog and not block the trail so others can use it??? this is incredibly dangerous for other users and for the dog????? Or worse yet off leash in a non-off leash areas with the uncontrolled dog darting all over the place or one that chases bikes, wtf. Personally I care enough for my pets to not put them at risk by indulging my entitlement. Most dog owners are actually pretty decent with well behaved dogs and they realize it is a shared trail with other users and not just for them.

As for bell or "on your left". The problem with the bell is many times people hear it and dart in some random direction, or like a car horn at a red light get all upset, how dare you ding/honk at me! The simple on your left or right (should really only ever be left) is the better all around option in most cases.

The poster child for bad bike lanes, Queens Quay, what a mess!

I've seen the leash across the trail result in a crash. Dog owner then tried to attack biker for hurting her dog. Stupid entitled twat. Felt bad for the dog.

 

[justride]

Police ticking bicyclists and monitoring Hells Angles memorial run. We have way too many police officers in Toronto!