Anybody tired of the Teacher's Strikes?

[ChrisCBR]

Another classic haters gonna hate GTAM thread...

You must be a teacher..

If the free market decided what they were worth (like the majority of jobs out there) they would be getting substantially less compensation.
Why do you think we had an epidemic of young teachers having to wait 3-7 years for a full time gig?
Because the 13 weeks off, gold plated pension, dreamy benefits, never having to work at night, on the weekend or on a holiday ever again in your life.

The teachers and their union have been trying to spin it as if they are fighting for the kids when we all know the truth of the matter.
They had the audacity to go on TV and make the claim that the vast majority of the general public were in support of them.
The only people supporting them are themselves and their families.

They are always whining about how hard they have it. You know why?
because the majority of them are middle aged woman who have never held another job other than a public sector union job.

I know 2 middle aged men who are public sector high school teachers. Both worked in the private sector before teaching.
They tell me their job is great and we laugh at the other whiny idiot teachers.

 

[ChrisCBR]

You should see what parents demand of teachers and how much more care each kid takes. When you were in school kids were more disciplined and teachers could actually teach. Now parents drop off their spoiled royalty and are livid when they don't get As.

Where do you think the current snowflake mentality, feminism, social justice, trophies for all, lack of discipline originated from?

Considering teachers are responsible for a big chunk of a child's upbringing I actually support higher wages to get better teachers. People complain about teacher incompetence because that's what 60k gets you. Really where are we headed as a society if we start cutting education? The world is shrinking and competition is fierce. Do we want to compete for assembly line jobs or highly skilled industries that require a lot of education? Cutting education won't get us out of debt, making more money with educated people will.

Like I said in my previous post. They are getting far more than they would in a free market system.
Higher wages dont equal better teachers. They might actually equal worse teachers because you have incentivized people who dont care about teaching to become teachers.

I took Mathematics in University and many of my teachers (whom had PhDs and were making $150+K) were awful.

There is very little accountability either way... when was the last time you heard a teacher getting canned because they sucked......... never.
Thats another perk.. job security.

 

[AllistonGT]

I'm in the trades. Worked with a guy for a few years that left to become a teacher, to teach a shop class in high school full time. He dropped in a few years later and I asked him how was the move to teaching? He said he has never made so much money, doing so little work in his life!

He wasn't the best cabinet maker thats for sure. Those who can do, those who can't, teach.

 

[Mad Mike]

...I know 2 middle aged men who are public sector high school teachers. Both worked in the private sector before teaching.
They tell me their job is great and we laugh at the other whiny idiot teachers.

My brother in law just retired from teaching, he did 33 years and retired with a full pension of $72K at age 58. He worked in the private sector before entering teaching as an automotive engineer got GM, he went to teaching simply for the time off, reduced workload and the pension.

He realistically worked 40 hours a week, and according to him that was about 10 hours more than his peers. He got lots of time off - 13 weeks paid leave, and 2 additional weeks during exams plus 3 PA days. Some years he taught summer school 1/2 days for 4 weeks, earning an additional $6K/summer. He used to call landing that job a "lottery win", that sentiment waned over time and as he got older he became more left leaning.

He claims that's conditioning from the job, he had to drink the KoolAid.

 

[justride]

Think it's a bad idea for The Ministry of Education to implement any curriculum and the delivery they wish. Parents, teachers, students should have a say. Even if you voted for Doug Ford, you should say/do something. if he does something you don't like. Even union members have internal conflict and don't agree with their leaders.
Having a strong union are very reasons why students have so many opportunities and extra activities that they are missing out at the moment.
My daughter is bummed out that skiing and skating are canceled but she be will ok
What you have in terms of wages, job security, working conditions. Can be taken away just like anything else. You have to continue to fight.
Being a teacher you don't have to be the best in the subject matter teaching. For example, your basketball or hockey coach. He or she doesn't have slam dunk or shoot a 100mph slap shot. They need to teach our kids how to achieve those things with encouragement.

 

[ChrisCBR]

Think it's a bad idea for The Ministry of Education to implement any curriculum and the delivery they wish. Parents, teachers, students should have a say.

The tax payers who pay for it all should have a say also.
Why do you think students should have a say?
Since when did 4-18 year olds get the right to have a say in things like this?

Having a strong union are very reasons why students have so many opportunities and extra activities that they are missing out at the moment.

No it isnt, the union is only interested in themselves, they really couldnt care less about extra activities etc But they will certainly pretend they do

 

[FullMotoJacket]

when was the last time you heard a teacher getting canned because they sucked......... never.

I know one that has been in the psyche ward three times, the last time he received electro shock therapy (they STILL do that?). Still "a little off". Still teaching.

 

[justride]

Well, kids will tell their parent's about what happing in the classroom. ie. there are too many kids in the class, I need more help in the subject, the subject I want is not being offered, At age 18. I think you can vote.
I think most teachers do really care about the well being of the students and enjoy the extra actives (supposed to be fun)
Yes there are teachers who just skate by, but that is everywhere

 

[Mad Mike]

Think it's a bad idea for The Ministry of Education to implement any curriculum and the delivery they wish.

That's not the way it works (exception: when McGinty gov't eliminated arithmetic -- now we have a generation who can't multiply 8x8 in their heads). The gov't is elected and chartered to manage the curriculum. Individual parents, teachers, taxpayers should have a say - that's called a vote and public consulting. The Union should not have a say, more importantly they should not have bargaining control over the curriculum and delivery. If I as a parent decide that my kids would benefit from taking additional on-line classes, or even gain some scheduling flexibility by taking online classes -- why should teachers unions have a Veto on that?

Having a strong union are very reasons why students have so many opportunities and extra activities that they are missing out at the moment.
My daughter is bummed out that skiing and skating are canceled but she be will ok

Now I'm confused -- they great union provided extra curricular activities, then they didn't? I did a ton of volunteer work at schools, I sadly watched a local school that produced OFSSA contenders in several sports since the 60's drop of the athletic face of the earth due to teacher apathy.

 

[J_F]

never understood why degree qualified professionals would need a union

the cop union should also be disbanded, often is involved in obstruction of justice

 

[Hack]

Almost all unions in canada at this point are a pox on society (and surprise, surprise, most are focused on the public sector as that is the only place that can afford their BS).

From my experience, public sector unions despite all their foibles and corruption are a necessary evil.
The level of incompetence within management inside the public sector is unfukkin believable.
Sure, everyone want's more money, but from where I sit my Union is the only thing keeping the employer in check when it comes to the their outright lies and bad decisions that put us all at severe risk.

 

[PrivatePilot]

If the free market decided what they were worth (like the majority of jobs out there) they would be getting substantially less compensation.

You mean like the USA where teachers DO get paid a pittance compared to what they make here?

And the quality of the teachers that result, and the actual education of the students the schools output as a result oh so clearly shows it?

 

[justride]

In regards to extra activities. I meant to say that they would not even exist if the teacher weren't involved. My daughter went skiing 2 out of 3 years in junior high.
And E-learning I didn't take into account the flexibility it offers the student. (Some students work, take care of parents/siblings/grandparents ect. Although I don't have any proof to back it up. I believe a in class is better.

 

[AllistonGT]

Yes there are teachers who just skate by, but that is everywhere

Nope. "skate by" where I am you won't last. You see the privet sector is there to produce wealth, provide jobs and grow the economy. Public sector has absolutely none of those concerns.

 

[Mad Mike]

Nope. "skate by" where I am you won't last. You see the privet sector is there to produce wealth, provide jobs and grow the economy. Public sector has absolutely none of those concerns.

You make another good point -- accountability. If you're teaching at a private school, learning academy, business (hell, even hockey school!) you have learner outcome accountability. You have a scorecard and targets and metrics, observers and learner results get plugged in and you are able to be graded against your peers. If you miss, you get direction and development plans to improve those outcomes, if you can't make the grade over time -- you're determined 'not fit for this role'.

Union contracts prohibit the learner outcomes be used to grade a teacher's performance.

 

[Mad Mike]

In regards to extra activities. I meant to say that they would not even exist if the teacher weren't involved. My daughter went skiing 2 out of 3 years in junior high.

You know that is part of the role?

And E-learning I didn't take into account the flexibility it offers the student. (Some students work, take care of parents/siblings/grandparents ect. Although I don't have any proof to back it up. I believe a in class is better.

e-Learning does require more self discipline, but it's not out of the realm of normal. There are plenty of subjects and lessons within a teacher led program that can be delivered as effectively electronically in-class or remotely. It also offers other benefits: enrichment opportunities for students that are interested or capable of absorbing more than what the daily dose of classroom instruction offers; slower pace for students that require more time to learn; and of schedule flexibility. Learning management system also have curated content and learning pathways that may or may not be part of the curriculum credit but interesting or important useful learning.

 

[justride]

There is gotta be somebody doing just enough to get by? Anyhow private sector have no obligation but to make money. Creating jobs , grow the economy are the government/ public sectors job

 

[J_F]

You mean like the USA where teachers DO get paid a pittance compared to what they make here?

And the quality of the teachers that result, and the actual education of the students the schools output as a result oh so clearly shows it?

I think there's more at play there
the troublesome states where education system is a disaster
all have GOP run state houses

they have cut corporate tax rates to zero
and often give cash incentives for companies to relocate
they pass right to work legislation that results in no unions

so they have eroded the tax base to what you can steal from minimum wage earners
can't run much of any programs with that going on

anyone makes any noise about it they get labeled Socialist
sad state of affairs

many of them have an infant mortality rate comparable to a developing country

 

[daught]

Where do you think the current snowflake mentality, feminism, social justice, trophies for all, lack of discipline originated from?


Like I said in my previous post. They are getting far more than they would in a free market system.
Higher wages dont equal better teachers. They might actually equal worse teachers because you have incentivized people who dont care about teaching to become teachers.

I took Mathematics in University and many of my teachers (whom had PhDs and were making $150+K) were awful.

There is very little accountability either way... when was the last time you heard a teacher getting canned because they sucked......... never.
Thats another perk.. job security.

"Higher wages dont equal better ________." Fill in the blank with any other job and it starts to sound ridiculous. Do you really want kids education to go to the lowest bidder? That did not work too well for the trucking industry.

I definitely agree with the lack of accountability when it comes to every public sector job and some unions. Get rid of job security and seniority. Have people compete on who does a better job, not who can undercut more.

 

[AllistonGT]

There is gotta be somebody doing just enough to get by? Anyhow private sector have no obligation but to make money. Creating jobs , grow the economy are the government/ public sectors job

Lol. The government is obliged to create an environment for the private sector to grow the economy.


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