Anybody else notice this at the gas stations???

Snobike Mike said:
Without exhaustively researching it, your car appears to have a main fuel tank of 13.7 gallons (which would be 51.78 litres for US gallon and closer to 58 liters for Imp gallons) and may even have a 2 gallon reserve tank which would mean 55 litre fill ups are quite possible.
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Thats interesting. Thanks for the explanations...however driving it for 5 years Im pretty aware of my car. The reserve is probably around 5 litres. Pumping at different places gives me different results, but none as bogus as that one. Somewhat of an outlier

Gas stations are franchised and im pretty sure its not unheard of that owners can tweak machines. Just like some stations have been caught adding water to the fuel.

In any case, just like with anything, its objective.

(Btw that was before the pump at st. Clair and birchmount was renovated. Now it seems more realistic)


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msatrakkoic said:
Thats interesting. Thanks for the explanations...however driving it for 5 years Im pretty aware of my car. The reserve is probably around 5 litres.
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But that's the point. Your tank is probably over 60 L with the reserve which is both more than the 50L you stated your tank was and also more than enough room to put 55L into. Unless you are somehow measuring the unladen volume of your tank before filling you have no way of confirming that the pump is in fact showing a higher quantity than was pumped into your tank.

Cheers.
 
msatrakkoic said:
Thats interesting. Thanks for the explanations...however driving it for 5 years Im pretty aware of my car. The reserve is probably around 5 litres. Pumping at different places gives me different results, but none as bogus as that one. Somewhat of an outlier

Gas stations are franchised and im pretty sure its not unheard of that owners can tweak machines. Just like some stations have been caught adding water to the fuel.

In any case, just like with anything, its objective.

(Btw that was before the pump at st. Clair and birchmount was renovated. Now it seems more realistic)


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Click to expand...

It is true that a pump can get out of spec. In the late 80's, I filled at this one gas station I frequented, and they managed to pump in around 15 Litres over capacity of the car. I offered to pay what I thought it should be, being a daily Niagara to 400/finch commuter, I knew exactly how much it should have been. They took the offer vs calling a cop.
 
Snobike Mike said:
But that's the point. Your tank is probably over 60 L with the reserve which is both more than the 50L you stated your tank was and also more than enough room to put 55L into. Unless you are somehow measuring the unladen volume of your tank before filling you have no way of confirming that the pump is in fact showing a higher quantity than was pumped into your tank.

Cheers.
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I agree.

But explain this. Reserve light comes on. I drive approx another 20 km (reset the odometer when reserve came on). Pump gas. Roughly 50 L.

Same thing happens. I drive less than 20 km on reserve. And pump 55+L at that pump.

And ive only noticed this discreptencie occur at that shell.

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Snobike Mike said:
Without exhaustively researching it, your car appears to have a main fuel tank of 13.7 gallons (which would be 51.78 litres for US gallon and closer to 58 liters for Imp gallons) and may even have a 2 gallon reserve tank which would mean 55 litre fill ups are quite possible.
Click to expand...

sorry but I gotta ask
have you ever went looking for one of those "reserve" tanks?
 
mikbusa said:
It is true that a pump can get out of spec. In the late 80's, I filled at this one gas station I frequented, and they managed to pump in around 15 Litres over capacity of the car. I offered to pay what I thought it should be, being a daily Niagara to 400/finch commuter, I knew exactly how much it should have been. They took the offer vs calling a cop.
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I figured. I just hope we dont get into a debate over pumps now vs in the 80s. Or pumps in toronto vs niagra. :p .

I was just trying to say that for the most part you get acquainted with your car and now how much gas it takes. And know when your intelligence is being insulted by these pump owners. Btw 15L is a huge difference.

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Got this from Tomorrows gas.

FUN WITH NUMBERS (which you pay for) ……
Automatic Temperature Compensation, which is seen by a sticker on all gas pumps as “volume corrected to 15 degrees celcius” is the industry’s way of subtracting the amount of gas you think you’re buying on the theory that gas expands with heat, thus giving you more than you paid for as temps warm up. Only one problem: 15 degrees is the average annual temperature for …. Hawaii.
This Federal Government’s sanctioned practice of “compensating” or subtracting gas you purchase to a standard that exceeds the average annual Canadian temperature of only 7 degrees, leaves you paying for say, 50 litres, but only getting about 49 ! Unlike the scam about faulty gas pumps… the REAL rip off is this hosing which amounts to over $ 300 million a year to Canadian motorists !!!
 
msatrakkoic said:
Thats interesting. Thanks for the explanations...however driving it for 5 years Im pretty aware of my car. The reserve is probably around 5 litres. Pumping at different places gives me different results, but none as bogus as that one. Somewhat of an outlier

Gas stations are franchised and im pretty sure its not unheard of that owners can tweak machines. Just like some stations have been caught adding water to the fuel.

In any case, just like with anything, its objective.

(Btw that was before the pump at st. Clair and birchmount was renovated. Now it seems more realistic)


Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Actually it's hard to tweak a pump to rip of a customer. Our NGV dispensers use a mass flow meter which weighs the gas being dispensed. I had to calibrate 4 this year and to change it guy have to weigh the gas dispensed to a certain amount, do a calculation and determine how far it's out, then change the K factor to Over come the difference. Without weighing it, you wouldn't know how to adjust it. If you go the wrong way, then you lose money. Measurement Canada checks the pumps periodically for calibration, the fine is large if you are caught tampering with it. The only thing the owners can do is adjust the price, nothing more.
 
oilycreek said:
Actually it's hard to tweak a pump to rip of a customer. Our NGV dispensers use a mass flow meter which weighs the gas being dispensed. I had to calibrate 4 this year and to change it guy have to weigh the gas dispensed to a certain amount, do a calculation and determine how far it's out, then change the K factor to Over come the difference. Without weighing it, you wouldn't know how to adjust it. If you go the wrong way, then you lose money. Measurement Canada checks the pumps periodically for calibration, the fine is large if you are caught tampering with it. The only thing the owners can do is adjust the price, nothing more.
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I see. Well mass flow rate is kg/s.. so I assume the machine multiplies it by the time the nozzle is depressed. Which makes sense since the nozzles usually have 3 mass flow rate settings. Now if the pump doesnt automatically decrease the flow rate setting when youre on a lower flow rate ie. Nearing filling it up..then we may be charged an extra lil bit. Interesting stuff.

WRT inspections..im sure theyre about as lousy as inspections for anything else. Especially since the guvvys making money from the fuel tax. Nothing we can really do. I appreciate the clarification.

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msatrakkoic said:
I see. Well mass flow rate is kg/s.. so I assume the machine multiplies it by the time the nozzle is depressed. Which makes sense since the nozzles usually have 3 mass flow rate settings. Now if the pump doesnt automatically decrease the flow rate setting when youre on a lower flow rate ie. Nearing filling it up..then we may be charged an extra lil bit. Interesting stuff.

WRT inspections..im sure theyre about as lousy as inspections for anything else. Especially since the guvvys making money from the fuel tax. Nothing we can really do. I appreciate the clarification.

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Click to expand...
The measurement Canada inspectors are actually really good, that's why I had to calibrate 4 dispensers this year, in fact I had to shut 1 of because we can't get it in to tolerance. Ours have to be within 1 percent. I can't activate that one until I can fix it, which won't be any time soon.
 
msatrakkoic said:
I agree.

But explain this. Reserve light comes on. I drive approx another 20 km (reset the odometer when reserve came on). Pump gas. Roughly 50 L.

Same thing happens. I drive less than 20 km on reserve. And pump 55+L at that pump.

And ive only noticed this discreptencie occur at that shell.

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Click to expand...

I just changed the fuel pump and sending unit inside the gas tank on one of my cars.
I thought it was completely empty because i ran the engine until it ran out of gas.
There was still about 1 inch of fuel on the bottom, and the spot where the fuel pick up is, is a plastic piece about the same height from the bottom of the tank, this keeps the pump from sucking up every little bit of gas or dirt from the bottom.

Now i certainly wouldn't trust my dash gas guage to determine if i had a half a tank or not, it's definitely not that accurate.
When the low fuel light comes on, most cars have approx 10% of their volume in reserve, so dummies like me don't run out. :lol:

I think it's possible that the pump is defective, it has happened to me also, in fact i could hear that the fuel wasn't going down the pipe, yet the meter was running. I stopped at 10$ because i was suspicious, and sure enough, the gas guage hadn't moved at all.
I called the head office to complain, they said they would check that pump, called me back and told me it was running fine, so i know that's balony, i got ripped off for sure. Now i just go to the other station across the road..
 
Gas pumps do go out of calibration, and they can and have dispensed the wrong amount. To think that Friday overnight the minimum wage clerk walks out to pumps and "rigs" them to dispense more gas on saturday is insane.

First of all, more gas gets pumped on the weekday than weekend. It would be more beneficial to rig them to pump less gas per $ on weekdays than weekends.

BTW. Manufacturer stated tank size includes the reserve. Only way reserve matters is when the light goes on. So if a manufacturer states XX liters, thats how big the tank is, not taking into account fuel in the lines, pump etc that can add a bit more volume.

Also, depending on the angle of the car you can pump a lot more/less gas into a tank than normal. I know my civic if its tilted forward can take extra 4 or 5L before the automatic shutoff would engage. Food for thought
 
^^ precisely, it would be hard to tell if you had + or - a couple litres without measuring it into a gas can.
Speaking of the lines, i bet there was at least 2 litres in the system when i drained it.
.
 
Red_Liner740 said:
Gas pumps do go out of calibration, and they can and have dispensed the wrong amount. To think that Friday overnight the minimum wage clerk walks out to pumps and "rigs" them to dispense more gas on saturday is insane.

First of all, more gas gets pumped on the weekday than weekend. It would be more beneficial to rig them to pump less gas per $ on weekdays than weekends.

BTW. Manufacturer stated tank size includes the reserve. Only way reserve matters is when the light goes on. So if a manufacturer states XX liters, thats how big the tank is, not taking into account fuel in the lines, pump etc that can add a bit more volume.

Also, depending on the angle of the car you can pump a lot more/less gas into a tank than normal. I know my civic if its tilted forward can take extra 4 or 5L before the automatic shutoff would engage. Food for thought
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I'm definitely not one of those people that thinks the world is out to get them... I was just stating an observation I saw at one gas pump I frequented. And I was going by my trip odometer, along with the meter on the pump itself...not my gauge. (except for the light coming on..which again I know when will happen because of my odometer).

Also, I'm not sure how much the car would have to be tilted for it to make a big impact.

Either way, can't complain too much...except for the over-inflated prices :p
 
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