Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle? | Page 73 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

Interesting, but maybe too late to the game in North America...when they finally get here, as the article mentions they are focusing on mostly overseas.

The private charging network is expanding fast, so they risk missing the boat if they don't get their act together here soon. Also curious what they will charge vs the private market - if they're not competitive with other options in other locations, people simply won't use them.

But it is interesting to see an oil company waking up to reality, regardless...and the more chargers, the better.

Here's a different source for the story thats not behind a paywall.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/shell-buys-newmotion-takes-big-step-toward-electrified-future/
 
Interesting timing as I literally yesterday had a similar thought pop into my head when thinking about how EV's can be "fuelled" as easily and quickly as gas cars. It occurred to me to put fast chargers in at the gas stations as gas pumps are being taken away as the shift happens from gas to battery.

There is of course more to it as standards & technology are still evolving but I can see a day when the gas companies will need to adapt and you'll see both gas and battery vehicles side-by-side getting re-fuelled.
 
LBV said:
Interesting timing as I literally yesterday had a similar thought pop into my head when thinking about how EV's can be "fuelled" as easily and quickly as gas cars. It occurred to me to put fast chargers in at the gas stations as gas pumps are being taken away as the shift happens from gas to battery.

There is of course more to it as standards & technology are still evolving but I can see a day when the gas companies will need to adapt and you'll see both gas and battery vehicles side-by-side getting re-fuelled.
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In under 10 minutes I can fill up the ICE and be good for another 400 Kms. What are the best recharge times on the present EVs?
 
nobbie48 said:
In under 10 minutes I can fill up the ICE and be good for another 400 Kms. What are the best recharge times on the present EVs?
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It's all over the place with Tesla's Supercharger likely being the best right now and I honestly couldn't tell you off hand how fast they charge - it still will not get you 400 km's in 10 minutes for sure.

Whatever it is though, it'll get faster in the future until I can see the re-charge time being comparable to an ICE fill-up at the gas pump.
 
In EV fast charging world it is about how fast you can fill up to 80% ... after that, everyone's charge tapers and it takes significantly longer to reach actually 100% (wisely people nly charge up to 100% if they are on a trip and really need every km of a range) ... plus, down to 20% up to 80% is considered the healthiest Li-Ion standard insuring long a and healthy life for your battery. Also the bigger battery the higher charge it will take faster (thus Tesla fills up bigger battery in the same time) ... so it's not just the Tesla Supercharger, but it's also the large Tesla batteries letting them do what they do ... The norm these days is 80% in 40mins if your car can take it.

The times will get better, but not in a huge way (like 80% will be done in maybe 20mins but even that seems to have limits due to current batteries not going bigger than 100kWh). Next huge improvement will require a different chemistry, it seems.
 
mxs said:
The times will get better, but not in a huge way (like 80% will be done in maybe 20mins but even that seems to have limits due to current batteries not going bigger than 100kWh). Next huge improvement will require a different chemistry, it seems.
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I'm surprised that something like a super-cap hasn't made it into electric cars yet. Something to absorb and deliver large spikes with less conversion and storage losses than a chemical battery. I'm not sure what capacity is available in reasonable size and price. I was hoping it could help with a splash and dash, but thinking about it more this is unlikely to help much with charging (eg. I doubt they could install one that would provide 10km range), but it should easily help get more km/kwh.
 
There's been a number of up-starts which had capacitors in their sights (partly as battery replacements), but for now that's how far caps have made it ... lab toys only.
 
Quick question for you who have already installed L2 220V charger in your garage .... I was poking around the different chargers today and I noticed that none(I could find) require neutral wire, so essentially something like 8/2 wire cable should be fine, however I believe all new installs these should be done with 8/3 regardless whether the appliance needs neutral or not, correct? (I don't see 8/2 much for sale in Canada anyway???) I need only 15', but why to waste money on something I will never use, plus 8/2 is more pliable I am sure. Am I right thinking that the only time I could get screwed is if I want to plug in 220V 4 wire appliance (running some circuits requiring 110V only) in my garage, correct?

BTW, where do you guys shop for best prices? ... 15' of 8/2 cable (or 8/3), 40A breaker and 14-50 outlet ... not that it's large order or anything ... :) ... just wondering.
 
mxs said:
In EV fast charging world it is about how fast you can fill up to 80% ... after that, everyone's charge tapers and it takes significantly longer to reach actually 100% (wisely people nly charge up to 100% if they are on a trip and really need every km of a range) ... plus, down to 20% up to 80% is considered the healthiest Li-Ion standard insuring long a and healthy life for your battery. Also the bigger battery the higher charge it will take faster (thus Tesla fills up bigger battery in the same time) ... so it's not just the Tesla Supercharger, but it's also the large Tesla batteries letting them do what they do ... The norm these days is 80% in 40mins if your car can take it.

The times will get better, but not in a huge way (like 80% will be done in maybe 20mins but even that seems to have limits due to current batteries not going bigger than 100kWh). Next huge improvement will require a different chemistry, it seems.
Click to expand...

I timed myself filling up the Elantra and it took 2 1/2 minutes from shut off to restart. I'm good for 450 KM and it works out to .333 seconds fill time per KM traveled.

Using the Bolt's 150 KM (90 M) in 30 minutes ratio the "Pump" time is 1800 seconds for 150 KM or 12 seconds refuel time per KM driven. "The pumping" time is 36 times longer with electric or worse.

The 90 in 30 rate is the optimal and the charge rate declines as the charge level goes up. The diminishing return brings up a complex calculation of how often does one top up. While it's nice to have the full range available it may only be possible with all day or overnight charging.

For an all gas station to convert to all electric they would theoretically need about 36 times the number of outlets. However this is an exaggeration as I can't fill up my Elantra at home while an EV owner can, bypassing the service centres to some degree.

Right now (With the exception of people in high rise buildings) one ICE and one EV would or could be made to work for most 2 car households. It will require thinking and communicating.
 
I couldn't find the extension cable I needed in Canada (not easily anyway) so it ended coming from the US. I think it was via Amazon.
 
nobbie48 said:
The 90 in 30 rate is the optimal and the charge rate declines as the charge level goes up. The diminishing return brings up a complex calculation of how often does one top up. While it's nice to have the full range available it may only be possible with all day or overnight charging.
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People who want to learn will learn to put 100% charge only when they know they need it, the people who don't want to get used to it, they will keep driving ICE as long as they can, or as long as it will not matter anymore (new battery chemistry). Of course the car must have a decent range to start with, otherwise convincing someone to put only 80% in would be hard and useless.

nobbie48 said:
For an all gas station to convert to all electric they would theoretically need about 36 times the number of outlets. However this is an exaggeration as I can't fill up my Elantra at home while an EV owner can, bypassing the service centres to some degree.
Click to expand...

The change is gradual and with many new players coming in. For very long time, both will co-exist, but more often than not, they will be separate facilities, with separate owners (some new, some old ... Shell will surely want to stick around :))

nobbie48 said:
Right now (With the exception of people in high rise buildings) one ICE and one EV would or could be made to work for most 2 car households. It will require thinking and communicating.
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Honestly, I don't have EV yet, but I don't see much thinking or communicating required ... one is EV and will be plugged-in every night for overnight fill-up to whatever % we see deemed necessary), second is ICE and it will be filled up with gas when necessary. EV will never leave GTA and will be the go-to vehicle for GTA. Pretty simple in my view really ...
 
Polestar is the performance division of Volvo (like AMG to Mercedes Benz and M to BMW). They've been around a while with low-volume Volvo Polestar versions out for years now. Think of it as Volvo, not Polestar. Polestar is just the brand under Volvo.
 
The brands kind of parted way, so it's not really sub-Volvo brand anymore ... http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/...s-the-end-of-its-time-as-volvo-sub-brand.html

I don't think the particular Polestar car matters much with anticipated production of 500 units ... it might matter once they start scaling that drivetrain and put in lower end Volvos. Almost sounds like a testbed for things to come ... not a Tesla killer (which is a line the stupid media like to use all the time ....) ... LOL
 
mxs said:
The brands kind of parted way, so it's not really sub-Volvo brand anymore ... http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/...s-the-end-of-its-time-as-volvo-sub-brand.html

I don't think the particular Polestar car matters much with anticipated production of 500 units ... it might matter once they start scaling that drivetrain and put in lower end Volvos. Almost sounds like a testbed for things to come ... not a Tesla killer (which is a line the stupid media like to use all the time ....) ... LOL
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Polestar 1 is definitely a testbed, not just for the vehicle designs and tech, but for the subscription model. I think that is really what they are looking at.
 
mxs said:
Quick question for you who have already installed L2 220V charger in your garage .... I was poking around the different chargers today and I noticed that none(I could find) require neutral wire, so essentially something like 8/2 wire cable should be fine, however I believe all new installs these should be done with 8/3 regardless whether the appliance needs neutral or not, correct? (I don't see 8/2 much for sale in Canada anyway???) I need only 15', but why to waste money on something I will never use, plus 8/2 is more pliable I am sure. Am I right thinking that the only time I could get screwed is if I want to plug in 220V 4 wire appliance (running some circuits requiring 110V only) in my garage, correct?

BTW, where do you guys shop for best prices? ... 15' of 8/2 cable (or 8/3), 40A breaker and 14-50 outlet ... not that it's large order or anything ... :) ... just wondering.
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The gauge of wire is highly dependent on the capabilities of the level 2 charging station – I didn't need 8/2 because my EVSE draws only a max of 16a at 240v.

Yes, I'm not future proofed because I used smaller wiring, but I also installed my own 240v circuit to my EVSEE for less than $100. It works for the time being.

As for a neutral wire, a true 240v circuit doesn't need them. The only reason they are common on appliance plugs is that typically there is a portion of the appliance that operates on 120 V – lightbulbs, control panels, etc. – they draw 120 off of one leg of the 240 V circuit but require a neutral to accomplish that. Most EVSE's don't need it so you only need 2 conductor wire for 2 hot circuits, and that's it.
 
Thanks for your input ... turns out that to buy 8/2 is actually not as simple as I thought it would be. I just bought 8/3. Most spread EVSE L2 for pure EV's (which is what I will be buying when the time is right) I think most of them go anywhere from 30-40A ... which is what really is needed as minimum for 40kWh+ battery packs. Otherwise, it just takes too long, me thinks.
 
Using 8/3 as opposed to 8/2 (or 10-12/2) is certainly forward thinking.

In my case because of the distance between the fuse panel and where the charger is located it would've cost me three arms and two legs for 8/2, so I decided to put that off until a later date, if needed. ;)

Even if we do end up with a Bolt in a few years however, I think 16A charging will still get the job done for our typical usage patterns though, especially considering it would seldom be depleted to empty to begin with.
 
mxs said:
Thanks for your input ... turns out that to buy 8/2 is actually not as simple as I thought it would be. I just bought 8/3. Most spread EVSE L2 for pure EV's (which is what I will be buying when the time is right) I think most of them go anywhere from 30-40A ... which is what really is needed as minimum for 40kWh+ battery packs. Otherwise, it just takes too long, me thinks.
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Since you have 8/3, it would be interesting to see if code allows a 120V split plug (or quad box) to be installed on the same circuit. When the EV isn't charging, you would have tons of power in the garage (assuming you don't already have a decent power drop out there). On second thought, code probably prohibits this as the 12/14 ga running to the 120 split plugs won't be properly protected.
 
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