Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

[Brian P]

In fairness, the Tesla Semi is more suited to short-haul runs than cross-continent long-hauls.

Plenty of tractor-trailers do distribution-center duty: go to (let's say) a Walmart distribution center, load up with whatever store X needs, drive across town to store X, unload, then back to the DC to load up with whatever store Y needs, and so forth. I gather that this is what Pepsico (first customer) is going to be doing with theirs. Those trucks can recharge at the DC while they are being loaded up, so they need the range to get from the DC to the furthest store that this DC serves, and back.

Tractor-trailer driving distance is also legally limited by how much time the drivers are allowed to drive in one shift. Unless the truck has a sleeper cab ... it's going back to a home-base somewhere after that shift.

From the petroleum-consumption point of view, long-haul trucking is a nut that has yet to be cracked, but that's not an excuse to not solve the part of the problem that we DO know how to solve.

 

[GreyGhost]

Tractor-trailer driving distance is also legally limited by how much time the drivers are allowed to drive in one shift. Unless the truck has a sleeper cab ... it's going back to a home-base somewhere after that shift.

I'm waiting for the ICBM version of auto-pilot where musk argues that the truck can drive to get around hours of service regulations. To be fair, it could be one of the better uses of autopilot as it is a reasonably defined and repetitive route along truck routes between industrial zones. After watching many truck drivers back up, that operation is low-hanging fruit for autopilot as most are bleeping horrendous (a few stars but sadly they are the exception).

 

[Brian P]

Also ... Let's suppose the Tesla Semi does indeed do what it claims it can do. If it is indeed less expensive to keep running, fleet managers will take notice. There is plenty of stuff online "diesel forever", "my diesel will go 700 miles then fill up in 5 minutes", etc but hard-nosed fleet managers who look at dollars and cents aren't going to give a hoot about that. If fleet managers take notice ... these will show up on the roads (along with competitors). If it really does drive more nicely than its combustion-engine competitors (and I have little doubt that it would), other drivers will get exposed to that. They'll start coming over ...

... IF ... the Tesla Semi really does do what it says it does, and the bumpers don't fall off. LOL

 

[GreyGhost]

Also ... Let's suppose the Tesla Semi does indeed do what it claims it can do. If it is indeed less expensive to keep running, fleet managers will take notice. There is plenty of stuff online "diesel forever", "my diesel will go 700 miles then fill up in 5 minutes", etc but hard-nosed fleet managers who look at dollars and cents aren't going to give a hoot about that. If fleet managers take notice ... these will show up on the roads (along with competitors). If it really does drive more nicely than its combustion-engine competitors (and I have little doubt that it would), other drivers will get exposed to that. They'll start coming over ...

... IF ... the Tesla Semi really does do what it says it does, and the bumpers don't fall off. LOL

The diesel forever crowd will be surprised at the torque off the line compared to their beloved smoky beast. Also, it's getting harder and harder to keep the old stuff on the road in the US and not many drivers love the newer vehicles loaded down with emissions controls. They are appliances without much character.

 

[MacDoc]

Kinda nice - would have been better with larger wheels to bring the seat height up a bit and look more like small SUV - lot of features I like. Would not work for us in Australia but I like it.

Marques Brownlee Takes A Closer Look At The 2023 Chevy Bolt EUV | Digg

Chevy's new 2023 Bolt costs around $32,000 and is billed as an EUV, or electric utility vehicle.

digg.com

 

[SunnY S]

Hey, all good points above, but you have to start somewhere right?

Look how long tesla cars have been around before everyone else caught on. As usual Tesla is way ahead of the game with semi while others scoff.

As for long distance trucking. Hydrogen will solve that.

Diesel is doomed...

 

[SunnY S]

Kinda nice - would have been better with larger wheels to bring the seat height up a bit and look more like small SUV - lot of features I like. Would not work for us in Australia but I like it.

Marques Brownlee Takes A Closer Look At The 2023 Chevy Bolt EUV | Digg

Chevy's new 2023 Bolt costs around $32,000 and is billed as an EUV, or electric utility vehicle.

digg.com

I'd be super hesitant to buy one of these with last Gen tech that GM has abandoned long ago.

It's simply on life support until Ultium takes over in the new Equinox soon

 

[mimico_polak]

Interesting....Switzerland proposing to ban / limit use of EVs in times of energy crisis where the grid won't be able to sustain it.

Switzerland Considers Electric Vehicle Ban To Avoid Blackouts | OilPrice.com

Switzerland is considering limiting the use of electric vehicles this winter in order to ensure energy security this winter

oilprice.com

Guess this is similar to limiting the amount of gas one can buy during shortages?

 

[GreyGhost]

Interesting....Switzerland proposing to ban / limit use of EVs in times of energy crisis where the grid won't be able to sustain it.

Switzerland Considers Electric Vehicle Ban To Avoid Blackouts | OilPrice.com

Switzerland is considering limiting the use of electric vehicles this winter in order to ensure energy security this winter

oilprice.com

Guess this is similar to limiting the amount of gas one can buy during shortages?

I wouldn't be too concerned. It's in stage three out of four to avoid blackouts. Charging is almost impossible to regulate. My dryer and EV look exactly the same to the grid if they are just watching KW consumed. With more detailed data, you can figure out which it was (looking at profile and/or associated interference like a motor or switching noise) but afaik, no meter can see this, they would have to be manually probing connections.

As for limiting driving EV's, that is stupid. First of all, if their “absolutely necessary journeys” are similar to ontarios necessary journeys during covid, that is almost anything. Secondly, if I had a 400 km range and the power crunch was supposed to be resolved in under a week, there would be no grid impact as I could choose not to charge.

 

[killvino]

Interesting....Switzerland proposing to ban / limit use of EVs in times of energy crisis where the grid won't be able to sustain it.

Switzerland Considers Electric Vehicle Ban To Avoid Blackouts | OilPrice.com

Switzerland is considering limiting the use of electric vehicles this winter in order to ensure energy security this winter

oilprice.com

Guess this is similar to limiting the amount of gas one can buy during shortages?

please check your sources, oilprice.com's bias is right in the title. and another clickbait title.
they are picking a tiny line item from a larger proposed draft plan for emergency situations under extreme energy shortages.
same thing would happen if you started planning for an oil shortage and possibly limiting passenger ICE and gasoline.
once again, we are nowhere near the capacity of EVs to pose a problem to the grid and almost everyone charges at low peak where demand is not an issue.

 

[mimico_polak]

please check your sources, oilprice.com's bias is right in the title. and another clickbait title.
they are picking a tiny line item from a larger proposed draft plan for emergency situations under extreme energy shortages.
same thing would happen if you started planning for an oil shortage and possibly limiting passenger ICE and gasoline.
once again, we are nowhere near the capacity of EVs to pose a problem to the grid and almost everyone charges at low peak where demand is not an issue.

Oh I agree 100%. I should’ve made it clearer.

But it would be on par of an oil embargo but much harder to control who chargers where and how.

 

[Brian P]

The usual right-wing and luddite and anti-EV sources are all over that Switzerland article. As usual, there is a shred of truth buried in the depths, but it's being taken out of context.

Switzerland - and plenty of the rest of Europe - is in a temporary tough spot due to relying on natural gas that was sourced in Russia. Due to current geopolitical difficulties, natural gas sourced in Russia is a wee bit of a problem. To make matters worse, Switzerland (among other countries) did a populist knee-jerk reaction to the nuclear reactor situation in Japan some years ago, and have opted to phase out nuclear power. If you're not generating nuclear power, and you can't get natural gas, and you haven't yet built out enough solar and wind and pumped-storage to rely solely on that, then where is the electricity (and home heating) going to come from?

The only way they can address it right now is through extreme conservation, and given that Europe has been relying a lot on both natural gas and petroleum sourced in Russia (all of which is a problem right now), they really ought to be getting the fossil fuel vehicles off the road as well. And turning off lights, and turning the thermostats down and layering-up clothing inside, because home heating is another natural-gas consumer.

The long term solution is ... GET OFF FOSSIL FUEL. Stop using the stuff except where absolutely necessary and no alternative has been developed. Even for those who are disbelievers in global warming, this situation is a reminder that we (collectively) need to stop using fossil fuel to the extent that we are relying on paying unsavoury countries for the stuff.

 

[Evoex]

 

[Brian P]

Yup. BV1HX has been keeping us hopping for the last little while.

 

[Mad Mike]

I have seen nothing anywhere that stated the circumstances of that 500 mile drive. Steady 30 mph on flat ground? Downhill with following wind?

Back of notepad calcs with realistic but mildly generous estimates of drag coefficient and rolling resistance indicate that doing 500 miles at steady 60 mph level ground would need a ballpark 1 MWh battery. (10 Model S packs). That battery would weigh 12,000 lbs. It's not completely out of the realm of possibility but that is one awfully big battery.

The engine, tranny, batteries and full fuel system on a highway tractor weighs 8500lbs. A 12000lb batterycshould be no problem.

Based on their claim of 2kwh/mile, they are using a 1000kwh battery. Here 1000kwh should cost $150 vs 300l of diesel $600.

If it comes with an 8' box, I'd consider one over a Lightning.

 

[Mad Mike]

In fairness, the Tesla Semi is more suited to short-haul runs than cross-continent long-hauls.

Plenty of tractor-trailers do distribution-center duty: go to (let's say) a Walmart distribution center, load up with whatever store X needs, drive across town to store X, unload, then back to the DC to load up with whatever store Y needs, and so forth. I gather that this is what Pepsico (first customer) is going to be doing with theirs. Those trucks can recharge at the DC while they are being loaded up, so they need the range to get from the DC to the furthest store that this DC serves, and back.

Tractor-trailer driving distance is also legally limited by how much time the drivers are allowed to drive in one shift. Unless the truck has a sleeper cab ... it's going back to a home-base somewhere after that shift.

From the petroleum-consumption point of view, long-haul trucking is a nut that has yet to be cracked, but that's not an excuse to not solve the part of the problem that we DO know how to solve.

500 miles is 8 hours of driving without a stop. 30 minute fast charge seems like pee/lnch break timing.

These trucks probably have auto pilot, so truckers might be able to drive 24 hrs if they can catch a few zzz's on the interstate.

 

[Mad Mike]

The usual right-wing and luddite and anti-EV sources are all over that Switzerland article. As usual, there is a shred of truth buried in the depths, but it's being taken out of context.

Switzerland - and plenty of the rest of Europe - is in a temporary tough spot due to relying on natural gas that was sourced in Russia. Due to current geopolitical difficulties, natural gas sourced in Russia is a wee bit of a problem. To make matters worse, Switzerland (among other countries) did a populist knee-jerk reaction to the nuclear reactor situation in Japan some years ago, and have opted to phase out nuclear power. If you're not generating nuclear power, and you can't get natural gas, and you haven't yet built out enough solar and wind and pumped-storage to rely solely on that, then where is the electricity (and home heating) going to come from?

The only way they can address it right now is through extreme conservation, and given that Europe has been relying a lot on both natural gas and petroleum sourced in Russia (all of which is a problem right now), they really ought to be getting the fossil fuel vehicles off the road as well. And turning off lights, and turning the thermostats down and layering-up clothing inside, because home heating is another natural-gas consumer.

The long term solution is ... GET OFF FOSSIL FUEL. Stop using the stuff except where absolutely necessary and no alternative has been developed. Even for those who are disbelievers in global warming, this situation is a reminder that we (collectively) need to stop using fossil fuel to the extent that we are relying on paying unsavoury countries for the stuff.

The Swiss are smart. They have a mountain of energy storage and production capability.

Chocolate.

 

[mimico_polak]

500 miles is 8 hours of driving without a stop. 30 minute fast charge seems like pee/lnch break timing.

These trucks probably have auto pilot, so truckers might be able to drive 24 hrs if they can catch a few zzz's on the interstate.

Long haul boring highway / interstate is where autopilot or whatever they call it is best suited for. Not much traffic…follow the lines and don’t hit anything.

If a driver has a sleeper cab I don’t expect them to be allowed to extend their shift simply due to ‘how do we know you weren’t behind the wheel’. That would come once it’s a fully autonomous truck.

Then it’s easy.

 

[Brian P]

Crossed 10,000 km on the Bolt today. I have not used a DC fast-charger yet!

 

[PrivatePilot]

Also ... Let's suppose the Tesla Semi does indeed do what it claims it can do. If it is indeed less expensive to keep running, fleet managers will take notice. There is plenty of stuff online "diesel forever", "my diesel will go 700 miles then fill up in 5 minutes", etc but hard-nosed fleet managers who look at dollars and cents aren't going to give a hoot about that.

There's a certain segment of the trucking industry that will die sucking diesel smoke...because they are not willing to embrace change.
Personally, if they gave me an electric tractor tomorrow I'd do summersaults in excitement....I wouldn't miss the smell, vibration, long heatup times, volume level...shifting 13 gears all day long, or anything else of the engine anymore.

The only issue I see with large fleet takeup of electric trucks in electrical infrastructure. Our yard for example, one of the medium sized yards in the fleet has about 15 tractors based there. A certain segment of them run 400-1000km/night (can vary wildly), and all of our city tractors can travel as little as 20-30km total in a day to 150-350km depending on the run. Some tractors overlap, so they run city in the day and highway at night.

In short, there would need to be infrastructure at our yard to potentially charge at least 6-10 tractors all at the same time, some of them very rapidly to make the city/highway turnover. Realistically, since there are times when there's only a skeleton crew on at night, *all* of them would need to be plugged in and charging at once as there's nobody to "rotate" tractors through the night on and off chargers.
So, conservatively, 10 tractors fast charging at megawatt speeds would probably require a new substation of some sort be installed at our yard.
Our Toronto terminal has about 100 tractors, so the logistics are even more complicated.

As for long haul, for a solo driver, 1000km range is just fine so long as there's infrastructure to fast charge along the route....which again, is going to be a challenge in the beginning.

There are nuts to be cracked yet, that's for sure.