As far as Pure EVs are concerned including the Bolt, This whole thread can be perfectly summed up by just this one post.
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Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?
- Thread starter PrivatePilot
- Start date
As far as Pure EVs are concerned including the Bolt, This whole thread can be perfectly summed up by just this one post.
I think things got confused when you mentioned the 120V charge time as a yardstick, when there are probably very few households that could benefit from an EV relying solely on 120V. In fact, the benefit of an 200km range EV isn't quite there for you at any charging rate.
200KM, as Volkswagen is offering, is indeed an awkward range. It could constitute a full day of weekend local running about for us, but not enough to make it across to Pearson and back, to use an example based on our location.
If it had a range extender, well...boom - whole different ball game.
The Bolt at ~380KM range makes a lot more sense in the pure EV market.
Look at people who bought the original Leaf and suffered with its anemic ~100KM range - that was the textbook case of a car the fostered range anxiety and did a huge disservice to the image of EV's. But again, if it had a REX, well...it would have been a crappy looking Gen2 Volt at that point.
I think the magic number is in the 400KM range for pure EV's - with fast chargers being able to get you a full recharge in the time it takes to have a meal, the issues start to disappear.
If it had a range extender, well...boom - whole different ball game.
The Bolt at ~380KM range makes a lot more sense in the pure EV market.
Look at people who bought the original Leaf and suffered with its anemic ~100KM range - that was the textbook case of a car the fostered range anxiety and did a huge disservice to the image of EV's. But again, if it had a REX, well...it would have been a crappy looking Gen2 Volt at that point.
I think the magic number is in the 400KM range for pure EV's - with fast chargers being able to get you a full recharge in the time it takes to have a meal, the issues start to disappear.
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yessss, its called a Hybrid. which makes the most sense for MOST people as the market is dictating.
Here we go again.
Those 200 Kilometers cost about 25 cents in electricity.
If one needs to use a Volt like a hybrid, which most people are. then why not just buy a proper hybrid and reap the benefits of a "normal" car with still amazing fuel savings. up to 50mpg for most hybrids is pretty good.
No need to plug it in every night. No need to worry about not using the heater and/or flooring the accelerator to "save range", no need to beg work and every coffee shop, and Mall for a charge station. No need to buy and install extra wiring and fancy chargers in your house.
Just get a hybrid and be done with it. Makes so much sense which was my argument from Post #2
(of course there is a small minority who can use the limited range of an electric and make it work. Good for them, but for the rest of us...... Hybrids make more sense for now)
slowbird
Well-known member
Yeah I am. It's not tooo bad. On nightshift however I get home at 7am with a depleted battery (since work won't let me charge yet while my car sits outside for my entire 14hour nightshift) I plug in and go to sleep and when I leave at 3pm for work the battery isn't 100% charged but I still have over 50kms of EV range.
I was at an Ikea and a guy in a Tesla S and I were trying to figure out the charging stations. When he figured his out I realized I had to use the Level 2 chargers in the other spots and he says "Oh you can't use the fast chargers?" I'm thinking...well these are fast for me and my Volt. Maybe not for your Tesla. :razz:
He seemed a bit worried when he couldn't figure out the charger at first while I was just like "meh. I have gas if these don't work."
Mind you his Tesla was gorgeous :agave:
Twinsies!
Ah yes, "Poor mans 240v".
Yes, you can make a Y cable, plug it into 2 different 120V receptacles making sure you're only drawing from the hot side and leaving the neutral unused, and end up with a 15A 240V circuit.
But, a 15A 240V circuit isn't much use in EV land - the Volt, when it's detected 240V, will charge at 15A....so, you'd likely either be popping the breakers constantly, or overheating the wiring, since a "constant load" draw (one that draws for over 2 hours) should not be drawing over 80% of a breakers rated load.
In other words, it's all sorts of dangerous and it won't work for an EV anyway. I do know people who have done exactly this for a low amp draw 240v circuit (testing a pool pump or something for example), but for high amp draw loads, it's not practical nor safe.
Ultimately, the thing to remember, is that the EVSE (the charger box and cord) are basically just a glorified extension cord with a lot of safety features built in - the actual charger is in the car itself. The charger in the car is what decides the amperage it wants to draw based on what the charger offers up during the handshake phase....so event though some level 2 chargers may offer 6.6KW the Volt will only ask for (and subsequently charge) at 3.3KW. A level 1 (120v) charger won't try to draw more than what it knows it can get from a standard 120v receptacle (12A) no matter how many amps you provide it.
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I realise your question is rhetorical as you think you already have all the answers, but people use the Volt like a hybrid because... it's a hybrid. They prefer it over an old fashioned parallel hybrid because it offers all those benefits that you describe as problems. Up to infinite MPG for a series hybrid is a bit more than "pretty good".
The "pretty good" option forces you to make special trips and waste time refueling, it removes the option to extend your range if you don't mind laying off the HVAC, doesn't allow you refuel wherever there's an electrical outlet, doesn't give you the option to refuel while you sleep.
An old fashioned hybrid makes no sense, just like your argument from post #2.
I understand you're not a fan of giving people choices like a series hybrid does, but that's not a problem of ours, it's a problem of yours.
Ah yes, "Poor mans 240v".
Yes, you can make a Y cable, plug it into 2 different 120V receptacles making sure you're only drawing from the hot side and leaving the neutral unused, and end up with a 15A 240V circuit.
Just to add, you need to make sure you are on the two different phases. If they are both on the same phase, I'm not sure what what happens. Just one more reason why this game is more trouble than it's worth.
Now if you are feeling lucky, my kitchen and many others of the same vintage run 220V to the kitchen receptables. That is the easiest place to make a 15A 220V plug far from the panel. Still not worth it in this scenario.
Are you switching to 12 amps on the Volt screen or leaving the 8 amp default?
Not sure phases matter a lot, actually - the only reason on hot leg in a 240v circuit is on one phase, and the other leg is typically on a different phase is load sharing - most 220v loads are amp heavy (think dryer, 20-30A per hot leg) so putting both on the same phase could theoretically, along with other loads in the house sharing that same phase, overload only that one side of the phase, while leaving the other under, or basically almost unutilized.
In the end however, a 240V circuit is made up with 2 120V hot legs - phase probably doesn't matter much in the end.
240V is typically run to your kitchen only for the stove plug. Second most common place to find a 240v circuit is the dryer plug.
Both are fairly common places for people to tap into for running a 240v circuit out to their garage for EV charging, if running a completely new wire right back to the panel isn't possible for example. A lot of people with gas dryers have an unused 240v 40A plug sitting unused from when the house was built, so this is an ideal setup to repurpose.
His timeline of charging is about 8 hours in his example, which at level 1, indeed probably wouldn't equal quite a full charge, but probably >90-95% I would expect.
I don't want this thread to go too far off track, but if you grab two 120 legs on the same phase, a resistive load would see 0 volts (as both legs would rise and fall together). I don't know how the charger deals with this. My suspicion is they are smart enough to display a fault and not attempt to charge.
The old way to wire kitchens was split plugs where 240 (on a 15A breaker)was run to each outlet and the upper and lower plugs were on separate 120V phases. This let you plug in a toaster and kettle into the same outlet without blowing the breaker. The new way is 120v 20 amp breaker for kitchen outlets. It saves a bit of copper.
slowbird
Well-known member
Yeah I'm switching to 12A. Yesterday I got back from nightshift kinda of late so I only had 7 hours of charging at 120V 12A. But when I woke up I had over 50kms on the EV range guessometer which is more than enough to get me to work and back so I'm golden.
I met up with a dude in the A.M. after work to buy some wheels off him. He had a Volt too and had lightweight OZ's on them until he got a Gen 2 Volt and the Bolt pattern changed. He was saying he would regularly get over 80kms on EV. That's quite awesome.
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