Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle? | Page 155 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

Brian P said:
Know how you sell electric cars? You make electric cars that people will want. /
Click to expand...

100 percent. Add in a 400km range and an ability to get a reasonable charge in 10 minutes or so and now you have something. Still 10 years away minimum till electric is mainstream though in my opinion.

Tough to gauge what consumers really want though. A lot of the offerings would be nothing more then an economy car if they had an ICE engine which isn't for everybody so they didn't really take off and on the other end of the scale the Tesla's have been too much money until the 3 came out.
 
blackcamaro said:
100 percent. Add in a 400km range and an ability to get a reasonable charge in 10 minutes or so and now you have something. Still 10 years away minimum till electric is mainstream though in my opinion.

Tough to gauge what consumers really want though. A lot of the offerings would be nothing more then an economy car if they had an ICE engine which isn't for everybody so they didn't really take off and on the other end of the scale the Tesla's have been too much money until the 3 came out.
Click to expand...

For me it's 300 kms and $30k pricetag. Give me both and you have my money. Do the same for an SUV at $40k and you have a winner. Keep in mind you don't need this to be your primary vehicle. They can sell tons for a second car. The leaf is real close. Next gen will be there.
 
So many people overestimate the range that they think they need. All the old “I’ll buy an EV when it can go 1000KM on a charge” arguments are patently ridiculous from most.

Kia seems to be the only EV maker so far that gets that with the 185KM rated Soul EV that not surprisingly sells for less va it’s higher-mileage comparisons - my sister and BIl own one now. A happy medium needs to be found on price vs range, but until people realize that 200KM is more than enough for 99.5% of their yearly travel (with fast charging being a solution for the trips outside that) people will still find EV’s expensive because manufacturers are on a quest to satisfy consumers by offering massive ranges....that considers don’t really need.

It’s a vicious circle right now.

Most people don’t need 400, 500, 600KM batteries that are never going to be utilized (but perhaps once a year), while being forced to pay tens of thousands of dollars extra for the privledge of hauling it around for nothing. Rent a gasser for that once a year (or for many, every several years) where that sort of range presents a legit barrier for smoother trip.
 
800over said:
For me it's 300 kms and $30k pricetag. Give me both and you have my money. Do the same for an SUV at $40k and you have a winner.
Click to expand...

That I see as a reasonable expectation. For the SUV you mention I still see a need for a 400km range just being a more family style vehicle could see a lot more trips to ski hills, cottages, day trips to tourist attractions like Niagara falls/Canadians wonderland etc. Once people can use EV's almost the exact same as their traditional vehicle they will take off which is why I mention those ranges and 10-15 minutes providing a solid charge. Keep the premium to around $5000 above the gas powered comparables as well. Much more then that and people will stick with what they know.

But yes I agree for your average commuter car 300km/$30,000 is probably the sweet spot to really see them sell.

I'm curious how the charging is all going to work out. Tesla has it's superchargers and Porsche is working on a fast charger for the Porsche/Audi product. I don't understand why the manufacturers don't get together and solve this with a common charger and then one big hurdle is out of the way. I guess whoever ends up with the best system will probably corner the charging market and then license competitors to use it. That makes the most sense to me if they won't work together. In the long run everyone having their own specific charger isn't going to work out.
 
There ARE charging standards - J1772 for level 1 and 2, and CCS for level 3.

It’s the manufacturers like Tesla and others who go proprietary that’s the problem. Tesla’s supercharging network is awesome, but it doesn’t do jack **** to spread the adoption of EV’s for those who choose a non-Tesla model.
 
PrivatePilot said:
There ARE charging standards - J1772 for level 1 and 2, and CCS for level 3.
Click to expand...

Is level 3 also what is considered DC fast charging stations? If so it looks like it takes 30 minutes for about 90-100 mile charge from what I can see online for a Chevrolet Bolt, a complete charge seems to be an hour. This is too long. I'm talking about the 15 minutes for 80% of range charge Porsche is working on. That's a short enough amount of time people will go for it.
 
blackcamaro said:
Is level 3 also what is considered DC fast charging stations? If so it looks like it takes 30 minutes for about 90-100 mile charge from what I can see online for a Chevrolet Bolt, a complete charge seems to be an hour. This is too long. I'm talking about the 15 minutes for 80% of range charge Porsche is working on. That's a short enough amount of time people will go for it.
Click to expand...

Not an issue if coming off the freeway to a charger, but after watching some tesla owner videos in cold climates, that sometimes becomes an issue.
For the battery to be ready to get the full beans, amperage wise, they need to be at operational temperature.
Park a tesla overnight in -20*c, it'll take x-minutes before it can charge anywhere close to "full supercharging speeds". Otherwise, it will "trickle charge" while warming it up.

In fact, it's often better to go for an x-minute roller coaster ride of WOT > regen to slow > WOT > regen to slow to warm up the battery, and then plug in for significantly higher charge rates.
 
blackcamaro said:
Is level 3 also what is considered DC fast charging stations? If so it looks like it takes 30 minutes for about 90-100 mile charge from what I can see online for a Chevrolet Bolt, a complete charge seems to be an hour. This is too long. I'm talking about the 15 minutes for 80% of range charge Porsche is working on. That's a short enough amount of time people will go for it.
Click to expand...

DCFC/L3 is capable of far higher amp rates than what many manufactures are actually utilizing. Remember, the charger is actually in the car, the base station just supplies the amps and volts. It’s what the car is capable of accepting that ultimately presents the final limits.

Future GM (and other manufacturers) will without doubt support the higher amp rate charging.
 
MSRP said:
In fact, it's often better to go for an x-minute roller coaster ride of WOT > regen to slow > WOT > regen to slow to warm up the battery, and then plug in for significantly higher charge rates.
Click to expand...

That looks like something else that should be fixable in firmware. Tell the navigation system (do any PIEV's not have navigation?) where you are planning on fast charging and the car makes sure it has the pack up to temp to accept the charge (at the expense of range, but the car knows how much battery you have left and how much you should need to reach charger).
 
Thanks MSRP and PrivatePilot. That makes sense. The manufacturers will need to sort that out for sure to get the attention of the majority of consumers but cool to see the capability should be there.

I'd hate to see the look on a customers face if I had to explain to them the rollercoaster described to warm up the Tesla battery in winter temps just to charge it. Would not go over well at all.
 
PrivatePilot said:
So many people overestimate the range that they think they need.
Click to expand...

So true. We use our Volt and Bolt exactly the same way we previously used our ICE vehicles and with 20K on the Volt only 2K have been on gas. With the Bolt at nearly 40K I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen the battery down to 25% and I've had to use a lvl3 charger twice, for about 30mins each time.
 
PrivatePilot said:
There ARE charging standards - J1772 for level 1 and 2, and CCS for level 3.

It’s the manufacturers like Tesla and others who go proprietary that’s the problem. Tesla’s supercharging network is awesome, but it doesn’t do jack **** to spread the adoption of EV’s for those who choose a non-Tesla model.
Click to expand...

Its a pattern that seems to work well for Apple. Musk is no dummy.
 
Lunatic said:
So true. We use our Volt and Bolt exactly the same way we previously used our ICE vehicles and with 20K on the Volt only 2K have been on gas. With the Bolt at nearly 40K I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen the battery down to 25% and I've had to use a lvl3 charger twice, for about 30mins each time.
Click to expand...

But the Volt has a significant range advantage. I need to be able to drive 1 hour one way and then 1 hour back in the same day without worrying. 185k won't do it. 300k gives me all the range I need for the trip I take 2-3 times a month. If I can charge at my location that's great but I cannot count on it. I have another car for the long drives. Hybrids like the Volt (and my Prius) do the trick already. So there's no reason to go to an EV until they can take me 300km or so (maybe 250).
 
At the moment, there are 3 charging standards, SAE J1772 and CCS, CHAdeMO, Tesla. CHAdeMO is on the way out (I think Nissan is still using it), not capable of DC fast charging at a high enough rate. Tesla did their own because the other standards at the time didn't provide for DC fast charging at a high enough rate. Now it looks like CCS capability will overtake what Tesla does. Most non-Tesla public charging stations have both SAE and CHAdeMO. You can charge a Tesla at a J1772 charging station but not the other way around, Tesla charging stations are only for Tesla. IIRC Tesla has offered use of their charging network to other manufacturers (at a price, of course) but due to some combination of Musk being a pain in the tail and "not invented here" at other manufacturers, that is not happening.

IMO I would avoid an EV that has CHAdeMO only. The other two are fine, the choice will be if you buy a Tesla vehicle, or anything else that isn't stuck with CHAdeMO.

The very high charging rates that the Porsche and Audi (and probably other) vehicles will accept, is contingent on being plugged into a charging station that is capable of delivering that much. Most (nowadays) won't.

My own driving patterns have me all over the place due to the nature of my work. A Bolt will cover my daily travels 95+% of the time without ever using a public charging station. Peterborough and back would be on the edge. London or St Thomas and back would be on the edge. It's really just the Windsor return trips that would require public-charger stops ... a couple of them, in that case. Happens about once every couple of months. I have another (gas engine) vehicle that could cover those situations. The other vehicle (van) has double the fuel consumption of the current daily driver, but having to use that once every month would still net out being better off. If Ontario woke up and put serious fast-charging stations at all of the OnRoute service centers (may not happen under Doug Ford) then this issue would go away. That's my criteria for the next daily driver being an EV.
 
blackcamaro said:
I'd hate to see the look on a customers face if I had to explain to them the rollercoaster described to warm up the Tesla battery in winter temps just to charge it. Would not go over well at all.
Click to expand...

Battery temperature does play a roll in a lot of things on an EV - allowed discharge rate, charge rates (especially fast charging), and charge taper rates.

That said, most people overthink it. Heck, many have no idea it's even a big deal..because the cars take care of it all - both heating, and cooling.

The only way that an EV battery gets overly cold to begin with is if it's left unplugged, in extreme weather, for an extended period of time. Even then, when the car is turned on EV's have internal battery heaters that will bring the battery up to operating temperature in very little time. This is all invisible to the driver, the programming just does it's thing, but if you have some tools hooked up to the OBD port you can see when the car is actively heating or cooling the battery. My Volt usually runs the battery heater on my trip home from work every day in the winter when the battery temperature has dropped to 2-3c after sitting in the parking lot unplugged all day.

The biggest issue with fast charging is more often that the battery is too HOT (in the summer months) to accept high charge rates, not too cold....especially if the vehicle was being actively driven just before taking the fast charge and the battery is at peak operating temperature already. Most EV's with good active battery thermal management do extremely good jobs of keeping the battery in it's happy-spot whenever the vehicle is being operated, or is plugged in and charging, or sitting idle fully charged - again, our Volts will occasionally turn on the battery heaters overnight (when fully charged but still plugged in) in extreme cold weather to keep the batteries moderately warm.
 
And yet we have another reason to go with Hydrogen.

They work just great in the Cold, with out the nonsense listed above. Range or performance is not affected. You can blast your heater.


Its only a matter of time when the general buying public will realize that plugging in your car once, twice or more a day is a royal pain in the arse.

And having to tether your car to the same parking spot every time at your house or mall or place of work.

3-5 minutes recharge time and you are good to go till the next fill. No need to wait 30minutes, and hour, several hours. or more.


With a hydrogen car, you are gloriously free from all those restrictions.



Its coming, just watch.



https://www.greencarreports.com/new...ld-weather-performance-of-hydrogen-fuel-cells
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom