Riceburner
Well-known member
33L won't last me a week. 
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Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?
- Thread starter PrivatePilot
- Start date
33L won't last me a week.
My 110km round trip commute each day also prevents me from plugging in during the day to recharge for the trip home, so whatever battery power I start with in the morning is all I have until I plug in at dinner. Each day I get about +/- 80km of battery range, so the gas does kick in every day to cover the difference. When I started driving to work, I began with a full tank at 33L. I have put on about 1000km, and still have about 15L. The display says I am averaging about 1.8L/100km. So I basically use gas for 30km and pure electric for the other 80km. With this commute, my tank of gas has lasted 2 weeks so far.
Today I came home along the westbound 403 after 4pm and the traffic was pretty thick. HOV lane all the way
Not sure how far you drive, or even if there are HOV lanes, but this all adds up pretty sweet to me.
I don't think that forward creep movement is related to inability of the EV to stop on it's own in off-throttle position with a strong regen function on. I am not sure what percentage of EV's has a creep programmed in with gear selector selector in D or R. Soul does and I cannot turn it off, nor do I dislike it. I think it's all about ... do you want to be different, or do you want to feel like a gas car without gasoline engine etc.? That would explain why Tesla has the option to turn it off ... the problem i have with it being selectable and in off .... is the moment of surprise when you forget you are in D with car not moving and then you step on the throttle forgetting ... there could be some scary oh-**** moments. And we have seen few Tesla's in shopping windows and houses. I wonder where was their creep selector. I bet in off.
Oh, the creep on a Volt is very intentional - you can see the power draw on the motors as soon as you release the brake.
Many EV’s including the Bolt are doing away with creep as manufacturers are slipping away from the “it needs to drive just like an ICE” thoughts of old.
Many EV’s including the Bolt are doing away with creep as manufacturers are slipping away from the “it needs to drive just like an ICE” thoughts of old.
I just had to go through the Engine Running due to Maintenance, mode. I was both extremely happy that it's been so long since I used any gas and super upset that I was using gas. Haven't filled the tank since January and still have over a half tank left!
I don't mind it at all. Perfect for very slow yet moving traffic as well. In my view, not everything is wrong with ICE platforms ...
Interesting read,
The Ioniq has a much smaller battery back and still outperformed the Bolt (Opel Ampera) in cold conditions when it comes to energy consumption.
Even the new Leaf gets kudos' for it battery management.
edit: updated link to actual test article. https://elbil.no/the-biggest-electric-car-test-in-winter-wonderland-ever/
The Ioniq has a much smaller battery back and still outperformed the Bolt (Opel Ampera) in cold conditions when it comes to energy consumption.
Even the new Leaf gets kudos' for it battery management.
edit: updated link to actual test article. https://elbil.no/the-biggest-electric-car-test-in-winter-wonderland-ever/
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That's a good article. It's hardly surprising that the Bolt/Ampera isn't the electricity-consumption winner ... it has a bigger, heavier battery. (Heaviest vehicle in the test.) It IS the range winner, by a lot.
And, our resident GM hater quotes things selectively, as usual. Omitted ...
At the same time the Ampera-e was the only car to have (more or less) sufficient range to reach the final destination of the first test day.
And, our resident GM hater quotes things selectively, as usual. Omitted ...
At the same time the Ampera-e was the only car to have (more or less) sufficient range to reach the final destination of the first test day.
The test and my comments point to the efficiency of the way the batteries are used. Not which one goes further.
The other cars are clearly engineered better with what they are working with. The ioniq had the smallest battery yet was the most efficiently used.
That points to me as solid engineering.
This is kudos for the leaf?
"Another important point to come out of their tests was the Leaf’s important energy consumption in cold weather, as shown by the data above. It has always been a problem for the Leaf due to its rudimentary battery pack temperature control.
It has always been a problem with the Leaf and some thought that it would be fixed with the new generation, but early tests show that it is still not the case."
I don't think that word means what you think it means...
... waited for someone else to point that out.
The Bolt's battery pack is actively heated and cooled with a temperature controlled coolant loop and temperature sensors in every section of batteries. The old Leaf just circulated air from the passenger compartment to the battery to kindasorta slowly let battery temperature approach interior temperature after a long time. I think the new Leaf is the same way ... the new Leaf is just a makeover of the old one (the doors are the same!), granted it's a pretty thorough makeover and one which was badly needed, but the basics are all the same. I don't know how Hyundai manages the battery temperature but it would be hard to do better than what GM did.
The Ioniq is more aerodynamic than the Bolt (Cd = 0.24 which is very good) ... that will help with highway range. Building a tall hatchback with a higher rear roofline was an intentional choice by GM because people are buying CUVs (which are basically hatchbacks/wagons that sit a little higher). Hyundai has their own version of this, the Kona is the same thing as the Ioniq but with a CUV shape (and it probably won't match the Ioniq for range, because of that).
Here's a tidbit, just because I know it will tick somebody off. Chevrolet Bolt battery manufacturer ... LG Chem. Hyundai Ioniq battery manufacturer ... LG Chem.
I like the Ioniq. I've stated before that my next commuter car will probably be electric, although it is likely a few years in the future. By then, the long range version of the Ioniq should show up.
The Bolt's battery pack is actively heated and cooled with a temperature controlled coolant loop and temperature sensors in every section of batteries. The old Leaf just circulated air from the passenger compartment to the battery to kindasorta slowly let battery temperature approach interior temperature after a long time. I think the new Leaf is the same way ... the new Leaf is just a makeover of the old one (the doors are the same!), granted it's a pretty thorough makeover and one which was badly needed, but the basics are all the same. I don't know how Hyundai manages the battery temperature but it would be hard to do better than what GM did.
The Ioniq is more aerodynamic than the Bolt (Cd = 0.24 which is very good) ... that will help with highway range. Building a tall hatchback with a higher rear roofline was an intentional choice by GM because people are buying CUVs (which are basically hatchbacks/wagons that sit a little higher). Hyundai has their own version of this, the Kona is the same thing as the Ioniq but with a CUV shape (and it probably won't match the Ioniq for range, because of that).
Here's a tidbit, just because I know it will tick somebody off. Chevrolet Bolt battery manufacturer ... LG Chem. Hyundai Ioniq battery manufacturer ... LG Chem.
I like the Ioniq. I've stated before that my next commuter car will probably be electric, although it is likely a few years in the future. By then, the long range version of the Ioniq should show up.
So where are we on the technology curve?
If the government perks were eliminated how do the EVs stand up?
1) Performance seems to be good.
2) Cost is too high.
3) Recharge time is too long.
4) Range is iffy for a lot of users.
5) Simplicity is an issue.
Much of the below is my opinion.
1) Performance doesn't seem to be an issue.
2) If the cost goes up $10,000 to $15,000 I see sales dropping, more likely crashing. Everyone is noble until they have to open their own wallet.
3) The recharge time issue is a massive variable depending on where you live, work and shop. Browsing power at free spots is a bonus but not sustainable if too many EVs hit the road.
4) Range and recharge time go hand in hand, a left and right glove so to speak. If you don't need much range you don't have as many recharge issues.
5) Simplicity. While it appears that the smart dash gives the driver a lot of planning information how many drivers are smart enough to use the info?
Most haven't figured out how to use a turn signal. I was talking to an individual the other day, someone with a technical background. When the conversation touched on EVs he commented that they should hook up a generator to one of the wheels so when the car is running down the highway it's recharging the batteries. Perpetual motion.
This thread give all kinds of tips for economizing energy usage, range and energy costs but I see so much dense attitude in the world that I have difficulty seeing how, in North America, EV's will ever take over the car market.
Re the technology, is it a straight line or a bell curve and where are we on it?
If there is a quantum leap in items 2, 3 or 4 I wouldn't want to be owning an older vehicle unless my circumstances were guaranteed to not change. Leasing puts the risk on the dealer.
If the government perks were eliminated how do the EVs stand up?
1) Performance seems to be good.
2) Cost is too high.
3) Recharge time is too long.
4) Range is iffy for a lot of users.
5) Simplicity is an issue.
Much of the below is my opinion.
1) Performance doesn't seem to be an issue.
2) If the cost goes up $10,000 to $15,000 I see sales dropping, more likely crashing. Everyone is noble until they have to open their own wallet.
3) The recharge time issue is a massive variable depending on where you live, work and shop. Browsing power at free spots is a bonus but not sustainable if too many EVs hit the road.
4) Range and recharge time go hand in hand, a left and right glove so to speak. If you don't need much range you don't have as many recharge issues.
5) Simplicity. While it appears that the smart dash gives the driver a lot of planning information how many drivers are smart enough to use the info?
Most haven't figured out how to use a turn signal. I was talking to an individual the other day, someone with a technical background. When the conversation touched on EVs he commented that they should hook up a generator to one of the wheels so when the car is running down the highway it's recharging the batteries. Perpetual motion.
This thread give all kinds of tips for economizing energy usage, range and energy costs but I see so much dense attitude in the world that I have difficulty seeing how, in North America, EV's will ever take over the car market.
Re the technology, is it a straight line or a bell curve and where are we on it?
If there is a quantum leap in items 2, 3 or 4 I wouldn't want to be owning an older vehicle unless my circumstances were guaranteed to not change. Leasing puts the risk on the dealer.
Just bumped into a friend of a friend on Facebook a few days ago that has a Leaf as well as Volt.
He said he got it for a steal because it has suffered major battery degradation - seems the previous owner parked it in direct sun at both home and work and refused to ever use AC at all that might have cooled the battery a little (because it ate range), and he also fast charged a lot, so the battery suffered accordingly.
He says it struggles to get 60KM of range now, but with a 25KM commute, and charging at work, he says "Meh, it works". Fair enough.
But wow, this just goes to show you that Nissan really should have stepped up and dealt with the thermal management issues (basically, a near total lack thereof) in the Leaf on the new generation ones. The fact that they didn't is just flabbergasting honestly.
If you really want an eye opener as to how crappy the Leaf setup is, watch this video - a well spent 7 minutes with more than few eye openers (the Leaf's owners manual has some absolutely insane requirements) with some laughs as well.
[video=youtube;WlxBOJrEKAo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlxBOJrEKAo[/video]
He said he got it for a steal because it has suffered major battery degradation - seems the previous owner parked it in direct sun at both home and work and refused to ever use AC at all that might have cooled the battery a little (because it ate range), and he also fast charged a lot, so the battery suffered accordingly.
He says it struggles to get 60KM of range now, but with a 25KM commute, and charging at work, he says "Meh, it works". Fair enough.
But wow, this just goes to show you that Nissan really should have stepped up and dealt with the thermal management issues (basically, a near total lack thereof) in the Leaf on the new generation ones. The fact that they didn't is just flabbergasting honestly.
If you really want an eye opener as to how crappy the Leaf setup is, watch this video - a well spent 7 minutes with more than few eye openers (the Leaf's owners manual has some absolutely insane requirements) with some laughs as well.
[video=youtube;WlxBOJrEKAo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlxBOJrEKAo[/video]
My 110km round trip commute each day also prevents me from plugging in during the day to recharge for the trip home, so whatever battery power I start with in the morning is all I have until I plug in at dinner. Each day I get about +/- 80km of battery range, so the gas does kick in every day to cover the difference. When I started driving to work, I began with a full tank at 33L. I have put on about 1000km, and still have about 15L. The display says I am averaging about 1.8L/100km. So I basically use gas for 30km and pure electric for the other 80km. With this commute, my tank of gas has lasted 2 weeks so far.
Today I came home along the westbound 403 after 4pm and the traffic was pretty thick. HOV lane all the way
Not sure how far you drive, or even if there are HOV lanes, but this all adds up pretty sweet to me.
I think you may be able to extend your electric range by selecting to 20-30km of driving that you want the ICE to operate, and saving the battery for low speed, stop-start sections of your commute. If the traffic you encounter is predictable enough to do that, then saving the ICE for uninterrupted high speed runs will be more fuel efficient, while using the battery for lower speed stuff will extend your electric range.
Bolt's cabin heating where GM cut costs and used just plain resitive heater ... so the aero, cabin heating and higher oveall weight (mainly due to significantly bigger pack) I think makes the Ioniq quite more efficient, especially in the winter.
I personally would be looking for 60kWh Kia Niro EV (just because it's slightly more spacious in the back than Kona), which really should have the same guts as Kona and that has same bits as Ioniq. All the same platform, I believe. That will be all I need for my long distance car.
The new Leaf 40 kWh version will apparently not fast charge more than twice in one trip ... not without significant cool down. Not exactly fair from Nissan that they have not been upfront about it, but rather stuck it on page xx in their manual, which most people will not read, until it actually happens to them on the road. It would not bother me, since I'd always treat 40kWh car as a city car, so one quick charge a day very maximum ever. If I need to do two quick charges, I am sleeping for sure in between anyway. I am pretty sure that's what Nissan's thinking was .... but tell that to taxi drivers in Europe using the cars and quick charging more than twice a day.
So I just passed 15,00km on the Bolt since we picked it up in mid October and according to the JuiceBox we used 3703kWh to charge it at home. All home charging was done at off peak rates. All other charging was done free at work or from free DCFC stations. So to drive the Bolt for 5.5 months and 15000km it has cost us $240.70. Not too bad I think
With the Volt we've only got 1450km on it so far, but 1431 of those km have been electric and we're at 0.6l/100km.
With the Volt we've only got 1450km on it so far, but 1431 of those km have been electric and we're at 0.6l/100km.
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Awesome.
For comparison, 15,000KM on a pickup/SUV consuming ~15L/100KM and $1.20/L average gas price would have cost someone $2700 in gas.
A Prius consuming 5L/100KM using the same gas price would have used $720 in gas. And you’d be stuck driving a POS Prius.
For comparison, 15,000KM on a pickup/SUV consuming ~15L/100KM and $1.20/L average gas price would have cost someone $2700 in gas.
A Prius consuming 5L/100KM using the same gas price would have used $720 in gas. And you’d be stuck driving a POS Prius.
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