Another young rider died near 400 and hwy 7

[RR929]

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Such a tragedy on another life loss. So far, not much had been mentioned on the news but some fellow riders had shared some additional information.

Apparently, the young victim just started riding this year and was riding a 600cc bike. Someone mentioned that it was a group ride and the rider is riding at the end of the pack.

This is solely just my assumption... but I am guessing the group is going on the on-ramp south on 400 off hwy 7, which is a hairpin turn. For some inexperience rider, sometime a routine left hand turn on a traffic light could lead them to fall even going at maybe 40km/hr or slower.

I recall a newbie group ride late last season posted on this forum had mentioned that a new rider crashed trying to follow the lead rider on a left hand turn on a traffic stop.

For the accident last night, not sure how fast the riders where going and how fast they engaged the on ramp. Perhaps it was only at the posted speed limit. Maybe the young rider who died was trying to catch up and did not brake fast enough before engaging the on ramp or perhaps he was going at the speed of the riders ahead of him but did not have the experience to make the turn at that speed. Who knows. Or it could just be the cold weather, wind, cold tire, oil patch, bad luck. whatever....

Regardless, condolence to the family of the young victim and hopefully we don't hear too much more about these tragic events.

 

[yammyr6]

rip

 

[PLau]

Already posted in Fallen Riders section.

 

[Sunny87]

Already posted in Fallen Riders section.

Yea, but i think OP wanted to make this post to discuss this more in detail while keeping the RIP thread clean of discussion.

Having said that, I wonder how the accident went down. I find it hard to wrap my head around a single vehicle accident on an on-ramp taking someone's life. Even if he wasn't wearing gear, it's hard to see how something so tragic could happen. Unless there's something special about this on ramp?

 

[Royal Flush]

yeah im starting to think it was a good idea to start on a 250
may he rest in peace

 

[mikbusa]

I'm bothered every time I see reports of a young person crashing and dying who's the same age as my sons. It bother me that nobody was watching out for them. Can we do something about it? **** yes. Group riding could be a great way for a new rider to pick up some skills, but that's not what usually happens. They get thrown at the tail end of a fast riding group and everybody hopes they make it. This isn't working. Whether it's peer pressure to keep up, pride, ignorance, whatever, they get in over their heads. Telling a noob to "ride their own ride" when they don't know wtf appropriate speeds are for their skills are, this is also not working.

So what can we do you ask? Watch out for the new riders for ****s sakes. They are handing out messages that they are in too deep. Read the chicken strips on tires before a ride. If you see somebody that looks uncomfortable on their bike, cornering poorly, crossing the line because they aren't dealing with the speed of the pack well, work with them. Watch what they are doing, offer pointers. Take them out for some one on one time, cool the pace, get them cornering properly. An inexperienced rider often didn't know they were in trouble until their bike stops sliding into the ditch. If being able to handle speed that a new rider fails at fluffs your ego, well give your head a shake.

I've made the offer with EVERY new rider that looks like they are at risk, a bunch have taken me up on the offer. Taking them aside at a stop in a group ride, offering tips whatever, won't embarrass them. When I'm leading a group, pace is set to the lowest common denominator, not the fastest. If faster riders find the pace slow, that's fine, they are welcome to self-fornicate and leave. Yes I baby the new riders, and they all make it home.

That is all, as a "community" I think we treat our young poorly.

 

[Jayv]

I'm bothered every time I see reports of a young person crashing and dying who's the same age as my sons. It bother me that nobody was watching out for them. Can we do something about it? **** yes.

Mike, it's too easy to get a licence and any size bike you want after asking 30 multiple choice questions.

I am not saying any of this had any thing to do with the crash last night, but just a general comment that Canadian motorcycle licence standards and the way they are issued have some serious flaws.

 

[koma]

Mike, it's too easy to get a licence and any size bike you want after asking 30 multiple choice questions.

I am not saying any of this had any thing to do with the crash last night, but just a general comment that Canadian motorcycle licence standards and the way they are issued have some serious flaws.

Definitely true. And, if anything, it strengthens his point.

 

[Tango5]

This is very sad. RIP rider, and no disrespect to the rider or family & friends, you have my condolences.

IMO
Decreasing radius ramps + guardrails + inexperience = disaster

http://goo.gl/maps/od497 this satellite view of the area shows the radius of the ramps, if you look at the southbound ramp, there is a section between 8 and 11 o'clock where you can be lulled into speeding up, to be suddently confronted with the need to lean much more at 1 o'clock.

Be careful out there folks.

 

[Brian P]

Having said that, I wonder how the accident went down. I find it hard to wrap my head around a single vehicle accident on an on-ramp taking someone's life. Even if he wasn't wearing gear, it's hard to see how something so tragic could happen. Unless there's something special about this on ramp?

I don't know if it happened eastbound or westbound on 7 leading to SB 400. If it was EB 7 to SB 400, it is a gentle, sweeping right with a guard-rail to the left all the way around. If it was WB 7 to SB 400, it is a rather wide-radius 270 degree loop with the first part guardrail and then concrete barrier on the outside. Visibility is good but keep in mind that after dark, looking ahead around the corner on a wider corner like this would likely require looking beyond where one's own headlights will illuminate the road. Target fixation is highly likely in this case. It's possible that the new rider was following traffic and thought that would be an appropriate speed around the ramp, and perhaps it might have been for someone more experienced, but ended up target-fixating.

 

[mikbusa]

Mike, it's too easy to get a licence and any size bike you want after asking 30 multiple choice questions.

I am not saying any of this had any thing to do with the crash last night, but just a general comment that Canadian motorcycle licence standards and the way they are issued have some serious flaws.

I agree Jay, a graduated licensing system makes sense, it's in place in other countries, I made my self work my way up from A-Z, it made sense. Our M1 license process, yeah it's a joke, there's a lot of room for improvement. In the near future, we can improve as a group.

 

[Paulhv1]

I'm bothered every time I see reports of a young person crashing and dying who's the same age as my sons. It bother me that nobody was watching out for them. Can we do something about it? **** yes. Group riding could be a great way for a new rider to pick up some skills, but that's not what usually happens. They get thrown at the tail end of a fast riding group and everybody hopes they make it. This isn't working. Whether it's peer pressure to keep up, pride, ignorance, whatever, they get in over their heads. Telling a noob to "ride their own ride" when they don't know wtf appropriate speeds are for their skills are, this is also not working.

So what can we do you ask? Watch out for the new riders for ****s sakes. They are handing out messages that they are in too deep. Read the chicken strips on tires before a ride. If you see somebody that looks uncomfortable on their bike, cornering poorly, crossing the line because they aren't dealing with the speed of the pack well, work with them. Watch what they are doing, offer pointers. Take them out for some one on one time, cool the pace, get them cornering properly. An inexperienced rider often didn't know they were in trouble until their bike stops sliding into the ditch. If being able to handle speed that a new rider fails at fluffs your ego, well give your head a shake.

I've made the offer with EVERY new rider that looks like they are at risk, a bunch have taken me up on the offer. Taking them aside at a stop in a group ride, offering tips whatever, won't embarrass them. When I'm leading a group, pace is set to the lowest common denominator, not the fastest. If faster riders find the pace slow, that's fine, they are welcome to self-fornicate and leave. Yes I baby the new riders, and they all make it home.

That is all, as a "community" I think we treat our young poorly.

Post of the year, Mike you are exactly the kind of rider I will only ride with. I was out on my second ever ride with a so called friend of mine who had a zx10r and his idea of a gentle ride was passing me in my own lane at full throttle. I excused myself at the next stop sign and never rode with him again. The real kick in the nuts was I found out later he was complaining to a mutual friend that I was riding to slow for him and I should have tried to keep up with his pace.

 

[Sinz]

I agree with mikbusa...

New riders that join the more experienced riders group rides should just take it easy at their own pace, I ride in groups also and some of these guys are fast and good riders, myself I don't try to keep up if I am not confident enough, I take my time and I meet them at the meeting spot on my own terms, I don't try to impress anyone by riding fast or dragging my knees...I usually am a little late but I know will be arriving alive!

I am the type that will watch out the new guys to make sure that they get home after a ride...that's the type of riders the new guys should be riding with, not the stunters, speed demons or insane show offs, there is a track for that not public streets!

 

[Tango5]

I don't know if it happened eastbound or westbound on 7 leading to SB 400. If it was EB 7 to SB 400, it is a gentle, sweeping right with a guard-rail to the left all the way around. If it was WB 7 to SB 400, it is a rather wide-radius 270 degree loop with the first part guardrail and then concrete barrier on the outside. Visibility is good but keep in mind that after dark, looking ahead around the corner on a wider corner like this would likely require looking beyond where one's own headlights will illuminate the road. Target fixation is highly likely in this case. It's possible that the new rider was following traffic and thought that would be an appropriate speed around the ramp, and perhaps it might have been for someone more experienced, but ended up target-fixating.

I made the assumption that it must be WB 7 to SB 400, it never occured to me it could be the EB ramp just because as you said, it's a gentle, sweeping right. Although that would allow one to carry more speed.

 

[nearace]

RIP rider,The will to keep up the pace will get you in trouble,straight line no problem,corners we must respect IMO,be safe members.

 

[RR929]

At the moment, sometime it is easier said than done to ride at your own comfort zone. When you are riding in a group, there is a sense of security and invincibility.

 

[Paul1000RR]

Such a tragedy on another life loss. So far, not much had been mentioned on the news but some fellow riders had shared some additional information.

Apparently, the young victim just started riding this year and was riding a 600cc bike. Someone mentioned that it was a group ride and the rider is riding at the end of the pack.

This is solely just my assumption... but I am guessing the group is going on the on-ramp south on 400 off hwy 7, which is a hairpin turn. For some inexperience rider, sometime a routine left hand turn on a traffic light could lead them to fall even going at maybe 40km/hr or slower.

I recall a newbie group ride late last season posted on this forum had mentioned that a new rider crashed trying to follow the lead rider on a left hand turn on a traffic stop.

For the accident last night, not sure how fast the riders where going and how fast they engaged the on ramp. Perhaps it was only at the posted speed limit. Maybe the young rider who died was trying to catch up and did not brake fast enough before engaging the on ramp or perhaps he was going at the speed of the riders ahead of him but did not have the experience to make the turn at that speed. Who knows. Or it could just be the cold weather, wind, cold tire, oil patch, bad luck. whatever....

Regardless, condolence to the family of the young victim and hopefully we don't hear too much more about these tragic events.

I'm bothered every time I see reports of a young person crashing and dying who's the same age as my sons. It bother me that nobody was watching out for them. Can we do something about it? **** yes. Group riding could be a great way for a new rider to pick up some skills, but that's not what usually happens. They get thrown at the tail end of a fast riding group and everybody hopes they make it. This isn't working. Whether it's peer pressure to keep up, pride, ignorance, whatever, they get in over their heads. Telling a noob to "ride their own ride" when they don't know wtf appropriate speeds are for their skills are, this is also not working.

So what can we do you ask? Watch out for the new riders for ****s sakes. They are handing out messages that they are in too deep. Read the chicken strips on tires before a ride. If you see somebody that looks uncomfortable on their bike, cornering poorly, crossing the line because they aren't dealing with the speed of the pack well, work with them. Watch what they are doing, offer pointers. Take them out for some one on one time, cool the pace, get them cornering properly. An inexperienced rider often didn't know they were in trouble until their bike stops sliding into the ditch. If being able to handle speed that a new rider fails at fluffs your ego, well give your head a shake.

I've made the offer with EVERY new rider that looks like they are at risk, a bunch have taken me up on the offer. Taking them aside at a stop in a group ride, offering tips whatever, won't embarrass them. When I'm leading a group, pace is set to the lowest common denominator, not the fastest. If faster riders find the pace slow, that's fine, they are welcome to self-fornicate and leave. Yes I baby the new riders, and they all make it home.

That is all, as a "community" I think we treat our young poorly.

I agree with you guys on pretty much all points. The problem however is that a lot of young riders of sportbikes take a rather macho approach to motorcycles. Its who has the fastest bike, who can ride the quickest etc...

Add to the mix leaders who are trying to prove to everyone else that they're the next rossi and you have a disaster waiting to happen. A lot of guys really have no business leading group rides sine they lack the maturity and understanding of what it actually takes to lead a group ride.

It also baffles my mind how no one says anything to these "leaders", and the new riders don't know any better until it ends in something tragic.


RIP to the rider and condolences to the family and friends.

yeah im starting to think it was a good idea to start on a 250
may he rest in peace

You have the first half of the equation down, now the second part is how and with whom you choose to ride with.

 

[Pedagogue]

I'm bothered every time I see reports of a young person crashing and dying who's the same age as my sons. It bother me that nobody was watching out for them. Can we do something about it? **** yes. Group riding could be a great way for a new rider to pick up some skills, but that's not what usually happens. They get thrown at the tail end of a fast riding group and everybody hopes they make it. This isn't working. Whether it's peer pressure to keep up, pride, ignorance, whatever, they get in over their heads. Telling a noob to "ride their own ride" when they don't know wtf appropriate speeds are for their skills are, this is also not working.

So what can we do you ask? Watch out for the new riders for ****s sakes. They are handing out messages that they are in too deep. Read the chicken strips on tires before a ride. If you see somebody that looks uncomfortable on their bike, cornering poorly, crossing the line because they aren't dealing with the speed of the pack well, work with them. Watch what they are doing, offer pointers. Take them out for some one on one time, cool the pace, get them cornering properly. An inexperienced rider often didn't know they were in trouble until their bike stops sliding into the ditch. If being able to handle speed that a new rider fails at fluffs your ego, well give your head a shake.

I've made the offer with EVERY new rider that looks like they are at risk, a bunch have taken me up on the offer. Taking them aside at a stop in a group ride, offering tips whatever, won't embarrass them. When I'm leading a group, pace is set to the lowest common denominator, not the fastest. If faster riders find the pace slow, that's fine, they are welcome to self-fornicate and leave. Yes I baby the new riders, and they all make it home.

That is all, as a "community" I think we treat our young poorly.

This is the type of mature/knowledgeable post that we need. Very sad for the young rider and his family. So many things wrong with the picture e.g. 1) newer rider on 675r 2) newer rider on group ride that's taking the highway, etc. It's so hard not to pass judgement. Ride safe everyone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Roomie]

yeah im starting to think it was a good idea to start on a 250
may he rest in peace

Smartest post I've seen you make yet. I also agree with what Paul1000RR said in reply to your statement. Well done :thumbup:

I've made the offer with EVERY new rider that looks like they are at risk, a bunch have taken me up on the offer. Taking them aside at a stop in a group ride, offering tips whatever, won't embarrass them. When I'm leading a group, pace is set to the lowest common denominator, not the fastest. If faster riders find the pace slow, that's fine, they are welcome to self-fornicate and leave. Yes I baby the new riders, and they all make it home.

That is all, as a "community" I think we treat our young poorly.

Definitely should be more folks out there like you. The only way new people can learn is by being helped. I feel that you can read all you want but until you get first hand tips or experience you don't fully understand everything you've read.

Mike, it's too easy to get a licence and any size bike you want after asking 30 multiple choice questions.

I am not saying any of this had any thing to do with the crash last night, but just a general comment that Canadian motorcycle licence standards and the way they are issued have some serious flaws.

While I agree with you, the only thing I will say against what you said is that this could have happened on any size bike so I don't think it was necessarily a factor in what happened with this situation. A 250 is capable of going too fast on a ramp with an inexperienced rider.

I agree with you guys on pretty much all points. The problem however is that a lot of young riders of sportbikes take a rather macho approach to motorcycles. Its who has the fastest bike, who can ride the quickest etc...

Add to the mix leaders who are trying to prove to everyone else that they're the next rossi and you have a disaster waiting to happen. A lot of guys really have no business leading group rides sine they lack the maturity and understanding of what it actually takes to lead a group ride.

It also baffles my mind how no one says anything to these "leaders", and the new riders don't know any better until it ends in something tragic.


RIP to the rider and condolences to the family and friends.

I would say the "leaders" who do things like that are 100% in the wrong and should not be leading any sort of ride with new people. I also agree with the newbs and macho = stupid.

 

[AGAVE]

The age of the person shouldn't be an issue, there are many young riders who can clean all our clocks.
I have a problem with someone who suddenly "decides" they want to ride a motorcycle for whatever reason.
When i hear that, i ask them a few questions first, and explain what i would call the "minimum skills" to get a street bike.
For example>
-How well do you ride a bicycle? What kinds of bike riding have you done? >mountain bikes, bmx etc....
-Have you ever ridden a scooter?
-Have you ridden a dirtbike? If yes> Have you crashed a couple times while learning?
-Have you ridden a crappy old streetbike, some kinda cruiser, or any "regular" type moto before?
A person needs to be able to answer YES to most of these or they shouldn't even try a streetbike, especially a sportbike with 26 degrees of rake.

If you aren't skilled on two wheels at all, you don't just decide that you want to ride one day cause it's cool.
I can remember wanting to ride anything with 2 wheels since i could walk, it's a sport of passion, not a fad.
I've seen experienced riders that still can't get it right, some people just shouldn't ride.

This whole situation is a shame to say the least.
R.I.P. rider.

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