Another question for the trades guys here

Its not really a trade " advantage ", but I have several business owner friends that have ( And Im not saying its right or wrong) bought generators, trailers, and even outboard motors (on the books as a mixing machine I think) with company money. If it works for you and you were going to buy it anyway, pretax dollars look ok.......

I wont judge anybody with a cool camp setup, as long as they get that they wont sell it later at a profit when they are done, I love that story= I bought this unit so cheap in three years I'll turn a profit.
 
No one can judge anyone, if you work hard for your stuff and it betters your life, go ahead and buy it, just make sure you are able to pay for your kids education and food.

Its not really a trade " advantage ", but I have several business owner friends that have ( And Im not saying its right or wrong) bought generators, trailers, and even outboard motors (on the books as a mixing machine I think) with company money. If it works for you and you were going to buy it anyway, pretax dollars look ok.......

I wont judge anybody with a cool camp setup, as long as they get that they wont sell it later at a profit when they are done, I love that story= I bought this unit so cheap in three years I'll turn a profit.
 
You got ripped off.
Cheapest guy I could find. And I know a lot of ppl in the construction biz.

This is the point of posting this in the thread, learn a 'trade' or a 'skill', and ppl will pay.

Too many of the new generation kids just don't get it and/or simply don't want to work or acquire these skills.

I hear it all the time talking to other contractors in all fields.

It's a shame, but dayum is it great for us guys making a living in the trades. :)





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Should have called my dad. He's licensed and bonded and only charges $40/hr and he would have even brought material for you.

$50/hr for a fairly simple job is insane.


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Sunny is right....there is little new blood.
The average guy doing what I do is mid 50's.
There are very few younger than me.
I have had two long term apprentices...one for 10 yrs, and one for 7.
The first finally went on his own, does ok financially I guess, but word is getting around our community about his lack of care and prie in his workmanship. Too bad really. I can teach a guy skills, but I can't make him give a ****- his momma ****ed that up before he was 5 y.o. as far as I am concerned.
The second guy decided that construction trades are too hard of work, and he went back to school, sure that he will will one day own a chain of franchises, he says.
 
Should have called my dad. He's licensed and bonded and only charges $40/hr and he would have even brought material for you.

$50/hr for a fairly simple job is insane.


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I disagee.Your dad is charging $40 an hour and not really taking a risk as long the customer agrees and pays.Suny's guy took a risk and gave a quoted price for the job and therefore deserving of a higher reward.He could just as easily lost money on the job.So I dont think $50 as opposed to $40 an hour is insane if the guy worked quickly and efficiently.I charge $75 an hour and by the time I've paid to buy and maintain a vehicle,purchase tools,maintain 3 licences and a $2,000,000 liability insurance policy as well as auto insurance, there really isn't muchleft after I pay my taxes.Now that's insane.
 
I should just install suspended ceilings for a few years then retire.


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When I worked it out, he earned $50/hr cash. Not too shabby for a sideline job he does "for fun". Wasn't very laborious at all. I supplied all the materials, he just showed up.

You keep counting the money as the ultimate sign of success. People do things while your guy is driving around installing ceilings .... Sorry, I thought it was pretty obvious from the reactions you got, I guess not ....

Sure, maybe it's so much fun for him that he likes it better than anything else including his family, friends .... In that case I am glad I am not him.
 
^yup, I leave the house at 5:30am and I'm back in the door at 3:50pm. I haven't worked a weekend in a very long time and if I do it's double time just like anything before 7:00am or after 3:15pm.

Ill have plenty of time to spend with my kid while he grows up and there's no price you can put on those memories.

Keep your "high paying" desk jobs.
 
Most building trades are very difficult--impossible to outsource/offshore for obvious reasons. This is good.

As for the apprenticeship... while much of it is there to make sure the bottom of the barrel gets a chance to learn, it is also there to keep the best and brightest down for as long as possible. I don't have specific answers but there should be a way to fast track those that have the skills and smarts, some sort of challenge (skill test and exam in lieu of hours), make it damn hard. This will help get the best into trades...the key s not just an exam, but also practical/craft.
 
^yup, I leave the house at 5:30am and I'm back in the door at 3:50pm. I haven't worked a weekend in a very long time and if I do it's double time just like anything before 7:00am or after 3:15pm.

Ill have plenty of time to spend with my kid while he grows up and there's no price you can put on those memories.

Keep your "high paying" desk jobs.

Seconded. Having some fancy condo or home and a bmw because your pay supports your lifelong debt isn't success to many people.
 
I like spending money precisely because it's hard to earn. #YOLO
 
I should just install suspended ceilings for a few years then retire.


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That's the gravy work. Ain't gonna happen if you're brand new to an outfit.

If you're doing it on the side, there are many not so nice people out there who won't pay, if it's under the table.

I was in the Drywall and acoustic many years ago. We were walking through rooms where asbestos was being sprayed onto ceilings before they knew the health risk. Was on jobs where people fell, or were electrocuted, cut open, had stuff fall on them. There's a building downtown near the HHoF, and I know the spot where a young kid landed on a terrazzo machine. Stuff like that's, not going to happen in an office job. There were some dough-heads, and some stoners. Some first year apprentices are paid less than labourers, so guess which types of jobs they get from a General Contractor, sometimes even when the Union knows. There are journeymen that know less than some Apprentices, and this was one of the things that got me. Having the Foreman give me guff, because I should know better, and should tell them what to do. There weren't many women in the field, so it was pretty much only after work that you'd see them. Perhaps, that why some many workers engage in catcalls etc. It's great to be able to use both your hands and your brain together though. You also get to say "I built that". We used to get laid of pretty regularly around Christmas, and then it would pick up. Being in a Union then, you didn't have to fill out UIC, if you were on the list, and ready to work.

Commercial back then was very different from Residential, which was mostly piecework. We'd have people come in, who weren't taught properly. They'd kick a hole in the Drywall where the box was going and expect to have the Taper fix it. Another pair that were laminating Drywall onto concrete, pounded a conduit flat, instead of firing pout the Drywall. An electrician dumped florescent light cases with no safety chains, into an unfinished grid ceiling, that hadn't been levelled. It's always a pain when the Mechanicals forget stuff and come back to install something into finished work.

You out definitely need Math, fractions were a pain for some. Basic stuff like the 3,4,5 rule and being able to add fractions in your head. Transfer measurements etc.

I eventually got out into computers, which was a little bit steadier. I had to take a pay cut to get in.

Lots of people seem to be going into HVAC now. I'm wondering if there'll be a glut at some point.

I'm going to check back at the Electrician stuff posted, as my Nephew is trying to get into that in the GTA.
 
I was on a job where a plumbers apprentice tried to walk across a vinyl tile ceiling (not even the mains, he tried to step on a tile) with the expected result (landed on his head from 10', trip to the hospital). Some people are just not cut out for jobs that require a brain.

Some full journeyman were weak, they were essentially stuck as 2nd year apprentices, 15 times over. On the flip side, some apprentices were genius and got fed up with the slow pace of the apprenticeship program, there's no perfect system.
 
Just saw an ad on TV about joining the Peel Region police. Sweet gig.

I won't add any topical jokes to that.
TV? That's high cost. I like the crappy looking sign on the side of the road out by the Best Buy north of Yorkdale with just a phone number on it to become a cop.

http://www.macleans.ca/society/life/why-your-teenager-cant-use-a-hammer/

Nothing wrong with learning a trade. Through my education (engineering) I have learned that there are two types of engineers. There are those who can solve advanced calculus differential equations in their head but don't know which way to turn a wrench, then there's the practical engineers like me. When people complain about how engineers design ridiculously complicated things that are impossible to build, that's the result of a design engineer who never played with Lego or took apart a lawn mower when they were little. Their design might work incredibly well, but they're clueless when it comes to general fabrication principles.
We have problems with this in my company. We hire a lot of coop electrical engineering students. Then we find out they don't actually know what a resistor looks like, how to solder, or how to use a screw driver and they are basically useless in our department. I got a Bachelor of Applied Technology and we covered everything from programming, electronic design, electronic manufacturing, mechanical design, mechanical manufacturing and assembly, lean manufacturing, project management, etc so it was surprising to me to encounter these guys that had so much theoretical knowledge but absolutely no practical knowledge/skills.

To those that own houses in Toronto: where do you live and approximately how much do you make (if you don't mind me asking)? I thought I was doing alright (I'm not really in trades so I guess this is kind of off topic) and my gf works full time as well in an ok paying job but we're still struggling to find a home we'd be able to afford in a decent area. Then again, we eat out a lot, drink a lot, go on several trips a year, and I own 3 vehicles for myself (although they're all pretty cheap with low insurance rates). Although we cut back on a few other things like we don't have cable TV (just stream).
 
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That's the gravy work. Ain't gonna happen if you're brand new to an outfit.

If you're doing it on the side, there are many not so nice people out there who won't pay, if it's under the table.

I was in the Drywall and acoustic many years ago. We were walking through rooms where asbestos was being sprayed onto ceilings before they knew the health risk. Was on jobs where people fell, or were electrocuted, cut open, had stuff fall on them. There's a building downtown near the HHoF, and I know the spot where a young kid landed on a terrazzo machine. Stuff like that's, not going to happen in an office job. There were some dough-heads, and some stoners. Some first year apprentices are paid less than labourers, so guess which types of jobs they get from a General Contractor, sometimes even when the Union knows. There are journeymen that know less than some Apprentices, and this was one of the things that got me. Having the Foreman give me guff, because I should know better, and should tell them what to do. There weren't many women in the field, so it was pretty much only after work that you'd see them. Perhaps, that why some many workers engage in catcalls etc. It's great to be able to use both your hands and your brain together though. You also get to say "I built that". We used to get laid of pretty regularly around Christmas, and then it would pick up. Being in a Union then, you didn't have to fill out UIC, if you were on the list, and ready to work.

Commercial back then was very different from Residential, which was mostly piecework. We'd have people come in, who weren't taught properly. They'd kick a hole in the Drywall where the box was going and expect to have the Taper fix it. Another pair that were laminating Drywall onto concrete, pounded a conduit flat, instead of firing pout the Drywall. An electrician dumped florescent light cases with no safety chains, into an unfinished grid ceiling, that hadn't been levelled. It's always a pain when the Mechanicals forget stuff and come back to install something into finished work.

You out definitely need Math, fractions were a pain for some. Basic stuff like the 3,4,5 rule and being able to add fractions in your head. Transfer measurements etc.

I eventually got out into computers, which was a little bit steadier. I had to take a pay cut to get in.

Lots of people seem to be going into HVAC now. I'm wondering if there'll be a glut at some point.

I'm going to check back at the Electrician stuff posted, as my Nephew is trying to get into that in the GTA.


The point I was trying to make was that installing suspended ceilings is pretty easy. Certain jobs that require a lot of skill and/or special tooling can easily be worth $50/hr and even more!

I have installed a few suspended ceilings, I've installed several kilometres of wood fencing, built a few nice decks and gazebos, done some tile work and other small home reno projects. Lots of jobs that are more difficult than a suspended ceiling and I am by no means an expert. Suspended ceilings don't require the skill set or tooling to warrant $50/hr.


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