Not really...you may find you are "outsourced to another country"...in this country
LOT OF UNDERCUTTING...$$$ TALKS
Another question for the trades guys here
- Thread starter Mongrel
- Start date
Not really...you may find you are "outsourced to another country"...in this country
LOT OF UNDERCUTTING...$$$ TALKS
Hmm interesting thread. Recently I have been considering electrician or HVAC ahah, I never thought of these questions you asked.
But the way I see it, my old man is a welder/fitter and he's been at it for the past 25 years, he earns $35/hour. I'm not saying my dad is ballin, but he gets the bills paid and I've never seen him struggle to find a job. He's been with this company since day 1.
Guess it all depends on who you end up working for?
But the way I see it, my old man is a welder/fitter and he's been at it for the past 25 years, he earns $35/hour. I'm not saying my dad is ballin, but he gets the bills paid and I've never seen him struggle to find a job. He's been with this company since day 1.
Guess it all depends on who you end up working for?
This is the difference these day...I don't think these positions are going to be around. CONTRACT HIRING IS THE WAY THE COMPANIES ARE GOING NOW...great for the company...BAD FOR THE GUY TRYING TO START HIS FAMILY AND BUILD A STABLE LIFE
I won't go into the details, but I'll just say I'm the only one who will be able to pull in an income in my house for years, possibly forever. It's on me.
Sacrifices can be made, but you have to have something to sacrifice in the first place. I don't have a car or house to sell and I doubt there are cheaper apartments than what I'm renting. There's no utilities to cut or big expensive hobbies I can give up. I mean, I'm not a monk or anything, but when you see those silly online lists of "You should cut out this wasteful stuff to SAVE MONEYS!!!$$" almost none of it applies to me 'cause I already don't spend much! Toronto is just an expensive town.
See that's where I'm at. To me, time is more valuable than anything. Like crankcall says, there are other things. I've worked my *** off with 14 hour days before, and I don't mind doing so for a good reason, but I find there are a lot more garbage reasons to do that than there are good ones.
I don't have huge financial goals. I don't care about ownership. I mean I would be pretty happy if I could rent the bottom floor of a house with a garage (I badly want home workshop space and a backyard) and afford to really properly save for retirement. That's about it. But in this town, even something as modest as that needs a household income of about $75,000 or more. Nt hard to get there at all if you're pooling two incomes, but if you're flying solo that takes a little more work.
In any case, like Kellen, I'm at that "I don't know" stage. Might be that trades are a really bad idea for me, but they're just one option among several and it doesn't hurt to learn more.
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Well what would you see yourself doing in the future? HVAC, Electrician, plumber, are all great trades and take time but you can take it as far as YOU want. You can work for someone else, or just do your own thing. The money is not in doing the work for someone....it's in being able to sell work to someone and having the work performed by others. Running crews, etc.
or start your own thing on the side. Look at your skills and experience and maybe you can contract that out. Hell I'm looking to see how I can contract out my tech sales, proposal and budget prep, and tunneling experience and do work on the side but I'm stuck for the moment and can't see how...suggestions welcome!
Investment property...great idea except the banks really tightened up lending rules so multi-plex above 3plex need 30% down payment....and they don't make the money back in this city for that type of investment. Before it was 7 plex that was commercial, now it's a 4.
i work on the side with my dad doing little contract jobs. Great gig and I need to figure out how to expand it but a little scared of how will I manage my full time job AND this side gig. Not regular pay, but sure pays well if you know what you're doing and oh our your commitments.
lots of options. Don't rush it but be patient and figure out what you see your life being as.
or start your own thing on the side. Look at your skills and experience and maybe you can contract that out. Hell I'm looking to see how I can contract out my tech sales, proposal and budget prep, and tunneling experience and do work on the side but I'm stuck for the moment and can't see how...suggestions welcome!
Investment property...great idea except the banks really tightened up lending rules so multi-plex above 3plex need 30% down payment....and they don't make the money back in this city for that type of investment. Before it was 7 plex that was commercial, now it's a 4.
i work on the side with my dad doing little contract jobs. Great gig and I need to figure out how to expand it but a little scared of how will I manage my full time job AND this side gig. Not regular pay, but sure pays well if you know what you're doing and oh our your commitments.
lots of options. Don't rush it but be patient and figure out what you see your life being as.
this is what Im talking about..... the guy who painted my whole house was a school teacher by day. the guy who put my inground sprinkler system in, was also a full time teacher by day. My buddy works for Canada Post full time days, and DJs on the weekends and does painting gigs.
Rule 1 if you decide to make side money, moonlighting so to say, charge what the work is worth. People wont mind paying fair money for good work. The folks that have a great protected job with a pension and run a side business are entitled to do so, just charge what the job is worth so Fred the fencer has a shot at the project also.
Ok, I get the message loud and clear. The numbers don't line up today. $24hr. 20yrs. ago in a cheaper part of Ontario you could hatch a plan. In TO today you're toast. Honestly I don't see how another $10hr. would change that appreciably. It would take the edge off but that's it. You'd have to make wholesale changes, relocate + master plan. Because you're posing these questions here I might be safe in assuming that would take you out of your comfort zone. People leave countries for a better life, if it means enough to you, change cities.
Walms
Well-known member
Yeah, Toronto is a tough town but lots more work and better pay than rural Ontario.
Basically what I recommend to my kids is find something that you love to do, learn everything about it, be passionate about your work and you'll make good money eventually. The worst case scenario is you won't make big bucks but you'll still love to go to work Monday morning.
My plan was to move to Toronto, get my experience, then eventually move back to the country and semi retire... Kids slow that process down by a decade or 2! Lol
Basically what I recommend to my kids is find something that you love to do, learn everything about it, be passionate about your work and you'll make good money eventually. The worst case scenario is you won't make big bucks but you'll still love to go to work Monday morning.
My plan was to move to Toronto, get my experience, then eventually move back to the country and semi retire... Kids slow that process down by a decade or 2! Lol
Red_Liner740
Well-known member
I'm not gonna sit here and defend all trades, nor toot my horn of how i'm rolling in it but from my experience, as a trades guy, its easier to find work. Especially if you are younger and willing to learn. If you're in your 20's and stepped away from the herd who thought that a university degree is necessary for a well paying job and are willing to show your enthusiasm, have a head on your shoulder, you WILL have multiple job offers on the table at any one time. Now, does that apply to all trades, No, ofcourse not, nor does that mean that just because you have a pulse and show up for work, champagne and gold will rain upon you.
If you're young, or dont like what you do, sit down and realize what kind of services people NEED and are harder to get into, then start going towards that plan. For instance. Dog grooming is probably the first thing people will stop paying for when things get tight. On the other hand, food production is a very hard thing to offshore. More importantly, cost benefits of food production in large volumes always means more automation.
Now-a-days everything has a damn computer logic, from simple belts to roll up doors. Learn PLC's, learn electronics, learn hydraulics, basically have a good grasp of physics and electrical and its like having your own money printing machine. Large scale operations, these dudes sign off on work performed and parts ordered without blinking, all they wanna know is, "when am i gonna be up and running? I dont care about costs!!!"
Now on the other hand, if you did go to University and got your BA, great, now please, line up 100 deep for that one position that is opening up.
Its simple supply and demand. There is a glut of BA's and BSc for the amount of new job openings. Whats worse is that the type of work most BA's and BScs are going into, they arent going to be alot of retirees to take those jobs over from.
I went to University for IT, I saw the writing on the wall when there were thousands of us, plus colleges all finishing same sort of courses and will be competing on the same market. To make matters worse, all those IT jobs that High School Advisers were pushing us towards got offshored shortly after i finished U.
Are you going to be "rich"? That all depends on your definition. If you are constantly trying to keep up with the Joneses, chances are no matter how much $$$ you bring it, you'll be scraping by. Get into the hole ONCE too much and you will spend years digging yourself out.
To me, being rich, means an above average paying job where you have job security, aka, you are valuable to your company that even if the next recessions happens you arent the first one the chopping block. You know what else i absolutely value and love? Not having to deal with corporate, cubicle working TPS report-ing ********. I will work all day in winter (i dont, but i would), then have to sit through conference calls about Synergy this and value-added that and Team this.
Just wanted to add. I travel all of US and Canada for work and see the job environments across broad spectrum. The old guard is retiring. They have made their $$$ and now want to relax, hand over reigns to a younger generation. There's a vacuum of people to take the reigns over.
How messed up is it that meeting a client for the first time in North Carolina, after 3 days of working on their machines i have a job offer to move down there, take over the maintenance department, all i gotta do is tell them whats it gonna take to start. Thats the 3rd time in 4 years where i was asked to basically name my terms to start working.
If you're young, or dont like what you do, sit down and realize what kind of services people NEED and are harder to get into, then start going towards that plan. For instance. Dog grooming is probably the first thing people will stop paying for when things get tight. On the other hand, food production is a very hard thing to offshore. More importantly, cost benefits of food production in large volumes always means more automation.
Now-a-days everything has a damn computer logic, from simple belts to roll up doors. Learn PLC's, learn electronics, learn hydraulics, basically have a good grasp of physics and electrical and its like having your own money printing machine. Large scale operations, these dudes sign off on work performed and parts ordered without blinking, all they wanna know is, "when am i gonna be up and running? I dont care about costs!!!"
Now on the other hand, if you did go to University and got your BA, great, now please, line up 100 deep for that one position that is opening up.
Its simple supply and demand. There is a glut of BA's and BSc for the amount of new job openings. Whats worse is that the type of work most BA's and BScs are going into, they arent going to be alot of retirees to take those jobs over from.
I went to University for IT, I saw the writing on the wall when there were thousands of us, plus colleges all finishing same sort of courses and will be competing on the same market. To make matters worse, all those IT jobs that High School Advisers were pushing us towards got offshored shortly after i finished U.
Are you going to be "rich"? That all depends on your definition. If you are constantly trying to keep up with the Joneses, chances are no matter how much $$$ you bring it, you'll be scraping by. Get into the hole ONCE too much and you will spend years digging yourself out.
To me, being rich, means an above average paying job where you have job security, aka, you are valuable to your company that even if the next recessions happens you arent the first one the chopping block. You know what else i absolutely value and love? Not having to deal with corporate, cubicle working TPS report-ing ********. I will work all day in winter (i dont, but i would), then have to sit through conference calls about Synergy this and value-added that and Team this.
Just wanted to add. I travel all of US and Canada for work and see the job environments across broad spectrum. The old guard is retiring. They have made their $$$ and now want to relax, hand over reigns to a younger generation. There's a vacuum of people to take the reigns over.
How messed up is it that meeting a client for the first time in North Carolina, after 3 days of working on their machines i have a job offer to move down there, take over the maintenance department, all i gotta do is tell them whats it gonna take to start. Thats the 3rd time in 4 years where i was asked to basically name my terms to start working.
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Working all day, plus nights and weekends....where do I sign up!?!?!?
I work in a trade. 40hrs a week, make a decent income, and I work smart not hard. I have days that require hard work but my body will not be destroyed from it by the time I'm 40. I started when I was 18 and put in the work learning the trade. If $30/hr is the going rate for a fully liscensed tradesmen then it isn't a highly skilled trade. Labourers make that sweeping up job sites.
That's something you do as part of a master plan for a short time. Done correctly it pays dividends. If you're working all that extra just to keep up with the Jonses as mentioned above that's loserville imho. It's pretty sad when work takes time away from hobbies or you're so dull and disinterested in life that you need to money grub to buy "stuff" + "upgrades".
Working the trades is a hard, dirty, and usually thankless job. If you work for 'yourself' you gotta fight for jobs, its feast/famine for real. If you work as a grunt for someone else... well, its just like any other job, except you're at a dirty construction site. There's not really anything appealing about it, but the money is there because the work is there. Southern Ontario has been booming for many many years now, so everyone can have a slice of the pie if they want it.
When you run your own show, the government buries you in taxes and chops your head off with the WSIB premiums and various regulations, it's not fun. In this regard, working with homeowners directly is absolutely the way to go- if you can get that kind of business rolling, eventually word of mouth is the only advertising you need. I know several folks who are very successful doing exactly this. They still get dirty, but at the end of the day they really are their own boss- and when the homeowner pays directly, you don't need WSIB or any other government nonsense. Pay your tax and away you go.
Getting into a trade to work 40hrs and then do side jobs on top of that is suicide to me. I know guys who do it and I just shake my head- that's no way to live life. They know it too, but money talks. They're young and not terribly disgruntled just yet... but they'll get there very soon.
All work is ****, it just depends on your level of tolerance. There's nothing magical about the trades.
When you run your own show, the government buries you in taxes and chops your head off with the WSIB premiums and various regulations, it's not fun. In this regard, working with homeowners directly is absolutely the way to go- if you can get that kind of business rolling, eventually word of mouth is the only advertising you need. I know several folks who are very successful doing exactly this. They still get dirty, but at the end of the day they really are their own boss- and when the homeowner pays directly, you don't need WSIB or any other government nonsense. Pay your tax and away you go.
Getting into a trade to work 40hrs and then do side jobs on top of that is suicide to me. I know guys who do it and I just shake my head- that's no way to live life. They know it too, but money talks. They're young and not terribly disgruntled just yet... but they'll get there very soon.
All work is ****, it just depends on your level of tolerance. There's nothing magical about the trades.
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Yeah, I hear that. I've thought about relocating plenty of times. I used to live in Guelph and liked it quite a bit and I'd be equally alright with the K-W area and such. There are people who move to Alberta of course but I was born in Winnipeg and the money would have to be insane to get me to go back to prairie winters. Vancouver is right out - the one place in the country where it'd be even HARDER to realize my very limited financial goals, though Victoria always sounded real nice.
The main problem with all those places is what Walms said: jobs.
I gripe on this town a lot, and living somewhere smaller would be nice, there are however things I actually like about Toronto (wait, there are things to like about Toronto?!) and one or two things out of my control that tie me to staying in the City of Toronto proper for at least a few more years, so for now I've got to make the best of it here.
I ain't a 20 year old kid anymore, sadly (I'm 35. Not too far gone yet, but to imagine things are as simple as they were when I was straight outta university is silly). On the subject of side work, I have something I do that may start to do in that vein. I didn't think it would pay, but a few more bucks is a few more bucks and I can see where it goes.
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Wow, not all trade work is ******. I enjoy my job, some days are dirty other days they're not. I do a wide variety of things and I'm employed by a massive company. They give me the material I need (eventually) and leave me to do the job. I've been thanked at the end of all my jobs by my supervisor. It's the bitchy public that I hate dealing with.
Bricklayer, electrician, plumber, carpenter etc. they all have their ups and downs.
I know plenty and it's no different if you were in law or business or working on a degree.
You got to network. You got to take pride in the work you do. And good things happen.
I find most that gripe about not being happy, do poor work and work less hours and aren't in high demand and rarely offered better opportunities.
I see talented People work their butt off and go no where because they are waiting for someone to give it to them.
I have no degree.
I work A job that I have no education background in.
I started in a call center casual part time. Within 4 years I was in management.
I've moved on to account management. No marketing or sales back ground.
Just my reputation and speaking up when an opportunity presents itself and saying I'm willing to do it.
I was offered work as a bricklayers assistant for $50 and hour cash in the GTA. Work as many hours as I want.
A good friend of mine is a lawyer. He works for a bank in an unrelated field. No regrets, he just couldnt make it work. But he's got drive and he's sharp. And he's doing better at the bank than he ever could in law.
I know plenty and it's no different if you were in law or business or working on a degree.
You got to network. You got to take pride in the work you do. And good things happen.
I find most that gripe about not being happy, do poor work and work less hours and aren't in high demand and rarely offered better opportunities.
I see talented People work their butt off and go no where because they are waiting for someone to give it to them.
I have no degree.
I work A job that I have no education background in.
I started in a call center casual part time. Within 4 years I was in management.
I've moved on to account management. No marketing or sales back ground.
Just my reputation and speaking up when an opportunity presents itself and saying I'm willing to do it.
I was offered work as a bricklayers assistant for $50 and hour cash in the GTA. Work as many hours as I want.
A good friend of mine is a lawyer. He works for a bank in an unrelated field. No regrets, he just couldnt make it work. But he's got drive and he's sharp. And he's doing better at the bank than he ever could in law.
Yeah I bet you're waking up every morning with a huge smile just dying to go to work gimme a break
I'm simply stating that in response to OP hearing all this "great stuff" about trades should be taken with a grain of salt. It's mostly hard dirty work and you're not wearing a suit and tie for any of it... I'm happy for you that you get thanked, but in the commercial construction industry that's total nonsense.
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No I don't get up and think "there's nothing else I'd rather do today than go to work". However I don't go to bed at night dreading the next day and because of my job I get to do somthing that I've dreamed about since I was a kid while having nice things. If you want to be lazy and do nothing than no a trade isn't for you. If your good with your hands and are intelligent enough to learn new skills it can be very rewarding. I'm sorry that your experience doing "trade work" had been so ****** that you have such a negative view of it.
