And the award for Troll of the Year goes to.... *drum roll*

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awyala said:
How did Assange put anyone in danger? Did assange fly American soldiers into a war zone in another's country? Please clarify how Assange's freedom of expression is an offence?
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If you are asking the question in that frame, there's nothing more I can say. ... I just deleted my explanation because you won't get it. So I leave you with this: Apologies. Assange is awesome, just like Steve Jobs is awesome. Thou shalt not dis awesome.
 
eljay said:
I already answered all those questions... you are losing your capacity for logic. Go to bed. You are emotionally attached to this.

There's a double standard because western politicians/voters are dipshits and they are good at chasing one offs to score political points in the name of helping the children.
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On the contrary. I would argue that "freedom of speech" is not a universal human right, nor is it a wide open cart blanche to say whatever one likes. A blanket application of the notion is niave and constantly harping on an individual's right to offend in the case of this film underlies something much deeper. Again I don't advocate the violent reactions, but brushing off the offence as acceptable is adding to the insult. Claiming that the one off chasing down of insults for poltical points is also naive. Go into work tomorrow and openly slander in an anti-semetic fashion and see how long you last. See if you get fired for one off brownie points.

PS, Ahmedinijad's "wipe off the map" mistranslation is often touted as a reason to GO TO WAR with Iran. Neither did he say that, nor did he say Iran will be the one to do it. Additionally "holocaust denial" is another reason to kill Iranians and go to war. Oh and WMD lies...

you see where I am going, lies, slander, misleading statements are not just insults...they are precursors to action. That's why threats are not tolerated, nor is incitement to violence or hatred. "Freedom of speech" has limits.

From the perspective of many in the Muslim world, the US will utilize lies and slander when it is to their advantage. The reaction is a response to much larger factors, one of which being ANOTHER immanent war and the war drum currently being beaten.

A lot of lies were spread about Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan prior to their wars, along with Sudan, Somalia, etc.

Can you not see that from their perspective, they have Western / US soldiers in countless Muslim countries and currently waging war and preparing for another war? Can you not see that inflamatory issues like the burning of Qurans a couple months ago and pissing on dead Taliban add up?

All one offs I am sure. Can you not see that the other side may not see this as a trend with much more than word slinging at stake?

Did you see that other thread on this forum boasting of vidoes shooting at "Hajis"?

PS a "haji" is a term used for a Muslim who has performed 1 of the pillars of thier faith and gone on a pilgramage to haj in Mecca. I suppose the term Haji is just a minor derogatory insult....soldiers shooting at devout Muslims and watching vidoes of that is just good fun right?

You don't see the connection between insults and actions?
 
eljay said:
If you are asking the question in that frame, there's nothing more I can say. ... I just deleted my explanation because you won't get it. So I leave you with this: Apologies. Assange is awesome, just like Steve Jobs is awesome. Thou shalt not dis awesome.
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Argue, debate, rationalize, learn, seek truth, and grow as a result....but when one insults a certain line has been crossed. One should apologize. Insults though they can be harmless, can also be a prelude to something much more severe. Speech is not so free, this is a myth.

When one recourses to insults civility has been abandoned. Once again I stress, the violent reactions are not to be condoned!

Don't moderators delete insulting comments on this forum? Aren't comments closed on controversial articles on various news sites? Are FB comments now not grounds for criminal charges?
 
a fendi bag and a bad attitude,
thats all i need to put me in a good mood....
 
awyala, you brought up some excellent points with rational logic.
i agree with most of what you said. i find that most people dont look beyond the apparent and dont conduct their own research. hence why they are so easily influenced by propaganda and lies.
the gist is that its not important that some individual made an offensive video but the fact that its not addressed properly.
 
toothpicker said:
awyala, you brought up some excellent points with rational logic.
i agree with most of what you said. i find that most people dont look beyond the apparent and dont conduct their own research. hence why they are so easily influenced by propaganda and lies.
the gist is that its not important that some individual made an offensive video but the fact that its not addressed properly.
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Thank you sir. Just as a dash of added relevence and topical comparason, have a look at the reaction of the recent Blue Jay homophobia scandal:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...r-on-yunel-escobars-eye-black/article4550313/

Imagine if he refuses to remove the comments, and the Blue Jays stand by him defending his, tasteless but, right to wear such an offensive comment on his person? I doubt many on this forum would support it. As I say, just another example of where free speech actually should have self imposed censorship and limits...and if not, some governing body will step in and implement a punishment or correcting measure.

You are right about dealing with the offence rather than the offence itself. The offence can be retracted. An apology can be given. Perhaps it was in ignorance. Perhaps in poor miscalculated taste. Perhaps not and the intention was to create strife, wanton offence, and incite violence. But the comments must be dissavowed, retracted and condemned. The offence almost becomes secondary to the reaction and manner in which the offence is dealt with.

On a side note, the actors handled it well. A shame they were all dooped like that!

PS for the most part the violence that ocurred at the protests was largely between protestors and security forces. The attack at the embassy in Libya was, as they are finding to have been a purposeful coordinated attack using the cover of the protest, and is much more deeply rooted in the Libyan WAR, rival factions, including Al-Qaeda that NATO supported, oddly enough. It is the same game they played in Afghanistan against the Soviets and they played it again in Libya and are playing it again in Syria, via a proxy Qatari supported imported faction into the "Free Syrian Army".

The dirty politics of the region has more to do with the diplomatic murders than the video does. Libya has seen inter faction violence flare up several times since the fall and murder of Ghadafi....it is nothing unexpected nor nothing new.
 
OK OK, I admit, Awyala won me over. Is there a double standard in western society to protect groups like the Jews from slander while Muslim slander is not only frowned upon, but at times encouraged? Sure, I can agree with that. Are Muslims in the right to be upset about this? Sure.

Just to add, I never disagreed that the video is a straight up insult to Islam. In fact, that was my initial point that the video pulls all the stops to insult Muslims in every way possible. The fact that it's so blatant about it is what makes it humorous. It's humorous in a similar way as a racist comic about black people loving watermelon, fried chicken, and grape drank are ......... many of us will laugh at them, and many black people will even laugh at it if they have a strong sense of humour but if you were to frame it, put it in a museum, and call it art than that would be straight up racist and insulting. Because it ISN'T art, it's a crude, distasteful joke. The same with this video. The video is a crude, distasteful joke, and to screen it at an actual theater is to acknowledge it as a legitimate movie.

Does America want to start World War III? Nominate the "film" for an Oscar.
 
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Roasted said:
It's humorous in a similar way as a racist comic about black people loving watermelon, fried chicken, and grape drank are ......... .
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I love those
Damn, my whole life I didn't know I was black :(
 
AGAVE said:
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Islam is one thing, Muslims are another. Muslims are clearly in a dark place at the moment. Just make sure if you kick someone when they are down, they never get up, cause when they do it wont go well for you. Muslims need to seriously work out some issues, and they need a period of isolation to get to grips with some social, political, technological, and theological issues. America had over 250 years to work it out with insane brutality along the way.

Either finish us off and wipe Islam off the map, that we may never return (as the Americans / Spanish / French have done to other cultures) or Muslims will have to be dealt with in thr future!

Recently Muslims have mistreated Kurds, Armenians, Copts, Slavs (under Ottoman rule), and each other. The result? It has come back to bite us in the bum.

So in one instance, if well articulated even AGAVE has a point, but on the other hand....

Knock-Knock-Democracy.jpg



PS, Thanks Roasted, I was at my wits end and one step short of starting a riot on your driveway.
 
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