Amazon ceasing operations in Quebec

Scuba Steve said:
I have been in a union the main thing it did was make sure ambition was kept to a minimum and that the bad workers ran the show. You may be a better employee but bob started first so he gets a raise. Seniority is such bs and keeps decent workers at the bottom.

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Yes, I too love it when the new people who kiss the bosses ass or happen to be a relative get preference to take their vacation on those nice summer weeks while the guys who have worked there for 5 or 10 years get the leftover scraps. Oh, and you gotta work next Saturday AND Sunday, big order, busy busy. But I gave the new guys the weekend off, they had plans, sorry about that. You don't mind I'm sure. We thought you'd like the overtime, plus they had plans, so yeah.

Hey, why are you upset?
 
Gaoler said:
In my experience, managers who "have to deal" with the union are ****** managers.
The best managers are the ones who know the collective agreement and run their show according to it.
All you have to do as a manager is follow the rules, then there's nothing to "deal" with.
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If only it was that simple, when you lose 30 thousand dollar engines cause the guy who done the PMI signed off that they putoil in but didn't. yup follow the agreement
 
PrivatePilot said:
Yes, I too love it when the new people who kiss the bosses ass or happen to be a relative get preference to take their vacation on those nice summer weeks while the guys who have worked there for 5 or 10 years get the leftover scraps. Oh, and you gotta work next Saturday AND Sunday, big order, busy busy. But I gave the new guys the weekend off, they had plans, sorry about that. You don't mind I'm sure. We thought you'd like the overtime, plus they had plans, so yeah.

Hey, why are you upset?
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How does that happen when they have seniority?
 
ToSlow said:
If only it was that simple, when you lose 30 thousand dollar engines cause the guy who done the PMI signed off that they putoil in but didn't. yup follow the agreement
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A friend of mine had a good business putting tire pressure monitors in mining trucks. Whole project got scrapped couldn't keep the union guys from ripping them out. So they just drive on flats and wreck them.

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PrivatePilot said:
If you EVER set foot in an Amazon warehouse or worked there for a day you'd understand why this is such an incredibly ridiculous position to take.

Amazon treats their employees like numbers in every sense of the word. You are a number. Not a person. Your numbers must achieve their productivity numbers, those numbers of which are often insanely unrealistic and don't even allow you to do things like go take a piss without being penalized for idle or unproductive time.

You have no idea. If ANY workplace needs unions, it's shitholes like Amazon.

Heck, even us drivers are treated like animals when we are there. Last week I delivered to one of their warehouses - the person you talk to at the "security kiosk" isn't even in Canada (they had no idea what "Quebec" meant when they asked for my license plate, I **** you not she asked me in a thick southern accent "is that a State?") then you get jammed into a tiny cage (literally) at the man door while they decide to let you in or not (which the computer is the arbiter of), and then the amployees are like automatons, needing to follow "procedures" about how to perform their job, which they need to dictate to us guys about how to perform tasks like opening a door. It's laughable.

Its no wonder their employees feel like they need a union.



I'm constantly amazed by the number of people you can find online that trash unions in one breath, and then you read some of their other threads (ie: Reddit) you find them weeks earlier or weeks later crying or moaning about their pay being ******, they have no benefits so they can't afford medications (or even a doctors visit, USA), they can't get time off, and that their jobs just generally suck ass.

But apparently a lot of people also love stepping on their own ***** to make sure their bosses get another Porche at the end of the year, and that the corporate CEO's can get a second yacht.
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Whenever I didn't like my working conditions, I just got another job at another company. If a company is doing something illegal like making their employees work extra hours unpaid, isn't that what employment lawyers and class action lawsuits are for?
 
Gaoler said:
In my experience, managers who "have to deal" with the union are ****** managers.
The best managers are the ones who know the collective agreement and run their show according to it.
All you have to do as a manager is follow the rules, then there's nothing to "deal" with.
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Following the union rules don't always result in the best outcome for the company or the individual. Company gets lower productivity, individual who could have stepped up and done the job well doesn't get the recognition/reward. I look at companies like sports teams, and employees like the players. Imagine if the players were unionized.
 
Relax said:
Following the union rules don't always result in the best outcome for the company or the individual. Company gets lower productivity, individual who could have stepped up and done the job well doesn't get the recognition/reward. I look at companies like sports teams, and employees like the players. Imagine if the players were unionized.
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Let me clarify - imagine if Gretzky had to sit on the bench after joining the Kings because he was the new guy.
 
Relax said:
Whenever I didn't like my working conditions, I just got another job at another company. If a company is doing something illegal like making their employees work extra hours unpaid, isn't that what employment lawyers and class action lawsuits are for?
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So rather than trying to get a company to adjust possibly illegal working conditions people let them continue doing what they have been doing consequence free?

See, that’s all well and good until there’s no other jobs to move to and then workers have to accept the ****** conditions.

I can see this discussion from both ends. I’ve been a union rep. I’ve been somewhat involved in bargaining and seen grievance files. I also remember what unions did to the UK car industry.

I’ve seen the necessary parts and I’ve seen the negative extremes.

What I said still stands. If you work for a company that stands by the workers you probably will never need a union. If you work for a company that is beholden more to shareholders and/or looks to shave every single cent from their operations in pursuit of that goal, then you probably will need one.
 
jc100 said:
So rather than trying to get a company to adjust possibly illegal working conditions people let them continue doing what they have been doing consequence free?

See, that’s all well and good until there’s no other jobs to move to and then workers have to accept the ****** conditions.

I can see this discussion from both ends. I’ve been a union rep. I’ve been somewhat involved in bargaining and seen grievance files. I also remember what unions did to the UK car industry.

I’ve seen the necessary parts and I’ve seen the negative extremes.

What I said still stands. If you work for a company that stands by the workers you probably will never need a union. If you work for a company that is beholden more to shareholders and/or looks to shave every single cent from their operations in pursuit of that goal, then you probably will need one.
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In todays world, how many corporation's do you think are running illegal working conditions? this ain't the days of Jimmy Hoffa and Al Capone
 
Relax said:
Whenever I didn't like my working conditions, I just got another job at another company
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Sure. Ask the immigrants that work in these places how many jobs there are out there for them. Hint: Jobs aren't exactly a dime a dozen right now for uneducated labourers.

You know that these places are staffed overwhelmingly with immigrants for lots of reasons, right? They complain less because even being treated like an automaton at Amazon is often miles ahead of the third world place they worked at back home, and secondly, they're more likely to just shut up and keep on because they don't want to stick their head up and risk getting fired because being without work for a few weeks, or heck, even days is the difference between being able to make ends meet, or not.

Relax said:
Let me clarify - imagine if Gretzky had to sit on the bench after joining the Kings because he was the new guy.
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Comparing a job to a game played by overpaid multi millionaires purely for the entertainment of the masses is a silly comparison. Let's be real here.

But, to clarify, you're cool with the bosses kid who just got hired through nepotism working a nice cushy 9-5 shift with weekends off while you're stuck working rotating shifts and being told you can't have Saturday off all summer long because it's busy. Cool? And yes, by law, your employer can force you to work 6 days a week here in Ontario. But not the bosses kid, special treatment, and there's jack **** you can do about it.

Now replace "bosses kid" with "new guy the boss really likes because he rides a Harley just like him", or "new guy that took the boss out for beer last Friday after work so now he gets special treatment", or "new guy who bag licks the boss at every opportunity", etc ad infinitum.
 
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ToSlow said:
In todays world, how many corporation's do you think are running illegal working conditions? this ain't the days of Jimmy Hoffa and Al Capone
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Illegal and "fair and decent" are two very different things. See my last reply above. You're kidding yourself if you think favouritism isn't a thing. I've been a victim.
 
PrivatePilot said:
Illegal and "fair and decent" are two very different things. See my last reply above. You're kidding yourself if you think favouritism isn't a thing. I've been a victim.
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Two sides to every coin, have you ever been in a non union role in a company that's unionized?
 
jc100 said:
I've had to make use of union lawyers a few times over the years.

I was told I couldn't work two (non competing) jobs years back when I was on contract and earning way way less than I am now in what was deemed "restraint of trade". The person who made that order had to rescind it and apologize. Without the union I'd have had to suck it up and live off peanuts.

There have been other times too.

Like I say. I see why some people don't like unions but that's up until the point you really need one.





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You didn't need a union lawyer.. 5 minutes on google to learn about common laws regarding non-competes and you'd have been good.
 
ToSlow said:
Two sides to every coin, have you ever been in a non union role in a company that's unionized?
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I’m not denying unions have their problems and that some people abuse the privileges thereof.

You are being disingenuous if you are going to suggest that there are not a lot of non-unionized companies in which management has a lot of problems and abuses their privilege thereof. And one bad boss can make the lives of hundreds or thousands of employees miserable.

Like I said in another reply, there are lots of great employers for whom a union would serve no purpose, which is why they don’t end up unionized. Everybody is happy on both sides because there is mutual respect, fair renumeration, and good working conditions

But there are a lot of now unionized workplaces who ended up that way because things were not so rosy in the past and there was enough frustration around that to make it happen to begin with.
 
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raginduck said:
You didn't need a union lawyer.. 5 minutes on google to learn about common laws regarding non-competes and you'd have been good.
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Please ask a lawyer how things worked out for some of their current or past clients when they based important legal decisions on Google searches.
 
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