Almost had a crash today on the 401. How should I prepare?

[GreyGhost]

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I disagree with getting in the right wheel track. It gives you more time to react, but it also makes you less visible in their side-view mirror making the situation ore likely to happen.
I agree with adjusting your speed however, now that he's become hyper-aware of this possibility. Slower speed means longer commute, but the alternative is a possible end to commuting...forever.

Fair enough. Ime, the person turning out quickly isn't checking well enough for my lane position to matter. They committed to stupidity and oncoming traffic has to avoid the ahole. I'm not going to fault people for using a different approach than me. The ahole is the one that needs a kick in the head, not you nor I.

EDIT:
FWIW, the rider I referenced in my original post was in the right wheel track of the HOV lane. Positioned for visibility, not doing anything crazy, Evo said she was an LC instructor so she was competent and generally aware, all good things but she had no time to react. Car jumped out from almost stopped and I'm not sure she even touched the brakes before she hit.

 

[mimico_polak]

In "Long Way Round", the only traffic accident involving Charley Boorman and specifically Ewan McGregor, involved being hit from behind by a (I think) teenager driving a Honda Civic near Calgary. They survived riding across Europe and Siberia, only to be rear ended in Canada.

Charlie also dropped the bike 2x within the first 5min. But I'm enjoying the book and look forward to more adventures.

 

[Lightcycle]

Ime, the person turning out quickly isn't checking well enough for my lane position to matter.

Yep.

I've had a number of discussions/debates with other riders, students and other instructors about lane positioning safety.

Every MSF course teaches that the "blocking" or "dominant" lane position in the scenario in this thread (exit lane on the right) is left tire track.

The argument for is that if a car is checking their rear-view or side mirror, they clearly see that you are in the lane beside you. There's no room to occupy the lane with a motorcycle in that position. If you're in the right tire track, you may have more reaction time, but in every car mirror, it looks like you are leaving room, and inviting the car to lane-change in front of you. "Is that motorcycle even in the next lane over, or are they riding the shoulder?!?"

Not to mention leaving yourself exposed to being passed in your own lane by the car behind you.

However, this argument for being in the prescribed "blocking" position only works if the car driver is checking their mirrors. If they just proceed without checking, perhaps you are indeed safer being further away in the right tire track.

My personal opinion is that you should play the law of probabilities.

*Most* drivers check their mirrors.

If *most* drivers see you in the "blocking" position, *most* drivers will be deterred from lane changing in front of you.

If *most* drivers see you all the way in the right tire track, acting like a bicycle, they will treat you like a bicycle and cut you off. This is going to happen more frequently than the probability of an inattentive driver that doesn't check their mirror and lane changes regardless of which tire track you're in.

Anyway, this is just my opinion. I know a lot of instructors that teach left-tire track because it's part of the curriculum, but out on the road, ride on the right away from traffic because it's their personal belief that it's safer.

 

[WestBrantKid]

Yep.

I've had a number of discussions/debates with other riders, students and other instructors about lane positioning safety.

Every MSF course teaches that the "blocking" or "dominant" lane position in the scenario in this thread (exit lane on the right) is left tire track.

The argument for is that if a car is checking their rear-view or side mirror, they clearly see that you are in the lane beside you. There's no room to occupy the lane with a motorcycle in that position. If you're in the right tire track, you may have more reaction time, but in every car mirror, it looks like you are leaving room, and inviting the car to lane-change in front of you. "Is that motorcycle even in the next lane over, or are they riding the shoulder?!?"

Not to mention leaving yourself exposed to being passed in your own lane by the car behind you.

However, this argument for being in the prescribed "blocking" position only works if the car driver is checking their mirrors. If they just proceed without checking, perhaps you are indeed safer being further away in the right tire track.

My personal opinion is that you should play the law of probabilities.

*Most* drivers check their mirrors.

If *most* drivers see you in the "blocking" position, *most* drivers will be deterred from lane changing in front of you.

If *most* drivers see you all the way in the right tire track, acting like a bicycle, they will treat you like a bicycle and cut you off. This is going to happen more frequently than the probability of an inattentive driver that doesn't check their mirror and lane changes regardless of which tire track you're in.

Anyway, this is just my opinion. I know a lot of instructors that teach left-tire track because it's part of the curriculum, but out on the road, ride on the right away from traffic because it's their personal belief that it's safer.

I watched a few videos on YouTube over the weekend from multiple creators, all about motorcycles. Repairs, auctions, anti-theft reviews, etc..
I was surprised that at least half the videos that showed riding on the street the riders were in the right tire track. The all appeared to be in the US, but I thought they followed the same basic safety laws that we do in Canada. I was surprised and confused. They were all single lane each direction with the rider hugging the shoulder.

 

[Lightcycle]

I watched a few videos on YouTube over the weekend from multiple creators, all about motorcycles. Repairs, auctions, anti-theft reviews, etc..
I was surprised that at least half the videos that showed riding on the street the riders were in the right tire track. The all appeared to be in the US, but I thought they followed the same basic safety laws that we do in Canada. I was surprised and confused. They were all single lane each direction with the rider hugging the shoulder.

It's one-sided psychology.

As a rider, you may "feel" safer being away from traffic, but the rider fails to put themselves in the car driver's shoes.

From a car driver's standpoint, you see a motorcycle hugging the left-tire track in your mirror and you're going to think twice about cutting them off.

If you see a motorcycle hugging the right tire track, you're gonna think, "Yep, there's room. He's obviously leaving space for me."

 

[hymnz]

*Most* drivers check their mirrors.

The problem is the 1% that don't. They blindside you. They do things you don't expect to happen leading to crashes and collisions. In India, the roads were chaotic. 99% of the drivers/riders don't follow the rules. So as a rider, you're consciously looking everywhere for mishaps. And this reflex was what kind of helped me avert a crash in this situation.

I was very surprised with my first driving instructor during my G2 lessons here when he was insistent on a few things like sticking with the speed limit whenever you can, not slowing down in the corners etc. (And I believe it was partially this that made me stick to the speed limit on the exit ramp, which is not going to happen anymore now). Those are not the things I'm comfortable with. If I'm not aware of the road I'm on, there's no way I'm sticking to the speed limit 100% of the time and in no world am I not going to slow down when turning. I value my life more than the honking I'll hear when I slow down. I had to switch my driving instructor because of this as I felt I was not learning the rules here the safe way.

I may be stretching, but I feel somehow the instructions and the methods you are being thought to pass your G2 and G can be wrong here, esp. for newcomers and making the DL a holy grail of an identification card doesn't help ease the pressure on getting your G2 immediately. There's no "hack" when it comes to learning how to drive or ride. It has to be thought on practicality and safe maneuvering.

 

[Brian P]

I do not lock myself into riding in any single lane position. It varies depending upon what's going on.

I'm seldom in heavy traffic on my bike but when I am, I try to avoid situations of moving much faster than what's in the adjacent lane. If there is a possibility of moving a lane further over, do that. Try to understand the reason for the backed up traffic ... it may lead to your prediction of whether people are likely to go out of that lane. If the back-up is due to a jammed exit then the most likely lane-changes are just as you approach the end of the tailback, and there's another probable situation in the adjacent traffic lane of people stopping in that lane to try to bypass the queue and jam themselves in just before the exit. The people that are in that lane once it's jammed up are probably there because they want to exit ... less likely ... still possible. If the back-up is due to a breakdown or collision then EVERYONE is going to be moving out of that lane, it's only a matter of when and where.

Country roads? Approaching a hill crest, the issue is potential pedestrians or bicyclists on the other side of it ... either in your direction, or the opposing direction and cars crossing the center line to overtake the pedestrians or bicyclists despite approaching the blind crest in the other direction. My normal spot there is the left edge of the right tire track. If there's a pedestrian or bicyclist in my direction then there's enough room for them if they're where they're supposed to be. If there's a car on the wrong side coming the other way then they're probably not over the center line far enough to hit me.

 

[Lightcycle]

I was very surprised with my first driving instructor during my G2 lessons here when he was insistent on a few things like sticking with the speed limit whenever you can, not slowing down in the corners etc.

Candidates for the motorcycle road test can fail for going well below the speed limit (40 or less in a 50 zone). The rationale behind this is that you are frustrating traffic behind you, which leads to unnecessary congestion, road rage, and cars attempting to pass you in your lane, or veering into oncoming traffic to get around you. You are also not demonstrating confident riding abilities, and if you don't enter the highway at the posted limit, you could cause a rear-end collision when you merge.

The expectation on an exit ramp is that you are going to slow down for the traffic light at the end of the ramp. You are not expected to maintain 100 km/h on the exit ramp, especially if there's a line of cars beside you.

 

[FullMotoJacket]

I do not lock myself into riding in any single lane position. It varies depending upon what's going on.

That, and in pretty much every car the rad hoses, reservoir, and all associated fittings are in the right side of the engine bay. Outside of a rock through the left side of the rad, a failure in the system means the fluid is going to get dumped into the right track of the lane. Same thing with oil filter location and to an extent drain plug.

 

[Evoex]

I noticed today on the 404 many riders were in the middle lane, right track. I’d want to be in the right lane for most of the time.

Right tire track is the most visible part of the middle lane. Obviously you need to adapt your blocking as needed, but if you just want to overall visibility, that's where it lies.

 

[Sunday Rider]

Right tire track is the most visible part of the middle lane. Obviously you need to adapt your blocking as needed, but if you just want to overall visibility, that's where it lies.

I find the middle lane the toughest to ride in as you have to shift from right and left track depending on the situation around you. You have left and right lane vehicles to watch. Right lane seems the least stressful and the left lane, the one to get away and hopefully find a pocket.

 

[Evoex]

I find the middle lane the toughest to ride in as you have to shift from right and left track depending on the situation around you. You have left and right lane vehicles to watch. Right lane seems the least stressful and the left lane, the one to get away and hopefully find a pocket.

Sure, it can be a chore. But if it's the only one moving then that's where I'll be!

 

[Lightcycle]

Sure, it can be a chore. But if it's the only one moving then that's where I'll be!

Used to be the fastest lane on the 401 during rush hour(s) was the right-most lane on the Express.

Then everyone figured that out and now it's all chit.

 

[Baggsy]

In "Long Way Round", the only traffic accident involving Charley Boorman and specifically Ewan McGregor, involved being hit from behind by a (I think) teenager driving a Honda Civic near Calgary. They survived riding across Europe and Siberia, only to be rear ended in Canada.

On a bike you're much more likely to do the hitting, than to be hit. But aim for the clear space anyways.

I find the 400 series fine, but slow.
I'd rather have lights, a lower speed limit, and have to stop every once in a while, than hop dozens of kilometres on one foot.

 

[GreyGhost]

Used to be the fastest lane on the 401 during rush hour(s) was the right-most lane on the Express.

Then everyone figured that out and now it's all chit.

Right lane through toronto is still normally the fastest and left the slowest (ime).

 

[Lightcycle]

Right lane through toronto is still normally the fastest and left the slowest (ime).

Okay, I'll take your word for it.

I still visit one or two times a year and every lane seems to be its own separate parking lot these days.

 

[Lightcycle]

On a bike you're much more likely to do the hitting, than to be hit. But aim for the clear space anyways.

I find the 400 series fine, but slow.
I'd rather have lights, a lower speed limit, and have to stop every once in a while, than hop dozens of kilometres on one foot.

Ask me how I know you don't ride a Harley Davidson...

1984 FLXQWJHCEJHWEJH For Sale
120,000 kms
Original rear brake pads in mint condition.

Another ad by the same seller:

Motorcycle boots for sale
2 weeks old.
Soles may need replacing...

 

[hymnz]

Me noting down the conversation in this thread. Thank you. Learning new things is always good.

 

[Baggsy]

Ask me how I know you don't ride a Harley Davidson...

1984 FLXQWJHCEJHWEJH For Sale
120,000 kms
Original rear brake pads in mint condition.

Another ad by the same seller:

Motorcycle boots for sale
2 weeks old.
Soles may need replacing...

I'd get caught on Lakeshore during the EX. every once in a while. A little brutal on the 250, and about the same on the 1100. They were both cruisers. Roll 10 feet stop for a sec, the roll 5 feet, stop, roll 6 feet ...
Fortuitously they were both water coed. The thing about the 1100 was that I could leave it in second gear all the time. Lazy.

Harley riders don't all drag their feet. I've unfortunately seen many sport bike and other riders, dragging, when moving short distances. My friend just got a Harley, but it's in the shop again. He's riding his dull boring Honda now.

 

[OntFF]

Riding on any of the 400 series highways is dreadful. The hyper-awareness required is absolutely exhausting and sucks the joy out of riding. It becomes merely commuting and there are better ways to do that.

I've commuted to work on my bike a handful of times - 105 km, QEW from St. Catharines to Mississauga/Oakville border. It's somewhere between soulless, boring, and terrifying at all times... And that it can go from 130 km/hr to stop and go in a heart-beat makes it a miserable ride.

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