Advice needed – Involved in a collision

[Krime]

It will depend upon the book value of the bike as well as comparable bikes. Ask a dealer for the "black book value" also go on as many websites as you can find and look for bikes with comparable km's as well as the same make and year etc of your bike. Your adjuster will have a figure given to him by a company "appraiser" So it isn't actually the adjuster that sets what they are willing to settle for. If the value of the parts exceed the value of the bike then you will have two options...

1. They write the bike off and cut you a cheque.
2. They offer a "settlement amount", (basically they tell you what they are willing to give you towards the repairs of the bike).

Of course their initial offers will be low balled, you can, (and definitely should), negotiate, and if the figure is still too low you can take it to a form of "mediation" who will try to help both sides reach an amount. If you choose option 2 then you get the cheque, and if it is less than the cost of repairs then you kick in the difference and get the bike fixed.

I am currently in the state where dealership that my bike was towed to after the accident has forwarded the estimate to adjuster, he says, he is waiting for the appraiser.

Good to know thank you. I've forwarded off the estimate to my adjuster along with the service advisor's contact details. I'll definetly be going for the 2nd option. Curious to hear how your situation pans out, good luck. I'll share my experience as well.

I've started documenting Kijiji ads (nothing on Auto Trader), the trouble is the prices are all over the map, and nothing with as high km's as mine. The closest is with 64,000km, but the majority are around 20-35,000km. As my body style only lasted two years (2003-2004), the bike is pretty rare for a GSXR... I can't believe I just used the word rare to describe a GSXR.

 

[Krime]

I went through this nightmare scenario with my insurance after my bike was knocked over on the street by a soccer mom hammering her SUV in reverse.

Primmum said the cost to repair the bike (mostly cosmetic damage but the clutch lever, cable and hydraulic reservoir were damaged as was the shifter) was more than the value of the bike (as determined by their appraiser) and so they wanted to write it off, take the bike and cut me a cheque.

I insisted on keeping the bike and so they cut me a check for the value of the bike minus what they considered it worth for salvage (about $1200, iirc). The bike wasn't branded since the damage was primarily cosmetic.

The problem came in determining the value of the bike. There is not "book value" for used bikes in Canada, unlike for cars. So they low-balled me at $5000. I countered with ads from Kijiji and AutoTrader/BikeTrader listing the bike for $7500. And then we had a stalemate for a few months where I was bounced around different departments and adjusters until I came to one who was outright rude and my calls stopped being returned. I had to get the insurance ombudsperson involved who resolved the stalemate in less than 48 hours but then Primmum demanded that I have the bike completely repaired and safety completed within 2 weeks or they would cancel my insurance (which would go on my insurance record and jack my premiums when applying for replacement insurance).

In the end, I was able to get a 4 week extension (I argued I had to wait for parts after they were ordered) and had the real mechanic work done by Daniel at Heritage Auto, and did the rest of the cosmetic replacement work (just bolting on parts) myself with the help of a friend. I had hoped for a little cash to be left over, but when it was all done, it was pretty much all used up.

The whole process took about 5 months of headaches and phone calls.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Sorry to hear you went through such a nightmare, especially considering you were NOT the at fault party.

 

[slowbird]

Krime, depending on what your injuries are and where you are located I have been seeing a Physio therapist in Oakville who is a genius. He specilizes in Manipulative Physiotherapy, Acupuncture and has a whole list of letters after his name.

Nice dude and he's done wonders for my injuries. If you are interested let me know.

 

[Krime]

Krime, depending on what your injuries are and where you are located I have been seeing a Physio therapist in Oakville who is a genius. He specilizes in Manipulative Physiotherapy, Acupuncture and has a whole list of letters after his name.

Nice dude and he's done wonders for my injuries. If you are interested let me know.

Appreciate it, but I live in Aurora and work downtown. I've signed up and have an assessment with a place downtown that is FSCO certified (at the request of my insurance company). The odd thing is, apparently FSCO makes you pay from your employers group benefits first, before the injury policy has to pay out.

 

[BusaBob]

Appreciate it, but I live in Aurora and work downtown. I've signed up and have an assessment with a place downtown that is FSCO certified (at the request of my insurance company). The odd thing is, apparently FSCO makes you pay from your employers group benefits first, before the injury policy has to pay out.

That's the way it works in Ontario.
Also, any rehab facility that is set up to bill under the automobile insurance system must be registered (e.g. certified) under the FSCO. It means almost nothing in terms of quality of care. It just means that there's an added layer of bureaucracy to safeguard against insurance fraud (i.e. to protect the insurance industry).

Minor Soft Tissue Injuries are treated under the Minor Injury Guideline. The clinic gets paid $215 for the initial assessment, $775 for the first 4 weeks of treatment (regardless of how many times they see you), $500 for the next block of 4 weeks and then $225 for the 3rd block of 4 weeks. Then the clinic gets paid $85 for a discharge report to the insurance company.

They also get to use a "slush fund" of $400 for anything they can justify giving you.

If you still have ongoing issues, the insurance company can approve, at their discretion, an additional $1700 worth of treatment (paid by the visit). Usually, they will want you to be assessed by their own orthopedic surgeon to see how legitimate your injuries are to warrant the extra funding.

Anyone you see should be going over these figures and time lines in detail with you.

Any clinic that has you hooked up to useless electro machines (TENS, IFC, etc.) for most of your treatment sessions, or has you being treated mostly by support staff (not registered, licensed staff) do not have your best interests in mind and you should run from them as far as possible.

 

[BusaBob]

...if the above sounds cynical, it's cause the automobile industry is the biggest legitimate scam going in this country, IMHO.

...and the rehab industry to treat soft tissue injuries following motor vehicle collisions is full of scammers taking advantage of the funding. The insurers for the most part don't really care since they just jack up everyone's rates the following year

 

[H4x0rz]

sounds like it may end up being a 50/50 claim to me.

really depends on the situation.

Now a days I wouldn't be driving / riding into Toronto without some sort of dash cam / helmet cam. The fact of the matter is if you aren't transported to hospital, you will go to the CRC. That gives the other party time to reconsider his honesty and fabricate a story (and witnesses) to screw you out of a few thousand bucks.

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/03/22/toronto-cops-wont-attend-minor-crashes

 

[slowbird]

The fact of the matter is if you aren't transported to hospital, you will go to the CRC. That gives the other party time to reconsider his honesty and fabricate a story (and witnesses) to screw you out of a few thousand bucks.

In my accident this past May the other motorist went from screaming "OMG I DIDN'T SEE HIM!!!" when I was lying on the sidewalk to "We changed lanes at the same time! It's not my fault!" (Which is a complete lie) while I was being taken away in the ambulance.

They don't need time to start lying. People can do it now as easily as they can take a breath. Being transported to hospital doesn't add anything except hours of being in an ER waiting room to your life.

 

[hedo2002]

There is one difference between being transported to hospital and going yourself, that is the police attend the scene if there are injuries which require transport to hospital. This means the drawings of the crash etc are those of the officer as are the observations his/hers. If charges are warranted they are MUCH more likely to be laid, if an officer attends the crash then if it is a report at the CRC. Not that that will assist when it comes to insurers and there FDR's, (meaning that the other driver could be charged with an HTA offence but you could still be assessed 50% fault under the FDR's.

In my accident this past May the other motorist went from screaming "OMG I DIDN'T SEE HIM!!!" when I was lying on the sidewalk to "We changed lanes at the same time! It's not my fault!" (Which is a complete lie) while I was being taken away in the ambulance.

They don't need time to start lying. People can do it now as easily as they can take a breath. Being transported to hospital doesn't add anything except hours of being in an ER waiting room to your life.

 

[slowbird]

Even though I had an officer(s) attend my scene and charge the other motorist I had to wait over a week to get the accident report (had to pick it up myself from a division) and fax it to the insurance co because the officer never gave it to me or mailed it to me or anything. Apparently it was end of shift and she was on vacation afterwards.

 

[H4x0rz]

There is one difference between being transported to hospital and going yourself, that is the police attend the scene if there are injuries which require transport to hospital. This means the drawings of the crash etc are those of the officer as are the observations his/hers. If charges are warranted they are MUCH more likely to be laid, if an officer attends the crash then if it is a report at the CRC. Not that that will assist when it comes to insurers and there FDR's, (meaning that the other driver could be charged with an HTA offence but you could still be assessed 50% fault under the FDR's.

Crc's in Toronto for the most part don't lay charges. Only no insurance, unlicensed drivers or suspended drivers.

if you aren't transported and subsequently go to the crc. There will be no scene to investigate, just one story verses the other. And the initial 'utterances' that one would make to the authorative person would have more time to think and or scheme out of their percentile at fault.

 

[Krime]

That's the way it works in Ontario.
Also, any rehab facility that is set up to bill under the automobile insurance system must be registered (e.g. certified) under the FSCO. It means almost nothing in terms of quality of care. It just means that there's an added layer of bureaucracy to safeguard against insurance fraud (i.e. to protect the insurance industry).

Minor Soft Tissue Injuries are treated under the Minor Injury Guideline. The clinic gets paid $215 for the initial assessment, $775 for the first 4 weeks of treatment (regardless of how many times they see you), $500 for the next block of 4 weeks and then $225 for the 3rd block of 4 weeks. Then the clinic gets paid $85 for a discharge report to the insurance company.

They also get to use a "slush fund" of $400 for anything they can justify giving you.

If you still have ongoing issues, the insurance company can approve, at their discretion, an additional $1700 worth of treatment (paid by the visit). Usually, they will want you to be assessed by their own orthopedic surgeon to see how legitimate your injuries are to warrant the extra funding.

Anyone you see should be going over these figures and time lines in detail with you.

Any clinic that has you hooked up to useless electro machines (TENS, IFC, etc.) for most of your treatment sessions, or has you being treated mostly by support staff (not registered, licensed staff) do not have your best interests in mind and you should run from them as far as possible.

Thanks for this context, I had no idea this is how it works.

I found a good place with high reviews near my work – Finding a FSCO registered clinic is harder than I thought. So far I've had the assessment done, and one session. The biggest areas of focus are my shoulder (inflamed to the point that I'm noticeably lop-sided when looking in the mirror), and my neck/upper back due to the whiplash. Glad I didn't try and tough it out like I was originally intending on doing.

My claims adjuster let me know the cost of repairs exceeds its value so the bike is a total loss. She's referring me on to another department who will be in charge of next steps. I'll see what they offer me knowing that I intend on keeping the bike.

 

[slowbird]

It's amazing how easily they write off bikes.

My VFR750 was only cosmetically damaged, and not even the majority of the fairings, and they wrote it off.

 

[hedo2002]

Yes the other "department" is the appraiser, I spoke of earlier. My bike has been with the appraiser stage for over a week now, (my PD adjuster is one vacation this week).

Glad you didn't tough it out too. Your injuries, (till this point), have turned out to be more serious than originally thought by you, (they could continue to get worst still yet). I now have an injury which has just in the last few months, appeared, despite that collision being two years ago come next week. My BEST advice is to contact a PI lawyer asap. They will get you to see specialist who deal with injuries all day long, they will, (if they feel you have a case), take it on contingency, and they will deal with your AB Adjuster, who will ask EVERY time they call you "how do you feel today" They record you answer and if you say, "fine thanks" then they will "declare" you healed and try to stop any further treatments. I have learned dealing with insurance on injuries is like fighting a s172 charge, it should NEVER be done without a lawyer..lol You have paid good money to insurance, make sure you get the treatments your entitled to, don't think that if you "save" them money they will happy..

Thanks for this context, I had no idea this is how it works.

I found a good place with high reviews near my work – Finding a FSCO registered clinic is harder than I thought. So far I've had the assessment done, and one session. The biggest areas of focus are my shoulder (inflamed to the point that I'm noticeably lop-sided when looking in the mirror), and my neck/upper back due to the whiplash. Glad I didn't try and tough it out like I was originally intending on doing.

My claims adjuster let me know the cost of repairs exceeds its value so the bike is a total loss. She's referring me on to another department who will be in charge of next steps. I'll see what they offer me knowing that I intend on keeping the bike.

 

[slowbird]

PI lawyers are a bust in Ontario if you don't have serious injuries.

...and by serious I mean, something that has basically ruined your life.

Since my accident I have spoken with 2 Personal Injury lawyers as well as a lawyer that specializes in defense against PI lawsuits (who was a friend of a friend) and they all said the same.

 

[PrivatePilot]

It's amazing how easily they write off bikes.

If the repair costs exceed the book value of the vehicle, it's a write off. On many bikes over the 5 year mark that line is very easily crossed, and it's also one of the contributing reasons why Harleys are so expensive to insure. Even a minor thing on one side of the bike (such as a parking lot knock-over) can run into the many thousands of dollars in repairs simply because so much gets damaged, and the parts are very expensive, but when the bike may still have a book value well over 10K even at 10-15 years old, that 15 year old Harley that suffered 9K worth of damage in (again, for example) a parking lot knockover costs insurance companies a lot of money.

 

[Baggsy]

There is one difference between being transported to hospital and going yourself, that is the police attend the scene if there are injuries which require transport to hospital. This means the drawings of the crash etc are those of the officer as are the observations his/hers. If charges are warranted they are MUCH more likely to be laid, if an officer attends the crash then if it is a report at the CRC. Not that that will assist when it comes to insurers and there FDR's, (meaning that the other driver could be charged with an HTA offence but you could still be assessed 50% fault under the FDR's.

Another difference is that while you're being transported, the other driver who may be the only other witness, may be telling their side of the story to the investigator.

If you go down head first, you may wake up with no recall of the incident, to a list of charges, when it was the other person's fault in the first place.

I don't think it happens often, but it does happen.

 

[slowbird]

Another difference is that while you're being transported, the other driver who may be the only other witness, may be telling their side of the story to the investigator.

That's very true.

When I was being carted away in the Ambulance I was worried the driver was gonna start lying and crying her face off to the officers.

 

[Krime]

It's amazing how easily they write off bikes.

My VFR750 was only cosmetically damaged, and not even the majority of the fairings, and they wrote it off.

The appraiser contacted me this morning. The assessment was fair, as he referenced the Kijiji links I'd found on my own. He's estimating its worth to be about $5200 based on a similar ad with slightly less km's.

The thing is, the $5400 repair cost is almost the same, so he mentioned it's looking like a full repair is possible if it's about $400 less. He's asked me to get another quote to compare before moving forward. I guess I'm stuck with SON, since I can't think of any other Suzuki shops in the general area.

Here's the thing. Apparently if they replace the bike, they'll be charging approx. $700 for me to buy it back (which is an option as the bike only sustained cosmetic and not structural damage). If I can get its worth minus approx. $700, I'd be more than happy with that. I can then replace the parts I really need and leave the rest, or get them done gradually over the winter, etc. Apparently I'd need to submit the receipts for the parts I had fixed to my insurance company, so they can document it in the event of another accident – any parts not documented as being fixed, would not be covered in the event of another accident (which makes sense). Hopefully I'd have a bit left over to fix any other related issues that may arise in the future (I've since had the bike shut down a few times at very low speed when the clutch was pulled in – I'm thinking a wire may have gotten pinched).

My question is this. Although I've let the appraiser know I'll get another quote, can I request for the write-off + buy back and skip the additional quote? I'm hesitant to take it into SON and have them quote less, and then have no choice but to have them work on the bike – something I'd like to avoid with that dealer especially.

 

[BusaBob]

dealer likely won't quote for less.

I'd buy it back and do the repairs yourself, especially if the damage is all cosmetic. You can do that with a screwdriver yourself.