60hz vs. 120hz

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One of the reasons I prefer Panasonic:
Guy calls on Monday about his 6 month old 54" Plasma not turning on, 4 blinks(error code). We refer him to Panasonic's support hotline.
Guy calls the Support line on Tuesday. They schedule a repairman for Wednesday.
We go out on Wednesday morning, take TV off the wall. 4 Hours later we put it back on the wall, fixed, free of charge.
That is service.

They have VERY few defective sets and when they do, their service is top notch.
 
N3WMAN said:
One of the reasons I prefer Panasonic:
Guy calls on Monday about his 6 month old 54" Plasma not turning on, 4 blinks(error code). We refer him to Panasonic's support hotline.
Guy calls the Support line on Tuesday. They schedule a repairman for Wednesday.
We go out on Wednesday morning, take TV off the wall. 4 Hours later we put it back on the wall, fixed, free of charge.
That is service.

They have VERY few defective sets and when they do, their service is top notch.
Click to expand...

Very few defective sets? Except for all those plasmas with black level problems

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10447329-1.html
 
Sony is the only way to go! Pretty much stole a KBLEX620 46 inch from BestBuy with the thetrade in for $849. It was supposed to be 1249-200 trade in for 1049 but they had it already on instore sale for 1049 and still applied the 200$ trade in.
 
When Apple releases a TV, i will let you know what's up.

Awesomeness awaits.....

I am chillin with Sony right now.
XBR9
 
FiReSTaRT said:
120 is divisible by 24 (movies) and by 30 (tv). That's why it's so hot and that's why anything above is just a marketing gimmick. As for the specifics... Look into getting a Vizio. They are locally assembled, so some manufacturing money is left in our regional economy, excellent quality and cheaper than the Korean stuff. The Mrs. and I picked up a 55" LED Vizio (LED is really LCD, but the difference is in the backlight... LCD uses compact fluorescents like a normal energy-saving light bulb and LED uses LED's which use even less energy, allow for a thinner profile, less weight and depending on the LED-array, you can get much deeper blacks from it) and we've been very happy with it. It sees quite a bit of daily use. We picked ours up at Costco (they've got a very good selection, sms me if you don't have a card) and TigerDirect has a few in their selection, mostly smaller models.
Click to expand...

Was in a Costco today and couldn't see a Vizio at all. Are they gone? Or only in Toronto?
 
Baggsy said:
Was in a Costco today and couldn't see a Vizio at all. Are they gone? Or only in Toronto?
Click to expand...

No idea.. I can peek into the one where I picked up my TV next time I go on a beer run (brewery near by) and let you know. Will be before the weekend, for sure :cool:
 
Just wanted to weigh in here since I didn't see anybody mention it, in case you're still shopping...

60 Hz vs 120 Hz (on LCD TVs) these days does NOT refer to the refresh rate!!! Well it does, but not JUST the refresh rate. What 120 Hz and 240 Hz actually refers to with LCDs now is the frame rate.

This means your TV receives 30 frames/sec--60 interlaced fields/sec--and converts it to what the advertised frame rate is, e.g. 120 Hz. So your LCD panel is refreshing at 120 Hz, but each refresh contains a NEW image; so you get 120 fps.

This is called Motion Estimation / Motion Compensation frame rate conversion. The image processor in these TVs actually CREATES the in-between-frames using fancy algorithms. This is why "movies don't look like movies". It makes all the motion look "smoother". However, when the motion on your screen is too complex or too fast, it can cause image artifacts to appear and can distort the video (briefly).

Different manufacturers label this technology differently. For example, Sony calls it MotionFlow; LG calls it TruMotion; etc. The technology is similar in each manufacturer, but some may work better than others.

Anyways, most people dislike the effect this has on movies. Movies are filmed in 24 fps, and looks too different when up-converted; it loses the "cinema" effect. However, sports are great. Most TVs should have the option to turn off this feature, though.

Also, you can't compare LCD and LED. They are referring to different things. But that's another discussion I can go into if you're interested.
 
daveyflakes said:
Also, you can't compare LCD and LED. They are referring to different things. But that's another discussion I can go into if you're interested.
Click to expand...

Theres no such thing as LED TVs for home viewing. So called LED TVs are LCD screen with LED as the light behind the LCD panel.

So yes you can compare "LED" TVs with LCD TVs since they are both LCD TVs.
 
I always understood all LCD tv's were with a fluorescent backlight, but then LED backlights tv's were introduced.

Thought LED used less energy, and provided better blacks then conventional LCD tv.

I also dabble in the TV install business, and always push the Sony product. The picture quality is stunning.


Any other advantages to LED that we should be aware of?
 
N3WMAN said:
One of the reasons I prefer Panasonic:
Guy calls on Monday about his 6 month old 54" Plasma not turning on, 4 blinks(error code). We refer him to Panasonic's support hotline.
Guy calls the Support line on Tuesday. They schedule a repairman for Wednesday.
We go out on Wednesday morning, take TV off the wall. 4 Hours later we put it back on the wall, fixed, free of charge.
That is service.

They have VERY few defective sets and when they do, their service is top notch.
Click to expand...

Have to agree here.

We've installed several panasonic and Sony tv's over the years. Those are the only brands I prefer, and encourage people to buy, although I push the Sony more.

Never had a single Sony go back for servicing. Only had 1 Panny plasma go wonky. Panny sent a tech 2 times to replace a "salted" panel. By the 3rd time of trouble, Panny simply replaced the whole tv at no cost. No questions asked. Customer has been happy every since.

I tell people you only buy a big screen TV, what, maybe once every 10-15 years?

Might as well buy the best.
 
a little hate for Sony, but just a little, cause i like the products, and will continue buying them regardless.

I bought a sony 46XBR9 LCD tv(jan 2010, $2500, bestbuy), chose this LCD over LED at the time, because of the many advanced features in the Sony, and the LED screen is shiny(reflective).
Now around march 2011, the tv would shut off and on by itself, until i shut off myself,... didn't think anything about it until it happened again, so i did a google search, and some said to take out the ethernet jack, but it still happened......i checked to see if any updates were available, but none.
After a couple days again, same thing, freaked out....because the 1 yr warranty is up.....Not sure if a google search or my own brain suggested this idea, but i got a fan and placed it to cool the screen down, and guess what.....that worked for sure, so i have a fan setup behind the tv just incase...seems to happen after about minimum 3hrs, sometimes 5hrs, but it takes a bit......a 3-5 mins of fan will cool it down back.

So it seems that some internal heat plate is not doing its job inside there(or just need a re-apply of thermal compound aka thermal grease), and would require a service, in which i didn't even call sony yet for a price or see if they would just fix it for nothing.

problem #2
Sony PS3 died YLOD(yellow light of death), bought it 2007, died 2011 july, launch ps3.
google the issue, problem is...after some-time, a lot of dust buildup kinda clogs the ventilation, and would cause overheating, in which could cause soldering to loosen on the motherboard, and would require a reflow to fix, a reflow usually heats up solder and spread them back into place(by using a heat gun), and there is 2 plates that require re-apply of thermal grease to keep the board cool. I fixed it myself(whoa, a lot), it worked for 5 mins and died again, but i used a hairdryer to reflow the board, instead of using the recommended heat gun. I plan to fix again with a heat gun this time...but currently using a new ps3.
reason i fully expained, blow the dust out of your ps3 before this happens to you...i took mine to canadian tire and borrowed an air hose from a tech, and the dust that came out of this thing was unbelievable(a lot).

bought my mom a Sony-bravia-55-1080p-120hz-led-hdtv-kdl55ex621....june 2011, awesomeness.
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/prod...spx?path=7ef4cc18963af9f119a47b51728a50aeen02
 
SunnY S said:
Thought LED used less energy, and provided better blacks then conventional LCD tv....
...Any other advantages to LED that we should be aware of?
Click to expand...

The "deeper blacks" part is tied into a major advantage of LED over CFL.. LED's are more responsive and also because there are many individual lights instead of one (or a few) element(s), they react quicker and you can have more fine-grained control over them. That is if you're dealing with a full LED screen. Because of their smaller size, you can also have a thinner, lighter TV (especially when it comes to edge-lit screens), which is easier to transport, mount and you have less of a risk of it falling.
 
C-Note said:
I actually prefer the lower refresh rate. Movies still look like movies, not like being on set. Yes there are certain exceptions (movies with a ton of cgi) but for the most part I don't want it to look ultra real, I want my movies to look like movies, not a cheap production (like you get with high hz because it's uber clear). Just my $.02
Click to expand...

i noticed that too. thought my eyes were playing tricks on me.

TRON Legacy looks pretty cool on my older HDTV , but looks really "fake" on my friend's new 120Hz LCD set
 
daveyflakes said:
Just wanted to weigh in here since I didn't see anybody mention it, in case you're still shopping...

60 Hz vs 120 Hz (on LCD TVs) these days does NOT refer to the refresh rate!!! Well it does, but not JUST the refresh rate. What 120 Hz and 240 Hz actually refers to with LCDs now is the frame rate.

This means your TV receives 30 frames/sec--60 interlaced fields/sec--and converts it to what the advertised frame rate is, e.g. 120 Hz. So your LCD panel is refreshing at 120 Hz, but each refresh contains a NEW image; so you get 120 fps.

This is called Motion Estimation / Motion Compensation frame rate conversion. The image processor in these TVs actually CREATES the in-between-frames using fancy algorithms. This is why "movies don't look like movies". It makes all the motion look "smoother". However, when the motion on your screen is too complex or too fast, it can cause image artifacts to appear and can distort the video (briefly).

Different manufacturers label this technology differently. For example, Sony calls it MotionFlow; LG calls it TruMotion; etc. The technology is similar in each manufacturer, but some may work better than others.

Anyways, most people dislike the effect this has on movies. Movies are filmed in 24 fps, and looks too different when up-converted; it loses the "cinema" effect. However, sports are great. Most TVs should have the option to turn off this feature, though.

Also, you can't compare LCD and LED. They are referring to different things. But that's another discussion I can go into if you're interested.
Click to expand...
Somebody said in the beginning your TV can have several types of video inputs. You can have 30p, 60i or 24p for real HD (like BluRay). Normal TVs that refresh the screen at a 60Hz interval have no problem reproducing the feed at 30 frames per second because they just display same frame for 2 refresh cycles. With 60i the TV de-interlaces the two fields into a frame and displays it for essentially 2 refresh cycles. Now the problem is when the feed comes in at 24 frames per second. In order to compensate for that the TV used to use something called 2:3 pulldown. In a nutshell this displays one frame for 2 refresh cycles and next frame for 3 refresh cycles. This sometimes causes "judder" in fast action sequences. Having a TV that can do 120Hz refresh is supposed to solve that problem. with 24 frames per second it goes into 120Hz evenly so a new frame is displayed every 5 refresh cycles.

However, LCD screens do not refresh instantaneously. There is always a delay to refresh the entire screen. To compensate for that newer TVs turn backlight on and off in order to hide the transition and only show the frames once the transition is complete.
 
Poser said:
a little hate for Sony, but just a little, cause i like the products, and will continue buying them regardless.

I bought a sony 46XBR9 LCD tv(jan 2010, $2500, bestbuy), chose this LCD over LED at the time, because of the many advanced features in the Sony, and the LED screen is shiny(reflective).
Now around march 2011, the tv would shut off and on by itself, until i shut off myself,... didn't think anything about it until it happened again, so i did a google search, and some said to take out the ethernet jack, but it still happened......i checked to see if any updates were available, but none.
After a couple days again, same thing, freaked out....because the 1 yr warranty is up.....Not sure if a google search or my own brain suggested this idea, but i got a fan and placed it to cool the screen down, and guess what.....that worked for sure, so i have a fan setup behind the tv just incase...seems to happen after about minimum 3hrs, sometimes 5hrs, but it takes a bit......a 3-5 mins of fan will cool it down back.

So it seems that some internal heat plate is not doing its job inside there(or just need a re-apply of thermal compound aka thermal grease), and would require a service, in which i didn't even call sony yet for a price or see if they would just fix it for nothing.

problem #2
Sony PS3 died YLOD(yellow light of death), bought it 2007, died 2011 july, launch ps3.
google the issue, problem is...after some-time, a lot of dust buildup kinda clogs the ventilation, and would cause overheating, in which could cause soldering to loosen on the motherboard, and would require a reflow to fix, a reflow usually heats up solder and spread them back into place(by using a heat gun), and there is 2 plates that require re-apply of thermal grease to keep the board cool. I fixed it myself(whoa, a lot), it worked for 5 mins and died again, but i used a hairdryer to reflow the board, instead of using the recommended heat gun. I plan to fix again with a heat gun this time...but currently using a new ps3.
reason i fully expained, blow the dust out of your ps3 before this happens to you...i took mine to canadian tire and borrowed an air hose from a tech, and the dust that came out of this thing was unbelievable(a lot).

bought my mom a Sony-bravia-55-1080p-120hz-led-hdtv-kdl55ex621....june 2011, awesomeness.
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/prod...spx?path=7ef4cc18963af9f119a47b51728a50aeen02
Click to expand...

Has Sony turned it around? My uncle had a Sony that was in the shop every 3-6 months, he hated it, but it was a gift from his son who worked there.

We had a Sharp Aquos on the wall at the old house from Bay Bloor Radio that we liked. I don't think they deliver this far.

Is there anything new that's really worth while, or is it so wide open that you need to look at a bunch of TV's and pick one that looks o.k. to you?
 
Splash said:
Theres no such thing as LED TVs for home viewing. So called LED TVs are LCD screen with LED as the light behind the LCD panel.

So yes you can compare "LED" TVs with LCD TVs since they are both LCD TVs.
Click to expand...

Yes, like I said, they refer to different things. What I meant was you can't compare LCD vs. LED in the same way you would compare LCD vs. plasma. LCD and plasma refer to the mechanism by which the image (pixels) is displayed, while LED refers to the back-light in a LCD TV.

So you what you first need to decide is what type of display you want: LCD vs. Plasma vs. OLED. If you choose LCD, then you can decide between traditional (CFL) or LED back-lighting.

FiReSTaRT said:
The "deeper blacks" part is tied into a major advantage of LED over CFL.. LED's are more responsive and also because there are many individual lights instead of one (or a few) element(s), they react quicker and you can have more fine-grained control over them.
Click to expand...

This is true, but only partially. Not all LED back-lit displays produce "deeper" blacks. Only the LED TVs with local dimming will produce deeper blacks; but you can expect to pay more $ for this feature. In a cheaper (intro-level) LED TV without local dimming, all of the individual lights are either "all on" or "all of". With the local dimming feature, the panel will be able to control the LED array and turn off an individual light or a region of the array.
 
Folks, I have it on good authority your going to see a dramatic drop in pricing for TV by next month. The manufactures used to try and dump all shipments with retailers timed for Christmas. However, the competition is ramping up earlier and they want to show a better sales quarter and the best way is to start earlier. Word is October.

Panny is the brand for plasma. Samsumg maintains all 3 techs. plasma, lcd, led. Sony was the name back in the day when they presented a TV that was a piece of art. They could command a premium price and their customers where having having a "lexus" of a TV, That's not the case today. Sony's products do have not have any advantage over the others. Shop at a place that does specialise in TVs. Future Shop doesn't care what products get returned. The move what's in stock, pure and simple and upsell the warrenty to cover their ***. Some other places to care about service calls and amouont of returns so, they will steer you towards products that have a good rep.

My LCD 55" Toby does just fine job with PS3, blue rays and HDTV/Sports but, they are middle of the road. Also have a 46" toby rear projector that continues to do a good job for the kids game consol, movies and tv.
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