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Banned
What does that mean?
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60 day wait makes no sense (when taking an M1 course)
- Thread starter mstram
- Start date
What does that mean?
Turbonutt
Well-known member
I think it makes sense for new drivers. It seems a bit of a joke to me that you can write a test then get on a bike and into traffic with zero experience. Where I think it's wrong is for someone in a situation like myself where I have been driving for 20+ years before I got a bike.
conundrum
Well-known member
CSCC -- Canadian Super Car Club. Essentially a bunch of 18-20 somethings with Ferraris, Maseratis, Lamborghinis, and McLarens that are likely bought with money from mommy and daddy.
I can't find the video with a quick search, but there was one posted not too long ago where they got tired of waiting at a restaurant so they all decided to go rev their cars to the limiters in the parking lot. Guess they didn't have enough money to just buy the restaurant too and kick all the people out.
bigpoppa
Well-known member
As a new rider who got his M2 this summer after taking the safety course.....NO it makes no sense whatsoever
The idea behind the 60 days was you got your M1, now go practice on a bike, then go take your test and get M2(At course or via MTO)
However this is completely impractical because NO ONE is gonna insure an M1 rider, you'd be lucky to find 1 person out of 100 who are willing if you call around and the rates will be astronomical.
When it comes to motorcycles in Ontario....Insurance is G.O.D, everything else is secondary
The idea behind the 60 days was you got your M1, now go practice on a bike, then go take your test and get M2(At course or via MTO)
However this is completely impractical because NO ONE is gonna insure an M1 rider, you'd be lucky to find 1 person out of 100 who are willing if you call around and the rates will be astronomical.
When it comes to motorcycles in Ontario....Insurance is G.O.D, everything else is secondary
Vaughan All Stars
http://www.carscoops.com/2016/05/canadian-sports-car-owners-who-allege.html?m=1
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That was North Face, not cscc if i remember well
And to be specific the server just had a .... "non-customer servicey way" of treating them by telling them "you're lucky we can seat a group of you guys" and then major overreaction ensued.
My friend was actually there (he's not rich like them but he hangs out with them) and he says he cant comment on how they reacted to it but what was said by the server and the way the server said it was fully transpiring how most servers feel when there's a group that comes in impromptu. I've been a server myself and that's usually the kind of stuff you say in your head, not out loud.
So server didnt do their job properly and car owners overracted a lot. Nobody was hurt. That is all.
Now back to the 60 days thread
Not quite true... State Farm insured me with my M1 as well as many others. The rate was reasonable (for a SS in Ontario anyway) and it did not drop by much--if at all--when I got my M2. I was over 25 at the time with a reasonably clean record. State Farm Canada is now owned by Desjardins so things might be different as they're pretty much telling SS owners to screw off but point stands. It makes no sense to waive the waiting period because newbies are impatient to get on the highway.
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Banned
pay to play or take the TTC
Squeegeekid
Member
I must be one of the few that used my M1. Had a 25 year old Honda before I even wrote the test. Insurance was cheap. Putting around suburban roads for a few weeks helped me out alot.
I think the restrictions for an M1 are pretty small. Dont they have cc limits for new riders in Europe? I'd get behind that for sure.
I think the restrictions for an M1 are pretty small. Dont they have cc limits for new riders in Europe? I'd get behind that for sure.
EaZ8
Well-known member
yes and no...but i was also in a different situation at the time.
i got my M1 then M2 back in 2006, expired because of no bike to take the test and really didnt want to pay the insurance rates so let it slide. then found out SF had reasonable rates and a couple other companies would be good for cruisers.
got my M1 again, bought a harley sportster and was on the road again.
then went and got my M2 after the 60 days.
i also have a buddy who Bought a harley sportster then got his very first M1 and had insurance right away, then went and got his M2...his just expired and found out while he was trying to book his M test so hes back down to M1.
his rates have always been about 800 ish a year + or - a little. my sportster was 527 a year.
so yes, there are companies that will cover M1 riders, and not always at insane rates but age, location and driving records are huge factors as well as telling them yes im going to get my M2 as soon as they allow me to...its booked for XXX date.
for G1 to G2 you have to have a 12 month waiting period...so ya i agree with the 60 day wait. maybe 30 day if you take the course and pass. but really if you just got get your M1 early say in april then you are good to go as soon as you pass your M2 test and get your insurance..basically plan ahead.
conundrum
Well-known member
Maybe times have changed, but when I did all this 4-5 years ago, TD MM had no issues insuring me with M1 (and M2 rates), just with a stipulation that I had to take a course, and my insurance would be cancelled if I failed the M2 test/did not get my M2 in 90 days.
Not sure why others have such an issue doing the same, but if I were to hazard a guess, it would be due to history with the insurance company and what bike they are trying to insure with a M1. In my case, I was 29, attempting to insure a CBR250RA, and had been with TD MM on car and condo for at least 5 years, so I wasn't exactly an unknown. If I were 21 and trying to insure a CBR1000RR on a M1, then their story might have been different.
One upon a time, a motorcycle learner's permit in Ontario required you to have a fully-licensed motorcycle rider riding with you. If you didn't know anyone or they weren't available to ride with you, tough luck for you.
Today's version of a motorcycle learner permit (M1) time length and restrictions are minimal. Anyone crying about them should be embarrassed.
Today's version of a motorcycle learner permit (M1) time length and restrictions are minimal. Anyone crying about them should be embarrassed.
48Connor
Well-known member
I was insured on my M1, for the exact same price as my M2. If you do an M1X course, most places are happy to insure under an M1, because they know you are going to get your M2.
No company wants to insure you 6 minutes after you passed a written test though.
Malks
Well-known member
I don't recall this being the case when I got my bike licence in 1972. Maybe it was because I also did not know a licensed rider so it never came into play. I don't even recall if there was a learner's permit for motorcycles. The only thing that stands out for me is that you were allowed to ride on the street to get to the testing centre on the day of your road test; however, if you failed you could not legally ride home. There was really no way to get any real riding experience other than on your own private property.
So the current licensing system, while not perfect is considerably better than it was when I began riding. At least the M1 allows you to ride on the street and gain real experience. As noted by others if you schedule it properly you can avoid the delay and have your M2 right when you need it.
Late 70's, so you won't find anything on the internet and I no longer have the rule book, but I recall things changing a few times back then regarding what a learner's permit would allow you to do or not.
As Malks mentioned, you could ride to the testing center the day of your road test, but not ride back home if you failed your road test. Nobody really took the "must have company" requirement seriously.
The initial test started in the parking lot on the southeast corner of Kennedy and Queen in Brampton.
- You walked your bike through a serpentine cone run.
- Then you ran your bike under power through that serpentine cone run.
- Finally a braking test where you approached a marked line at some speed but could not hit the brakes until the tester yelled "stop", at which point your could hit the brakes and hopefully stop on a marked line.
If you managed to pass that part of the test, then came the much harder road test. They gave you the route instructions orally and told you to not deviate at all from them. You had to:
- Turn out from that parking lot onto Kennedy headed north, make a quick cut across traffic to get into the left lane for the traffic lights at Queen and Kennedy.
- Make a left turn onto Queen to go west.
- Once on Queen, take the first right past the Thunderbird Hotel and head north one block to the next corner.
- Turn right to head back east towards the stop sign at Kennedy.
- At the stop sign turn right onto Kennedy and head south towards the traffic lights at Queen, and be in the left lane by the time you get there.
- At the Queen and Kennedy traffic lights, turn left to head east on Queen.
- Make a quick cut across to the right lane and turn right into the parking lot.
Nobody followed you. The tester stood on the southeast corner of Kennedy and Queen to watch you do this. One or two of them had binoculars. A number of people managed to fail that test.
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I've gotta doubt that.
I can't see the MTO thinking that having a passenger while learning was EVER required. Prove me wrong though.
I learned via bf screaming instructions as a passenger on a GSXR 750 in the late 80s. Not the safest way to learn for sure.
The MTO requirements at that time had no such stipulations on having a passenger as a learner. So from 1972 to 1989 when I got my license....
I can't see the MTO thinking that having a passenger while learning was EVER required. Prove me wrong though.
I learned via bf screaming instructions as a passenger on a GSXR 750 in the late 80s. Not the safest way to learn for sure.
The MTO requirements at that time had no such stipulations on having a passenger as a learner. So from 1972 to 1989 when I got my license....
You're reading it wrong. By "accompanied", it meant that you had to have another rider on another motorcycle riding with you, within one block of you. The "one block" requirement I specifically remember.
Judging from the timeline between Malks (1972, no riding at all except to test center) and Iceman (1988, 5 minute written test then ride until roadtest), and from mine in the late 70s and my recollection of with things changing, the "accompanied by other rider" requirement was probably just an intermediate transition between one extreme (Malk) and the other (Iceman).
@Iceman did you get your motorcycle license the day you turned 16?? Much different when your dad rides I guess. But I did get my g within a month of my 16th bday.
@meme your former bf and my dad had the same method of teaching. But my dad was in the passenger seat of the Chevette.
@griff2 I know that route. I only moved to Brampton in the late 80's, but still crazy how much it's changed from then. Iirc that route takes you right by Orr Brothers....Curious to why they wouldn't send you to John Rhodes testing centre back then...
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@meme your former bf and my dad had the same method of teaching. But my dad was in the passenger seat of the Chevette.
@griff2 I know that route. I only moved to Brampton in the late 80's, but still crazy how much it's changed from then. Iirc that route takes you right by Orr Brothers....Curious to why they wouldn't send you to John Rhodes testing centre back then...
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