60 day wait makes no sense (when taking an M1 course)

[mstram]

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Agree or not ?

Like many other things the 'govmt decides for us, the 60 day wait before "transforming an M1 -> M2" makes no sense, if you've taken & passed an M1 exit course (passed the M1->M2 test).

Especially when your insurance company is willing to give you an "M2 rate" for a passed course.

After waiting 60 days, you suddenly now know how to ride at night ? (having never legally done so)

Arguably, with no night riding experience from the course, you are not any better equipped for night riding.

Do the course's cover night riding in the "ground school" / classroom ?

If not, maybe they should, and maybe the first day should start later, so as to include some practical night riding. Even a few hours would be better than the zero hours required when an M1 "automagically" converts to an M2

 

[AF4iK]

The 60 day period is the minimum amount of time you must wait between obtaining your M1 and getting your M2. IMO, this makes sense. Let the rider get used to riding for a while before allowing them greater freedom.

Rider training courses are not mandatory but they're allowed to administer the M1 exit test. A lot of people get their M1 right before they take the M1 Exit "MSF" course which means that even if they pass they will have to wait out the majority of the 60 day period. But nowhere does it say you must go about it this way.

For this reason, I voted yes. Not because the waiting period has anything to do with rider training courses but because the 60 day wait makes sense overall.

 

[mstram]

The 60 day period is the minimum amount of time you must wait between obtaining your M1 and getting your M2. IMO, this makes sense. Let the rider get used to riding for a while before allowing them greater freedom.

Rider training courses are not mandatory but they're allowed to administer the M1 exit test. A lot of people get their M1 right before they take the M1 Exit "MSF" course which means that even if they pass they will have to wait out the majority of the 60 day period. But nowhere does it say you must go about it this way.

For this reason, I voted yes. Not because the waiting period has anything to do with rider training courses but because the 60 day wait makes sense overall.

It only makes sense overall if you can afford the (4x ?) higher insurance (if you can get insurance at all) for an M1, and actually ride for the 60 days.

Being allowed to ride immediately on public streets with only an M1, (no training course) is another question in itself.

 

[shanekingsley]

What makes more sense is to read up on how the system works and then getting the m1 license well before being booked for the course, so that after passing the course, there is a minimum waiting period to get the M2. And how could a course offer practical night riding instruction when you are not allowed to ride at night based on the permit's restrictions? That makes no sense - they might as well include a practical section on riding on highways and riding with passengers.

 

[FLSTC]

Back in the day, there was no minimum wait period. This 60 days wait is part of the graduated licensing program which includes G class. I voted yes, makes sense.

You don't magically get night-riding and passenger skills at the end of 60 days, but if you were riding around, your base experience (clutch use, shifting gears, steering, cornering, lane position, etc) would be improved so that night riding and/or carrying a passenger would be less of a challenge.

 

[Plant_W]

Yes, what the government tried to do makes sense. There are steps to learning. Short circuiting the path is a dangerous recipe. Not for everyone obviously, some have dirt bike experience etc., but for the population in general more time to focus on basic skills is a good idea. The problem as I see it, is that the insurance companies have made it impractical to practice ones skills during this time by charging way too much (or not insuring at all in many cases) to insure a M1 rider who already has a very restricted license. I know I bought a bike and parked it until I got my M2. I did not benefit from practicing. It was much cheaper to take the parking lot course first, then get insured with the full M2. What the government tried to do makes a whole lot of sense, but it has been derailed by the insurance companies.

 

[nakkers]

I believe the M1 expires in 90 days? So, you are expected to get your M1, wait 60 days minimum but, not exceed 90 days? I think the M1 should be for a year, keep the 60 days before getting M2.

Doesn't matter to me but, my kids will be getting their licence soon enough.

 

[LePhillou]

I think they make it 90 days so at least SOME of the theory is still fresh in your mind. Also makes you think twice about when you take your exam (like you won't want to take your M1 october in most cases)

And i voted for the 60 day period.

Its a time frame to get you used to your bike. How it functions, to make it 2nd nature before dumping you on
-crazy ontario highways (honestly, first ride on the bike on the hwy was intimidating, especially since it was a windy day)
-reduced maneouvrability caused by pillion
-reduced visibility in the night

So in the 60 days you get used to getting up to speed, get used to your stopping distance and how your bike SHOULD feel and also to drive more defensively especially for situations where drivers see you even less than in daytime



And to add to it, i also think that the m1 should have a weight to power restriction element to it (hell i'd even do it up for the m2, if it was slightly modified for a shorter time period of eligibility before full M could be acquired)
It would weed out the people who think all the power is needed right from the get go and most likely give a chance for people to learn even more by pushing a smaller bike to its max!

But that latter part is for another discussion

 

[suzuki2000]

System isn't perfect, the course is a foundation to build on, really the wait should be longer IMHO. and possibly have other limits on the M2, but I don't make the rules.

I have a problem that in theory, I could get my M1 take the course switch to an M2 having never ridden except in training, and think i can jump on to the 401. I think that the M2 should still contain limits on passengers and 400 series highways for a longer period of time.

There should be a bigger differentiation between M2 and full M other than just a zero alcohol limit.

 

[JFD]

Also, considering anyone can keep renewing their m1 non stop makes me appreciate some limitations.

 

[ZX600]

Well said.

What makes no sense is that someone with 0 experience can get a license to ride a liter bike with $10 and a written exam the same day.


THAT MAKES NO SENSE.

We lowered the city speed limits to 35m/hr to "protect the children" but yet we let a 18 year old ride a powerful bike with no training whatsoever.

Back in the day, there was no minimum wait period. This 60 days wait is part of the graduated licensing program which includes G class. I voted yes, makes sense.

You don't magically get night-riding and passenger skills at the end of 60 days, but if you were riding around, your base experience (clutch use, shifting gears, steering, cornering, lane position, etc) would be improved so that night riding and/or carrying a passenger would be less of a challenge.

 

[Doctor T]

I actually just picked up my temporary M2 today after waiting 60 days. (Yay me!) I feel it's just the right amount of time for me to start getting into the more 'advanced stuff', so I have no issues with the current system.

 

[nfq]

Sounds like poor planning has more to do with people's gripe about the 60 days than anything else.

 

[taximan62]

Well said.

What makes no sense is that someone with 0 experience can get a license to ride a liter bike with $10 and a written exam the same day.


THAT MAKES NO SENSE.

We lowered the city speed limits to 35m/hr to "protect the children" but yet we let a 18 year old ride a powerful bike with no training whatsoever.

Well yes and no they have to be $financially$ well of to do so as the insurance cost would be huge for a new M1 rider and a litre bike!

 

[-D-]

What makes ZERO sense:
1. no cc limit, 16 year old can write the joke of an M1 test then walk/TTC over and buy a Hyabusa from a shop or privately
2. as I see it the only difference between M2 and M is the M allows you to drink alcohol.

 

[JFD]

Well yes and no they have to be $financially$ well of to do so as the insurance cost would be huge for a new M1 rider and a litre bike!

Uh, welcome to toronto - land of teens that have $100k cars. :/


and also, if you think all these people have insurance......

 

[Riceburner]

Have to fit in the majority, so a limit makes sense. +1 that the M1 and M2 should be more restrictive than the M .

 

[conundrum]

Really, they should do away with the whole M1 and just combine the written test into the M2 course. Then make everyone do the course, pass the written, and get their M2. At that point, then they can forgo any waiting period so people can put what they have learned to practice before forgetting.

The current MTO system seems to be set up to give someone 60 days to practice before they can go for their M2. In theory without it, you could have a 16 year old attempting their M1 and M2 on the same day. Now given how insurance seems to be working here, making courses near mandatory and/or refusing to insure M1 riders, the 60 day wait doesn't really make sense in its current form. But again to parrot what others have said, it makes no sense a 16 year old should be able to jump on a supersport after a 10-20 question test, and that is really what needs to be addressed more than a 60 day waiting period.

Also like others have said, if a person thinks it through properly, they would time things so the 60 day wait doesn't matter. I wrote my M1 in early February after I booked my M2 course with RTI for early April. Timing was set up so that about 1-2 days after the course, I was day 60 and could hand in the paperwork for my M2.

 

[conundrum]

Uh, welcome to toronto - land of teens that have $100k cars. :/


and also, if you think all these people have insurance......

Oh don't get me started on that one and all the CSCC kiddies, especially around the UofT campuses....

 

[trainerdude]

Really, they should do away with the whole M1 and just combine the written test into the M2 course. Then make everyone do the course, pass the written, and get their M2. At that point, then they can forgo any waiting period so people can put what they have learned to practice before forgetting

Also like others have said, if a person thinks it through properly, they would time things so the 60 day wait doesn't matter. I wrote my M1 in early February after I booked my M2 course with RTI for early April. Timing was set up so that about 1-2 days after the course, I was day 60 and could hand in the paperwork for my M2.

I see what your saying and I guess I looked at it different. I just got my M1 and then immediately booked my M2 course for this weekend. This way I can learn to ride as safe as possible and then spend the next 2 months putting into practice the lessons I learn before handing in my results to get my M2.

Also I bought a lower cc bike than I could probably handle to make sure I learn on a bike that doesn't over power me and let's me focus on riding it properly rather than learning to control the power aspect. Figure I will trade up in CC when I get my full M

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