30 KMH Over, Anyone else? | GTAMotorcycle.com

30 KMH Over, Anyone else?

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Kevindagul

Member
Last night was a beautiful night so I decided to ride out to the falls from Scarborough. On the way back I stopped for gas in St. Catherine's. Get back on the on-ramp, and got the bike up to 160kmh (So the officer says) with no one else around except the OPP. I get pulled over and end up with 30kmh over. I guess it could of gone way worse, but with the insurance companies taking all my money already I'm actually scared lol.

I'm 24, first ticket ever. How bad will I get raped by insurance? Is it worth trying to fight it? Will it effect insurance on my vehicle also?


Thanks!
 
Does the ticket have a "R" written by the cop anywhere?

If he says you were doing 160 and gave you ticket for only 30 over then he may have marked it as reduced, you will have to fight 160 in that case if you choose to fight it.


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I got a 32* over (radar/gunned, not reduced) in late spring, applied for a court date (confirmed for December), recorded events and reasoning, but not sure if should go to a lawyer or paralegal or something. I don't really know what else to do than hope the officer doesn't show :/ or just plead guilty for reduction.

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A few important things here
1) As others have said, ticket has the ability to affect your rates on all vehicles
2) If you go to court, the speed could be amended up based on the officers notes (normally R is circled on ticket if charged speed was reduced roadside but that doesn't always happen and isn't a fatal error [ie an error that will help you in court])
3) Most insurance companies treat speeding by 49 km/h or less as a minor ticket. They do not care at all about demerit points (honestly, demerit points are immaterial unless you are the worst 1% of drivers of have a x1 or x2 license).
4) A single minor ticket doesn't always affect rates (and if it did, probably 10%), the 2nd minor gets you 10% or so and it quickly goes downhill from there.
5) Depending on your insurance renewal dates, you could request a trial, renew insurance before the trial and then pay the ticket. It is rare that ins companies will check your abstract midyear.

I would request a court date and attend and hope for an officer no show. Search GTAM for the actual process, but something along the lines of if officer shows, pay ticket before it is your turn to speak to JP so it can't be amended. Now this will cost you a day of time as court will be far from home, so depending on your work situation it may be cheaper/easier just to pay this one and be more careful in the future.

Good luck.

EDIT: If you can't make it to court personally, I would trust very few paralegals with this. Most are idiots and you may get probed hard and dry if you trust this to XCopper or similar.
 
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Also, keep in mind that you are now low hanging fruit.

So slow down for a year or so . . .

Otherwise, you may end up as one of those people juggling 4 or 5 tickets.
 
1st ticket ever...worth fighting if you can spare the time/distance. Send in for trial, ask for disclosure and hope the cop doesn't show or disclosure is late...in which case you can ask for re-schedule of trial and then hope the cop doesn't show. Make notes while it fresh in your memory. Remember what the cop looks like so you have a chance to see if he's there on trial date.

If not, one ticket shouldn't affect you too much as already stated above.
 
Kevindagul said:
Last night was a beautiful night so I decided to ride out to the falls from Scarborough. On the way back I stopped for gas in St. Catherine's. Get back on the on-ramp, and got the bike up to 160kmh (So the officer says) with no one else around except the OPP. I get pulled over and end up with 30kmh over. I guess it could of gone way worse, but with the insurance companies taking all my money already I'm actually scared lol.

I'm 24, first ticket ever. How bad will I get raped by insurance? Is it worth trying to fight it? Will it effect insurance on my vehicle also?


Thanks!
Click to expand...

  1. File intent to fight the ticket
  2. Wait until 6 weeks before court date and file for disclosure, send via registered mail. (it's unlikely they will have enough time to prepare documents for this request). Ask for type written notes, copy of the calibration of radar and officers training records.
  3. Show up to court and if the cop does show, ask the JP to dismiss the charge based on the fact you did not receive proper disclosure. They may try to get you to go over the notes in the hallway, this is complete BS and is not a proper amount of time to prepare an adequate defense.
  4. Prosecution will either drop charges or ask for an adjournment to a later date. You should immediately ask the case to be dismissed based on 11b (Charter of Rights Guarantees your right to a Speedy Trial. Typically JPs agree around 13 months is not speedy.)
  5. If the JP pushes for the adjournment, file again for disclosure (6 weeks before) and also file for 11b. (Send via registered mail). Show up to court with receipts. Go through the routine again, no disclosure, no speedy trial, etc.

The goal here is to get THEM to delay, as it pushes everything in your favour for a successful 11b argument. There's also the chance the cop won't show up if it keeps getting pushed back. Worst case scenario you end up eating the original ticket + court fees. You could also try negotiating with the prosecution but at best they will just drop the points and maybe the fine, this gets you nowhere with insurance.

Plenty of info on this around the interwebs. Feel free to reply or PM me on this subject, I've pulled this off successfully.

GL!
 
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Riceburner said:
1st ticket ever...worth fighting if you can spare the time/distance. Send in for trial, ask for disclosure and hope the cop doesn't show or disclosure is late...in which case you can ask for re-schedule of trial and then hope the cop doesn't show. Make notes while it fresh in your memory. Remember what the cop looks like so you have a chance to see if he's there on trial date.

If not, one ticket shouldn't affect you too much as already stated above.
Click to expand...

Do not be the one asking for a new trial date, you want the prosecution to do that for 11b purposes!
 
Lots of helpful tips here about how to fight the ticket.

Just so you know, some officers have a sense of humor and do not show up in their uniform, for trial. Instead, they can be in a suit. The reason I am saying this is because often times, ppl will look for uniform officers and if they don't see the one who gave them the ticket, erroneously believe they're in the clear. Then, they get surprised when a "suit" comes up.
 
micelli.i said:
Lots of helpful tips here about how to fight the ticket.

Just so you know, some officers have a sense of humor and do not show up in their uniform, for trial. Instead, they can be in a suit. The reason I am saying this is because often times, ppl will look for uniform officers and if they don't see the one who gave them the ticket, erroneously believe they're in the clear. Then, they get surprised when a "suit" comes up.
Click to expand...

When doing the initial check in with the prosecutor, ask if the PO is present. Normally they show up a little early. IME most are not in uniform and I haven't heard a prosecutor outright lie about their presence (deflection yes eg. why does it matter if they are here, I am making the deal with you, not the PO).
 
Evoex said:
  1. File intent to fight the ticket
  2. Wait until 6 weeks before court date and file for disclosure, send via registered mail. (it's unlikely they will have enough time to prepare documents for this request). Ask for type written notes, copy of the calibration of radar and officers training records.
  3. Show up to court and if the cop does show, ask the JP to dismiss the charge based on the fact you did not receive proper disclosure. They may try to get you to go over the notes in the hallway, this is complete BS and is not a proper amount of time to prepare an adequate defense.
  4. Prosecution will either drop charges or ask for an adjournment to a later date. You should immediately ask the case to be dismissed based on 11b (Charter of Rights Guarantees your right to a Speedy Trial. Typically JPs agree around 13 months is not speedy.)
  5. If the JP pushes for the adjournment, file again for disclosure (6 weeks before) and also file for 11b. (Send via registered mail). Show up to court with receipts. Go through the routine again, no disclosure, no speedy trial, etc.

The goal here is to get THEM to delay, as it pushes everything in your favour for a successful 11b argument. There's also the chance the cop won't show up if it keeps getting pushed back. Worst case scenario you end up eating the original ticket + court fees. You could also try negotiating with the prosecution but at best they will just drop the points and maybe the fine, this gets you nowhere with insurance.

Plenty of info on this around the interwebs. Feel free to reply or PM me on this subject, I've pulled this off successfully.

GL!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the informative reply.

Yeah so I'm guessing if I go to the court on the back of the ticket I'll only be in there just to file to get a court date?

When filing for disclosure I'd be mailing the same office? What if I get it and it does say it was reduced from 160kmh? Would I be able to cancel the trial and just plead guilty with what's already there?

Thanks in advance, like I said this is my first ticket ever I'm pretty much clueless about this whole thing
 
When I was younger I was fighting a speeding ticket. Followed a lot of the stuff mentioned in this thread. (people have been doing this disclosure/11b "trick" forever)
So I request disclosure. I received the officers notes, but they are incomplete. I re-requested disclosure, I got it and it's still incomplete. Doesn't mention anything about my traffic stop or testing the gun before or after even though I specifically requested those things.

Spoke with a friend who is a court appointed attorney. They gave me some pointers about what to say in court and how to point out what's missing in my disclosure and how I have a right to full disclosure before trial and blah blah blah.
My friend even tried to speak with the Crown before hand about my lack of proper disclosure. He told her he has a "button" under his desk and he just "presses" this button and gets convictions all day long. :rolleyes:

So I do the trial thing and the I bring up that my disclosure is lacking all the things the crown is using against me. The officer looks at my disclosure and admits it is missing a lot. Crown says it doesn't matter what the officers notes say. JP scorns me saying "You thought you could win because of this?" So needless to say I don't "win".

I go through the appeal process (which is a joke in itself and takes up a lot of your time and money) after almost 2 years I cancel the appeal. I got a civilian job with the Police and didn't want the trouble. Also, because it was gonna take longer than it was gonna be on my record.

Now that the appeal process is cancelled, the ticket/fine (which I haven't paid for all this time because I filed a motion to hold payment due to the appeal and was granted) immediately goes into default and I receive a notice in the mail saying my license is going to be suspended for lack of payment. I had to visit city hall and deal with that BS to get it all settled and ironed out.

Moral of the story: Sometimes no matter how hard you try and how closely you play the game, we really have no power at all. A lot of the time JP's/Crowns don't take civilians playing lawyer very seriously.
Fight the ticket or not, the outcome is in their hands.
Your mileage may vary.
 
Thanks for the replies!

Any experiences with early resolution? If anything I'll take my L, with a reduced fine/demerit points
 
Kevindagul said:
Thanks for the replies!

Any experiences with early resolution? If anything I'll take my L, with a reduced fine/demerit points
Click to expand...

I say fight it, it would be good experience. You only have a few bucks to lose and everything to gain.
 
Kevindagul said:
Thanks for the informative reply.

Yeah so I'm guessing if I go to the court on the back of the ticket I'll only be in there just to file to get a court date?

When filing for disclosure I'd be mailing the same office? What if I get it and it does say it was reduced from 160kmh? Would I be able to cancel the trial and just plead guilty with what's already there?

Thanks in advance, like I said this is my first ticket ever I'm pretty much clueless about this whole thing
Click to expand...

Yeah, you go there to file for a court date.

Read this: http://www.ticketcombat.com/step4/disclosurehow.php

its fairly informative.
 
Evoex said:
I say fight it, it would be good experience. You only have a few bucks to lose and everything to gain.
Click to expand...

Well, unless the crown amends the ticket back to 160 when he decides to fight it, he loses the case, and he ends up nailed for HTA172.

Yeah, then he has everything to lose. BIG time. You'd have been better of just pleading the ticket down in dollar value and taking the charge - it is only considered a minor ticket in the grand scheme of things. The cop cut you a MAJOR break especially in the era of 172 and how cops usually deal with motorcyclists. If you decide to drag the ticket to court pleading not guilty he's not going to be in such a great mood, nor will the crown be forgiving - they will probably try to nail you to the wall for your efforts at that point.

Tread carefully. VERY carefully. Read the above posts about the "R" declaration on the ticket.
 
PrivatePilot said:
Well, unless the crown amends the ticket back to 160 when he decides to fight it, he loses the case, and he ends up nailed for HTA172.

Yeah, then he has everything to lose. BIG time. You'd have been better of just pleading the ticket down in dollar value and taking the charge - it is only considered a minor ticket in the grand scheme of things. The cop cut you a MAJOR break especially in the era of 172 and how cops usually deal with motorcyclists. If you decide to drag the ticket to court pleading not guilty he's not going to be in such a great mood, nor will the crown be forgiving - they will probably try to nail you to the wall for your efforts at that point.

Tread carefully. VERY carefully. Read the above posts about the "R" declaration on the ticket.
Click to expand...

The thought had crossed my mind to be honest, but im not sure he can get a HTA 172 charge just by reversing the ticket. In my un-educated opinion it would revert back to what i assume is a major speeding ticket.

Hopefully one of the many current/x cops prowling around here can weigh in.

Also, who cares what his mood is? The defendant is exercising his rights and what else is he going to say? "oh i don't recall if it was really him now, i made a mistake."

Sadly he's already admitted to speeding or i'd throw in a line or two about presumed innocence until proven otherwise! :)
 
Evoex said:
In my un-educated opinion it would revert back to what i assume is a major speeding ticket.
Click to expand...

A major speeding ticket is much worse insurance wise (~30% bump instead of 10% or less). That's a lot to lose in my book.
 
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