2025 Yamaha YZF-R1 And YZF-R1M | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

2025 Yamaha YZF-R1 And YZF-R1M

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Hold tight. I said the brakes were rated worse on the Japanese bikes, not that they don't have character. That's a you opinion, BP, not me. If you can't find character in a ZX-10R or CBR1000RR, you're not looking very hard. I rode a 2nd gen ZX-10R for years, and that thing had bags of character, especially past about 8,000 rpm on the back straight at PIR. I strongly disagree that I4's are inherently character-free, no matter how hard Honda has tried lately.

Sure, Euro brands have largely surpassed the Japanese in recent years, mostly because they're still actually selling sportbikes and so can justify development. People are drawn to the brand cachet attached to Ducati and BMW, and so will pay a premium for that logo and the associated branded gear. Not so with Kawasaki or even Honda. Even if Yamaha came out with a bike that topped the S1000RR in every performance metric, it would barely sell because it's not seen as a luxury brand, and those are the buyers still buying sportbikes these days. And so the prophecy becomes self-fulfilling etc.

Back to brakes, I'm sure there are both business and pride reasons why the Japanese brands stick with Nissin and Tokico or whatever else they're using, but Brembo is clearly light years ahead of them now. They dominate racing for a reason.
 
Priller said:
Sure, Euro brands have largely surpassed the Japanese in recent years, mostly because they're still actually selling sportbikes and so can justify development. People are drawn to the brand cachet attached to Ducati and BMW, and so will pay a premium for that logo and the associated branded gear. Not so with Kawasaki or even Honda. Even if Yamaha came out with a bike that topped the S1000RR in every performance metric, it would barely sell because it's not seen as a luxury brand, and those are the buyers still buying sportbikes these days. And so the prophecy becomes self-fulfilling etc.
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Dunno about that. R1/R1M does not finish close to the top in superbike shootouts that i recall for the last 4+ years? That's potentially 2 generations of superbike that BMW and Ducati have been smashing in real world street/track applications. Why? Dated tech has been the big reason that i can recall.

Maybe Yamaha et al do not want to spend money on tech, fine. Then don't expect to a) win shootouts and b) outsell the competition. The BMW RR not only comes with all the current tech and then some, it's all day comfortable and it will give everyone a run for their money on the track. The street cred is just icing on the cake.

This is on the OEMs not the buyers, imo.
 
Evoex said:
Dunno about that. R1/R1M does not finish close to the top in superbike shootouts that i recall for the last 4+ years? That's potentially 2 generations of superbike that BMW and Ducati have been smashing in real world street/track applications. Why? Dated tech has been the big reason that i can recall.

Maybe Yamaha et al do not want to spend money on tech, fine. Then don't expect to a) win shootouts and b) outsell the competition. The BMW RR not only comes with all the current tech and then some, it's all day comfortable and it will give everyone a run for their money on the track. The street cred is just icing on the cake.

This on the OEMs not the buyers, imo.
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The R1 hasn't been meaningfully updated since 2015. Almost 10 years. The reason for that isn't that Yamaha can't figure out the tech, it's that they've done the market research and the financials for developing a new model don't add up. They would have to charge more than people would be willing to pay for a bike that didn't have a so-called luxury logo on the side. Japanese sportbikes made financial sense when they could produce thousands and thousands of them. Volumes now are miniscule compared to the Japanese heyday in the late-'90s and early-'00s, so they would have to charge Ducati prices to make it make sense, but not enough folks are willing to pay that for something that says Yamaha on the tank.

They're happy to count their cash from selling hundreds of thousands of small bikes across Asia instead, and leave the sportbike market to the Euro brands. There's a reason all the Japanese brands came out with luxury brands in the car market, but the bike market doesn't justify that sort of effort...
 
Priller said:
They're happy to count their cash from selling hundreds of thousands of small bikes across Asia instead, and leave the sportbike market to the Euro brands. There's a reason all the Japanese brands came out with luxury brands in the car market, but the bike market doesn't justify that sort of effort...
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I agree with your thought process. It would be interesting if they collaborated (like happened with yamaha/arctic cat snowmobiles right before the end). Not enough money for each manufacturer to take a swing but combining to release a Japanese RR and naked may be financially viable and could provide some pressure on europeans.
 
GreyGhost said:
I agree with your thought process. It would be interesting if they collaborated (like happened with yamaha/arctic cat snowmobiles right before the end). Not enough money for each manufacturer to take a swing but combining to release a Japanese RR and naked may be financially viable and could provide some pressure on europeans.
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Yes a Harley Suzuki superbike would be awesome

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Scuba Steve said:
Yes a Harley Suzuki superbike would be awesome

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I was more thinking Yamaha/Honda/Kawasaki/Suzuki partnership. Yamaha engine, I have no idea what the others contribute. It's a race for who has the best bold new colors.

Other than branding, HD has nothing to contribute (although in the back of my head, an XR1200 is always a possibility for a future bike).
 
GreyGhost said:
At least it comes stock with approx 1 hp/cu in. Normally you need to be deep in the stages to get anywhere close to that from HD.
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You paid for the stages already; check the price tag 😂
 
The comment was made in jest, but now I'm wondering about the numbers. How many CVO does HD sell at $53k CAD, versus how many R1 ($23k CAD) or R1M ($32k CAD) does Yamaha sell? In terms of profit margin, should Yamaha be selling a King of the Baggers model instead of a superbike?
 
Ash said:
The comment was made in jest, but now I'm wondering about the numbers. How many CVO does HD sell at $53k CAD, versus how many R1 ($23k CAD) or R1M ($32k CAD) does Yamaha sell? In terms of profit margin, should Yamaha be selling a King of the Baggers model instead of a superbike?
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No because the knuckle draggers won't buy it. By every objective measure @PrivatePilot 's couch is better than what HD offers. They killed the program completely due to lack of interest.
 
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Ok, I made a mistake by looking up those King of the Baggers bikes. I was already thinking about getting a new track bike and a new R1 looks like an absolute bargain in comparison, so maybe I need to unsubscribe from this thread until the urge subsides.

Indian sold something very close to their real King of the Baggers bike in 2023 for $113k CAD:
www.revzilla.com

2023 Indian Challenger RR King of the Baggers edition first look - RevZilla

The Challenger RR is basically a copy of the motorcycle Tyler O'Hara won the MotoAmerica King of the Baggers title with. Just 29 are being built.
www.revzilla.com www.revzilla.com
 
Priller said:
They dominate racing for a reason.
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I don't think the real reason they dominate MotoGP is the same reason you think they dominate MotoGP... but that just might be me

Nissin AND Tokico brake companies are 50% owned by Honda, so is Showa suspension. Hitachi Astemo is the parent company
Ever heard of AdeLin brakes? Chinese company, does radial masters. They support a bunch of asian race teams, I've been using their stuff for a few years, and I think they work as well as brembo RCS, at a tenth of the price. The only problem I've had is the stainless steel ratio adjustment screw is made out of chinese monkey metal and rusts... just get it adjusted before it rusts. They make calipers too, never tried them, but they look a lot like Brembos... like almost "knock off" Brembos
You've probably never heard of them, as they don't spend millions of dollars every year on advertising... like Brembo does... advertising dollars that assures every winning MotoGP bike has Brembo brakes.
EVERY winner of the Daytona 500 has had Goodyear tires... ONLY because Goodyear sponsors the Daytona 500, and you can't enter the race on any other tire (When we started to go to "short tracks" Goodyear didn't have a short track tire. Some guys got caught running Hoosier short track tires... with the Goodyear logo painted on the sidewall. Goodyear said nothing, because they didn't want it known they didn't have a short track tire)
Firestone sponsored the Indy... guess what tire has more Indy wins?
I happened to be talking to Nicki Hayden, and I HATE Dunlop tires, so I asked him why he runs Dunlop tires... with a smartass smirk he answered "Because they pay me $10,000 per race to run them, $25,000 if I win"

... but maybe it's because I'm such a cynic
 
bitzz said:
Harley did a premium priced "limited edition" 25 yr anniversary something or other bike
Production was limited to how many bikes they could sell... and a few more... just in case, enough they sat on the showroom floor
Got sued... lost
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Most HD should just come with boomer boards. 1 of 1 2024 Black FLXHDLOLFURSTLNE with custom HD bolts, Stage 3+ racing motor, etc etc. Just put it right in the shipping crate. Owners will love it.
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