2024 MotoGP Discussion Thread (No Links - May Contain Spoilers

I actually have more KTM's in the garage than Ducati's ;-) but even if I didn't I couldn't care less about manufacturer, teams, politics or Dorna, I enjoy the racing and the different riding styles. I also happen to be a MM93 fan so i'm glad to see him do better and cant wait to see what he does on a factory Ducati in 25.

Yep, 3-to-1 KTM-to-Duc ratio in our garage too.

And I don't mind that it's a bit of a Ducati cup the last couple of years. Just like I didn't mind that the same 4 guys won all the races for pretty much half a decade...

Not a MM93 fan, but I love me an underdog story, and if that guy wins a WC after all the injuries and surgeries he's had, it would make a pretty great story to watch unfold.

Also, I can't decide who I hate more - VR46 or MM93. So if MM93 steals more Premiere Class WCs than Rossi, then I'm more than okay with that. 🥳🤭👿

PS. Lovin' the sprint races. Loved it in WSBK, loving it in MotoGP! 10/10ths over 10 laps. Bring it!!!
 
Agree that Marc brings in more sponsors so it was purely a financial decision. But I think MM is just going to create more problems for the factory team than its worth.
And is 3rd in this championship with last year's bike on a satelite team... think that might have something to do with it too.

But to quote Pedro Acosta: This is what the people want!

Pecco and Marc have a amicable relationship on the surface, as Pecco doesn't bring that VR46 BS with him and is pretty classy about it, but I agree when they are on equal machinery its going to get spicy. I think Gigi knows what he got himself into, so now we as the viewers get to sit back and watch it all kickoff for 22 weekends next year!

Argentina and Czech Republic are back on the calendar. 😛

2025 MotoGP™ calendar revealed
 
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Ducati has only been dominating in the past few seasons, they celebrated their 100th GP victory last weekend which still leaves them several dozen victories behind MV Agusta that hasn't competed in GP since before I was born, and HUNDREDS of victories behind Yamaha and Honda, they are not really the goliath you paint them to be.
Well....

They are the current MODERN DAY Goliath without a doubt. They're dominating like never before. Can't fault them for their innovation and the likes - GiGi Dalligna has been the driving force in pushing their limits.

I still wonder how much Aprilia kicks themselves in their collective ***** for letting him get away from their lead engineer position.
 
Well....

They are the current MODERN DAY Goliath without a doubt. They're dominating like never before. Can't fault them for their innovation and the likes - GiGi Dalligna has been the driving force in pushing their limits.

I still wonder how much Aprilia kicks themselves in their collective ***** for letting him get away from their lead engineer position.
all depends on what you consider "modern day" past 3 years? you are right, now if you widen that lens to the past decade.......
 
The amount of unforced errors between the championship contenders the last couple of years is... a bit un-championship-like, IMO. It's like a last-guy-standing competition - crowning the guy who makes the least mistakes.

I just remember premiere-class world champions and rivalries being more about actually beating rivals, rather than inheriting podiums.

Especially Mir's championship...

(yeah, yeah, Nicky Hayden... but he was a super-nice guy and really deserved it...)

If Marquez can forget about trying to push the Duc as if he was riding a Honda, next year he is going to totally fill this current power vacuum...
 
The amount of unforced errors between the championship contenders the last couple of years is... a bit un-championship-like, IMO. It's like a last-guy-standing competition - crowning the guy who makes the least mistakes.

I just remember premiere-class world champions and rivalries being more about actually beating rivals, rather than inheriting podiums.

Especially Mir's championship...

(yeah, yeah, Nicky Hayden... but he was a super-nice guy and really deserved it...)

If Marquez can forget about trying to push the Duc as if he was riding a Honda, next year he is going to totally fill this current power vacuum...
The counter-argument is that the Ducati, all the aero, and the modern Michelins don't give a lot of warning before letting go, so a rider can ride exactly as they did for the previous five laps, but then whammo, down they go, losing the front. The aero is apparently a big part of this, as the tires have so much mechanical grip that they don't slide like they used to. Lots of grip or no grip, nothing in between, like walking on wet glass with rubber shoes.

The aero can also play a bigger part where getting sucked into someone's draft at the end of a straight can kill your front grip and by extension your ability to brake, and down you go.

To be fair, I haven't watched much this year, but I watched every race between the 2021 season and about 3/4 of the way through last season, and it was a common theme for both Pecco and Martin to lose the front somewhere (usually on the brakes) and seem totally mystified as to why they crashed, even after looking at the data. Marquez has had his share of unforced errors this year, too, even on a Ducati.

Not to say he won't take the title next year, it's looking more and more like he will if he stays healthy (he is the undisputed GOAT, after all), but I don't think it's a generational problem with the riders as much as the bikes...

(Oh, and the Mir year was so affected by covid that it's a total outlier. The results from that year are all over the map, with two race winners who finished outside the top-ten in the championship and nobody winning more than three rounds. Honda was all at sea without Marquez, and beginning to show signs that something was deeply wrong with their bike development. Yamaha had put all their eggs in the Vinales basket, and we all know how that turned out. And Ducati still had a ways to go.)
 
Not sure I buy the "blame the new technology/tires" argument.

There are 20+ of the fastest riders on earth taking hundreds of laps every weekend of testing and tuning on a variety of conditions, soft rubber, hard rubber, rain rubber. In prototype racing, every season, new regulations, new technology and news tires are introduced. Trying to find the limit of all that new tech/tires and then staying a hair's breadth on the correct side of that limit has been and still remains their one and only job. And aero is far from new, we're several seasons into that technology, especially for the Europeans.

I've read interviews from all the contenders this year and if you're to take their expert opinion over our Monday morning quarterbacking: Pecco is quick to blame the Michelins. Martin disagrees and blames the track conditions. Marquez blames his Honda-like riding style and new-found "overconfidence" on the Ducati.

There doesn't seem to be any one single consensus from the people actually riding these machines as to why this has turned into a championship of crashes.

I think 2025 will bring clarity when a former alien will come into his own, given equal machinery and a whole year of testing and experience under his belt.

Worth sticking around and watching, IMO!
 
There are 20+ of the fastest riders on earth taking hundreds of laps every weekend of testing and tuning on a variety of conditions, soft rubber, hard rubber, rain rubber. In prototype racing, every season, new regulations, new technology and news tires are introduced. Trying to find the limit of all that new tech/tires and then staying a hair's breadth on the correct side of that limit has been and still remains their one and only job.
All of which, to me, reinforces that the changed denominator is the bikes, not the riders. Especially the Ducati, which is almost 'too good' as Pecco has described it, at providing grip, but has taken away feel at the limit.

It's a strategy that works for Ducati, especially with so many bikes on the grid. If you develop a super fast bike that wins or crashes, your only threat from other manufacturers is if they are second fastest. If they're eighth fastest, they still won't score enough points to touch you, which is exactly how this season is playing out.

And aero is far from new, we're several seasons into that technology, especially for the Europeans.
And the more the aero has dominated, the more random crashing we've seen. You can mark the changing of the guard specifically to Pecco and Ducati winning at the Aragon round in 2021. Since then, winning lots and binning occasionally has defined all the championship contenders. We're just seeing the apotheosis of this now.

I've read interviews from all the contenders this year and if you're to take their expert opinion over our Monday morning quarterbacking: Pecco is quick to blame the Michelins. Martin disagrees and blames the track conditions. Marquez blames his Honda-like riding style and new-found "overconfidence" on the Ducati.

There doesn't seem to be any one single consensus from the people actually riding these machines as to why this has turned into a championship of crashes.
Nothing to do with those same riders not wanting to bite the hand that feeds, risk the Wrath of Tardozzi, and criticise the bike or the rule set that has worked best for them? Pecco has complained about the lack of feel with the bike in the past (e.g. 'too good' comment), and then very quickly come out with clarification and correction.

Not to mention, each runs their own personal counter-intelligence program to put pressure on their rivals and hide weaknesses. Marquez learned from the best in Rossi.

The only time you can believe a rider is after they retire, and even then... (see also: Rossi, V.)

I think 2025 will bring clarity when a former alien will come into his own, given equal machinery and a whole year of testing and experience under his belt.
Maybe. Could be that Marquez resumes the approach he had on the Honda of finding the limits by crashing a lot in practice, and finds a way to stay enough in the limits to stop crashing in races. But that will be more down to his particular generational skill than a lack of skill in the others, I think.

Worth sticking around and watching, IMO!
Meh. I dream that Martin (and a cash infusion from Piaggio) will elevate Aprilia beyond plucky underdog status, that Acosta wills the KTM into consistent competition (Guidotti is gone next year, too, having failed to bring the Ducati magic Bierer was hoping for), and that Yamaha's slow progress speeds up. Honda, I'll just be impressed if they don't pull out altogether. I'm not holding out much hope, though. Dall'Igna is a genius, especially at finding gaps in the regulations.

The rules need a shake-up sooner than 2027, and they need to follow the F1 path and hire an aero expert to develop guidelines that allow for innovation but minimise the impact to other riders, especially in the draft. Of course, as long as Ducati has veto power, it'll never happen... (see also: Devices, ride height)
 
Of course, as long as Ducati has veto power, it'll never happen... (see also: Devices, ride height)

Hmm, from my perspective they've been pretty generous with what they've allowed already. The concession system is so lopsided it's sad.
 
If Marquez can forget about trying to push the Duc as if he was riding a Honda, next year he is going to totally fill this current power vacuum...
Haha, you guys are so far off the Marc, get it... :)

This weekend he pushes that '23 Ducati like a Honda all around PI and not only gets a p2 from the sprint after a bad start but then a win where he goes from 13th to P1 with a massive burn out at the start.

This is what happens when you don't focus on the racing and instead fall into the character arc trap, charisma doesn't make racing exciting amazing riders do.

And controversy aside, 93 is by far the superior rider on the grid by miles. Injuries, age and the 'I want to kill anything that sits on me' HRC style of developing a bike philosophy took a toll and he isn't his '19 self anymore but it's still pretty obvious that he is the only alien left on that grid. Acosta may in time live up to his hype, but today was a masterclass and a throwback to who makes GP worth watching these days.

I just hope politics and nationalism don't compromise the next few seasons at the red team, because if it doesn't I can easily see double digits WCs for 93.
 
Up until yesterdays race , I had Martin being the best rider all season. But Marc seems to really enjoy being on the Ducati. I wonder if it's just the honeymoon phase. Reminds me of a few riders that are are just about to make to the jump to the manufacture team. They do well on the satellite teams but then not so good once the pressure is on to perform at the top level consistently on the factory team.
 
Up until yesterdays race , I had Martin being the best rider all season. But Marc seems to really enjoy being on the Ducati. I wonder if it's just the honeymoon phase. Reminds me of a few riders that are are just about to make to the jump to the manufacture team. They do well on the satellite teams but then not so good once the pressure is on to perform at the top level consistently on the factory team.

MM93 is a well-known quantity. He's been on a factory team for pretty much all of his very long career. Barring injury, he's not going to choke at factory Ducati next year.
 
Haha, you guys are so far off the Marc, get it... :)

This weekend he pushes that '23 Ducati like a Honda all around PI and not only gets a p2 from the sprint after a bad start but then a win where he goes from 13th to P1 with a massive burn out at the start.

This is what happens when you don't focus on the racing and instead fall into the character arc trap, charisma doesn't make racing exciting amazing riders do.

And controversy aside, 93 is by far the superior rider on the grid by miles. Injuries, age and the 'I want to kill anything that sits on me' HRC style of developing a bike philosophy took a toll and he isn't his '19 self anymore but it's still pretty obvious that he is the only alien left on that grid. Acosta may in time live up to his hype, but today was a masterclass and a throwback to who makes GP worth watching these days.

I just hope politics and nationalism don't compromise the next few seasons at the red team, because if it doesn't I can easily see double digits WCs for 93.

Not sure who or what straw man you're responding to, but I've always maintained MM93 is the best rider on the grid.

Marquez wasn't over-riding the bike in Australia. At most horsepower tracks, the GP23 is at a clear disadvantage to the GP24s, but PI is different. It's a flowing track with not a lot of slow speed corners (only two) to point-and-squirt out of. It's the kind of track where a good rider on an ok bike will outshine ok riders on superior machinery, which is exactly what happened last weekend.

He will absolutely dominate on a GP25 next year, if that bike turns out better than the GP24.
 
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Not sure who or what straw man you're responding to, but I've always maintained MM93 is the best rider on the grid.

Marquez wasn't over-riding the bike in Australia. At most horsepower tracks, the GP23 is at a clear disadvantage to the GP24s, but PI is different. It's a flowing track with not a lot of slow speed corners (only two) to point-and-squirt out of. It's the kind of track where a good rider on an ok bike will outshine ok riders on superior machinery, which is exactly what happened last weekend.

He will absolutely dominate on a GP25 next year, if that bike turns out better than the GP24.

Not a strawman, just weighing on your and Priller's conversation, and how he thinks this season's racing is dull... when in all actuality Marc is honestly putting on a show on inferior machinery for all to see what lies ahead if he stays healthy. And while Japan was 'boring,' even Marc said as much, but that is only because he had no one to fight with: 2019 was a dull year for the same reason, but the riding itself was amazing.

But, I guess I really should remember how to quote better, so let me put your excerpt to show I didn't want to make you out to be my 'strawman' in that last chain:

I think 2025 will bring clarity when a former alien will come into his own, given equal machinery and a whole year of testing and experience under his belt.

But, yeah. 2024 is quite honestly a throwaway season at this point, Martin can and should win it just to draw more attention and sponorship to Aprillia if it's to be competitive in the future, but honestly I think both Pecco and Martin are so inconsistent that it's just a matter of who fails the least/last, which can be entertaining in a way but is just showing how much better the alien era was in terms of over all talent rather than superior machinery that makes up for a lack of rider talent.

I guess I'm turning into Stoner here in a way...
 
Up until yesterdays race , I had Martin being the best rider all season. But Marc seems to really enjoy being on the Ducati. I wonder if it's just the honeymoon phase. Reminds me of a few riders that are are just about to make to the jump to the manufacture team. They do well on the satellite teams but then not so good once the pressure is on to perform at the top level consistently on the factory team.
An 8 WDC who is destroying the field on equal machinery with less time on it and taking podiums regularly off those with superior machinery and there are still doubts if he will get 'stage frieght' when he fought most all of the aliens in their prime and won... yeah, I really don't get what series some of you guys are watching and how you you can equate Marc with say a Bastianini.

And to be fair I like(d) Gresini era Enea, he was way more aggressive and cut-throat: I just don't think he is a WDC material at the GP level and likely never will after these 2 seasons anymore, sadly. I can see him with a few more wins on teh odd track where weather and circumstance favours the gasgas but that is about it.

I honestly wish they would have let Marc had a works bike at Grisini, as he really feels at home there and it will be a shame to not see the same vibe they have in that padock next season, but such is the 'cost to be the boss' and win a WDC I suppose.

Injuries are the only thing I see being a real threat to Marc, and with his riding style being what it is that is and always has been an issue.
 
Not a strawman, just weighing on your and Priller's conversation, and how he thinks this season's racing is dull... when in all actuality Marc is honestly putting on a show on inferior machinery for all to see what lies ahead if he stays healthy. And while Japan was 'boring,' even Marc said as much, but that is only because he had no one to fight with: 2019 was a dull year for the same reason, but the riding itself was amazing.
This season's racing is dull to me because I don't care to watch a one-make prototype championship. Nothing to do with Marquez. I don't like Marquez, mostly because I think he's a dangerous rider who is perfectly happy to put other riders at risk, even when he stands to gain very little, but that doesn't change the fact that he's the top candidate for GOAT, however that can be defined across different historical periods and levels of competition. If I had to put money down on the championship next year, it's 100% on him, though a payoff wouldn't make me happy. Your fandom of him may increase your enjoyment of watching him race, but don't confuse my not liking Marquez with not thinking he's an incredible racer. That doesn't make the current crop of riders somehow worse, it just speaks to his generational talent. I think he would have easily beaten (and did, though times had changed somewhat) all of the so-called aliens at their peak, too, and made them look very average. Part of the reason I was so disappointed that he landed on a factory Ducati is that I think the championship is a lot more interesting if he's elevating another bike rather than just joining the crowd on the obvious one.

Oh, and not to take away from his win in Australia, but it's also a lot easier to win when you have less to lose. Crashing at PI is meaningless for Marquez, but would be catastrophic for Pecco or Martin. Those two just need to worry about beating each other at this point.

I do think one big problem MotoGP has now is that because of aero and the dumbing down of Moto2, there is no feeder class out there that's even remotely close to riding a MotoGP bike. The power, the aero, the ride height controls, the totally different riding style, it all adds up to a crapshoot for promoting riders because of how different the bikes are. The one-make dominance also means it becomes a lot harder to judge anyone not on a Ducati. Can Acosta elevate the KTM? Hard to say. But if the current setup means an occasional podium at best until his agent can orchestrate a move to Ducati, that's an indication of a thoroughly broken series to me.

I'll check back at the start of next year to see if Martin on the Aprilia or Acosta on the KTM can crack the Ducati hegemony, but if a non-Ducati is still only making the podium once every five races or so, I'll be out again. Nothing to do with Marquez, just that a functionally one-make class is not what interests me about prototype racing. If watching Marquez is enough to float your boat, have at it. It's not enough for me, though...
 
I do miss the "Alien" era. Alot more riders on equal machinery that could win on any given race.

With regards to Marc and the pressure he will face next season. Yes I get it we can't compare him to other riders that moved up to factory team. But regardless he has nothing to lose right now. He can ride at his own risk level. There are no expectations for him to win on a Satellite team with last year's bike. The fact he was chosen over Martin means he will be expected to compete for the win every race and thus he will be taking even more chances than he already is. Marc is already known for having more wipeouts than than the top performers. Will this jump push him even more over the edge.

Agree with Winales where you said the best outcome would of been if he could stay with Gresinin on a factory bike. That seems to be close family type team and he really fits in there.

At least next season should be more interesting. Bring on the wall between Peco and Marc lol.
 
Just to be clear @Winales_2017 . I'm not a Marc fan here. But I do enjoy watching him fight for wins. I would like to see Martin get his championship this year. Just to prove they chose the wrong rider for the factory spot. After that I wouldn't mind seeing Peco continue to do well and Pedro Acosta comming into his own.
I just want to see at least 5 top riders that can win on any given race day next year.
 
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