2022 MotoGP Discussion (No Links - Contains Spoilers!)
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You forgot /sarcasm...
Martin with a sub 1:58!
If only he can extend his one lap pace through race distance...
You forgot /sarcasm...
Martin with a sub 1:58!
I think he was almost 2 seconds faster than his team mate, which is amazing when you think about it. Not sure what the weather forecast is for tomorrow.
Winales_2017
Well-known member
This latter part of the season is delivering, and it's not surprise that Marc has brinigng this championship back alive.
Valencia should be a good one!
Not that there was a lack of action on track, but most of the excitement was watching the frenzy inside the Ducati paddock.
Will those white haired Italian men storm the Gresini garage and demand they send Mapping 8 to Bestia's dashboard? What a nail-biter!!!
Quatararo fending off those Ducs on a gimped bike with a gimped hand. MCU performance.
Will those white haired Italian men storm the Gresini garage and demand they send Mapping 8 to Bestia's dashboard? What a nail-biter!!!
Quatararo fending off those Ducs on a gimped bike with a gimped hand. MCU performance.
Who thinks Bastianini was told to hold station?
Not me.
He was told to and was trying to make clean passes but he definitely looked like he was pushing hard for a race win. He was half a meter from Bagnaia's rear tire for half the race and almost lost the front once.
It looked like he backed off at the end after Dall'lgna took his walk down pit lane.
I think he was overheating his front being that close. Decided to wait it out instead. Those last couple of laps he was back to swarming all over Bagnaia.
Every post-race interview I read said that Ducati brass maintained "no team orders", and Bestianini said: "I tried to win"
Bastianini: Bagnaia pit board message changed nothing; ‘I tried to win’
Despite knowing an overtake on Francesco Bagnaia could play a big role as to whether the Italian won the MotoGP title in Sepang or not, Enea Bastianini says that and a pit board message on lap 12 from his team changed nothing.
www.crash.net
Also, we would have seen some kind of "message" on either Bestia's pit board or on the dashboard communications system.
Winales_2017
Well-known member
It's hardly concrete as far as a source goes that this took place, but Pernat asked Ducato for the money (Enea is contractically rewarded finishing in the top 3) since Basta won't be coming in 3rd as a result of team orders:
Gustavo Morea on Instagram: "Carlo Pernat manager de Enea Bastianini pidió un resarcimiento económico a Ducati para su piloto , por el hecho de no poder luchar libremente por el tercer puesto en el mundial , con esto y conociendo la seriedad de Carl
Gustavo Morea shared a post on Instagram: "Carlo Pernat manager de Enea Bastianini pidió un resarcimiento económico a Ducati para su piloto , por el hecho de no poder luchar libremente por el tercer puesto en el mundial , con esto y conociendo la seriedad de Carlo ya no me quedan dudas sobre el...
www.instagram.com
Personally speaking, I sill don't rate Pecco high, nor Fabio, they got lucky due to other people's lack of development and inconstancy in order to win a championship. I still argue Enea will be top rider by mid-season a the work's team, and his last race prove why.
He has that killer instinct that you cannot teach, and can manage the tires better than anyone on the grid right now.
Priller
Well-known member
I read that Pernat and Ciabatti had a shouting match after the race. Pernat is doing what he's paid to do, make Bastianini the most cash he can. I personally think Bagnaia won the race fairly, the only difference being the Ducati thing stopped Enea from any barging. He'd burnt his tires keeping up, so there's every chance it would have made no difference with Bagnaia able to exit harder.
Barring some kind of Yamaha miracle (and Quartararo winning really would be extraordinary), the title is Pecco's. I'm a way, it was good to see both him and Quartararo on the podium in Malaysia, as they're clearly the class of the field. They've just rarely been going against each other directly, which takes some of the drama out of it. It's been a good year as far as the big-picture tension for the title, but the actual racing has had room for improvement. Ducati has finally got their bike working well everywhere, and nobody else has an answer.
That said, I've been impressed by Bagnaia this latter half of the year. I thought he'd choke when the stakes were raised, but he's handled everything with a surprising amount of cool. Even the whole Bastianini thing, which would fluster many riders, doesn't seem to have fazed him. Barring the stupidity in Motegi, he's been incredibly consistent, and once Ducati stopped forcing him to develop new bits (the only time he's sounded cranky all year), he's been really good. The Ducati brass clearly love him, too, so he's always going to get their benefit of the doubt. I'm not sure the more abrasive and self-oriented Bastianini will be cut the same slack. To repeat an obvious sentiment, 2023 will be very interesting in that garage.
Here's hoping for something other than a Ducati lockout of the top 6 at Valencia, though I'm not holding my breath. It's arguably the worst track layout of the year and I hate that geography dictates that it's got to be the finale...
Barring some kind of Yamaha miracle (and Quartararo winning really would be extraordinary), the title is Pecco's. I'm a way, it was good to see both him and Quartararo on the podium in Malaysia, as they're clearly the class of the field. They've just rarely been going against each other directly, which takes some of the drama out of it. It's been a good year as far as the big-picture tension for the title, but the actual racing has had room for improvement. Ducati has finally got their bike working well everywhere, and nobody else has an answer.
That said, I've been impressed by Bagnaia this latter half of the year. I thought he'd choke when the stakes were raised, but he's handled everything with a surprising amount of cool. Even the whole Bastianini thing, which would fluster many riders, doesn't seem to have fazed him. Barring the stupidity in Motegi, he's been incredibly consistent, and once Ducati stopped forcing him to develop new bits (the only time he's sounded cranky all year), he's been really good. The Ducati brass clearly love him, too, so he's always going to get their benefit of the doubt. I'm not sure the more abrasive and self-oriented Bastianini will be cut the same slack. To repeat an obvious sentiment, 2023 will be very interesting in that garage.
Here's hoping for something other than a Ducati lockout of the top 6 at Valencia, though I'm not holding my breath. It's arguably the worst track layout of the year and I hate that geography dictates that it's got to be the finale...
All went according to script and no surprises. Congrats to Pecco and Ducati! Quatararo rode like a champ, just that his bike wasn't championship material this year.
Can't wait to see how Bestia is going to do with factory support next year! Yet another contender thrown into the mix. 2023 is going to be another great season!
Can't wait to see how Bestia is going to do with factory support next year! Yet another contender thrown into the mix. 2023 is going to be another great season!
Winales_2017
Well-known member
I don't know, a Suzuki win as they bow out and after a long string of DNFs was quite the surprise.
With that said, yeah the championship wrapped up after Fabio regained his head after those few opening laps and the leaders got away from him while he was out there guns blazing. Fabio can and should remain on a Yamaha, his riding style is the closest to JLO other than maybe Rins, who I hope goes to Yamaha after they boot Franky out.
Priller
Well-known member
Suzuki winning at both PI and Valencia late in the year suggests that package with the added power had a lot of potential derailed by injuries to Mir, Rins' inconsistency, and obviously the distractions of Suzuki's poorly managed exit. It's got to be encouraging to Yamaha, though. The fear with the M1 has been that adding power would upset the corner speed advantage they've traditionally had. If nothing else, the inline motor might not be dead just yet...
It was a very weird year, but a fun one. Sort of a season of four quarters, with the opening round flyaways being pure chaos and horrible for the factory Ducatis, the pre-break Euro rounds letting Quartarao show his corner entry skill on the Yamaha, the post-break Euro rounds being all-Pecco-all-the-time, and then the end of season flyaways being Fabio and Yamaha in freefall.
It's a good thing Ducati took ages to get their bike sorted, though, or it would have been over ages ago. I like Pecco as a champion, though I hope this isn't the start of a long run of Ducati dominance.
Lots to look forward to next year, including the return of Marc (or, re-re-re-return) and a test for Honda to keep him from jumping to Ducati, whether Yamaha can build a faster bike, whether KTM has stalled in their development or if this year was just a speedbump, whether Aprilia can kick on from their improvements or if 2022 was a missed opportunity when everyone else was struggling, how Aprilia handles going from no factory team to managing both a factory and satellite team in the space of three years, whether the new faces at Honda can do better than the old faces, whether sprint races favor the quick setup men (Fabio) or the big HP bikes (Ducati), whether the inability to develop new tires will eventually kill a round (they came so close in Indonesia this year).
As for the series, here's my shopping list for Dorna to sort out:
- Tires: there can't be a 5+ year development cycle. The bikes are out-developing the tires, and the limited test time has become a huge issue in this regard.
- Tech: MSMA needs to get rid of unanimous vote requirement to change tech. Ditch ride height for everything except the start, and develop independent expert group to modify aero rules to minimize turbulence issues preventing passing. Not sure mass dampers are needed, either.
- Safety: Small classes need to be fixed, even if it means the racing isn't as bonkers. Young riders in various <350cc classes are now dying at over two per year, and it needs to be fixed with more than tribute stickers and memorial empty pit boxes. Whether it's gearing limitations, aero that discourages wheel-sucking, or anything else, it's got to be sorted. I think we're all pretty sick of seeing the In Memoriam pics on race weekends.
In the same category, hunting for tows in all classes needs to be ended. We had some extremely close calls with riders dawdling on the line even in the top classes, and it's only a matter of time before there's a high speed collision. It boggles my mind that race direction and the stewards can't sort this out. When on track, you're either riding at a competitive pace or you get off the track. There's a million ways they could address this, but they seem incapable. I hope it doesn't take the end of someone's career for them to start paying attention. My personal vote is also for a staggered start QP, max one rider out every five seconds or so, to eliminate the pit lane stupidity that is creeping in. Not quite superpole, but close. And if a rider is deemed to have gained an advantage by slipstream, the lap is chalked off, same as if they ride on the green. It's QP, not racing, and shouldn't be a measure of who is most brazen in sucking wheels.
- Teams: Find ways to discourage the situation we have with 8 Ducatis on the grid without explicitly limiting bikes per manufacturer. Dorna has been willing to fund teams and riders in the past, so perhaps they could throw some money at a team to push them towards a less well-represented brand. VR46 on a Yamaha in 2024 would be a good start...
It's gonna be a long winter...
It was a very weird year, but a fun one. Sort of a season of four quarters, with the opening round flyaways being pure chaos and horrible for the factory Ducatis, the pre-break Euro rounds letting Quartarao show his corner entry skill on the Yamaha, the post-break Euro rounds being all-Pecco-all-the-time, and then the end of season flyaways being Fabio and Yamaha in freefall.
It's a good thing Ducati took ages to get their bike sorted, though, or it would have been over ages ago. I like Pecco as a champion, though I hope this isn't the start of a long run of Ducati dominance.
Lots to look forward to next year, including the return of Marc (or, re-re-re-return) and a test for Honda to keep him from jumping to Ducati, whether Yamaha can build a faster bike, whether KTM has stalled in their development or if this year was just a speedbump, whether Aprilia can kick on from their improvements or if 2022 was a missed opportunity when everyone else was struggling, how Aprilia handles going from no factory team to managing both a factory and satellite team in the space of three years, whether the new faces at Honda can do better than the old faces, whether sprint races favor the quick setup men (Fabio) or the big HP bikes (Ducati), whether the inability to develop new tires will eventually kill a round (they came so close in Indonesia this year).
As for the series, here's my shopping list for Dorna to sort out:
- Tires: there can't be a 5+ year development cycle. The bikes are out-developing the tires, and the limited test time has become a huge issue in this regard.
- Tech: MSMA needs to get rid of unanimous vote requirement to change tech. Ditch ride height for everything except the start, and develop independent expert group to modify aero rules to minimize turbulence issues preventing passing. Not sure mass dampers are needed, either.
- Safety: Small classes need to be fixed, even if it means the racing isn't as bonkers. Young riders in various <350cc classes are now dying at over two per year, and it needs to be fixed with more than tribute stickers and memorial empty pit boxes. Whether it's gearing limitations, aero that discourages wheel-sucking, or anything else, it's got to be sorted. I think we're all pretty sick of seeing the In Memoriam pics on race weekends.
In the same category, hunting for tows in all classes needs to be ended. We had some extremely close calls with riders dawdling on the line even in the top classes, and it's only a matter of time before there's a high speed collision. It boggles my mind that race direction and the stewards can't sort this out. When on track, you're either riding at a competitive pace or you get off the track. There's a million ways they could address this, but they seem incapable. I hope it doesn't take the end of someone's career for them to start paying attention. My personal vote is also for a staggered start QP, max one rider out every five seconds or so, to eliminate the pit lane stupidity that is creeping in. Not quite superpole, but close. And if a rider is deemed to have gained an advantage by slipstream, the lap is chalked off, same as if they ride on the green. It's QP, not racing, and shouldn't be a measure of who is most brazen in sucking wheels.
- Teams: Find ways to discourage the situation we have with 8 Ducatis on the grid without explicitly limiting bikes per manufacturer. Dorna has been willing to fund teams and riders in the past, so perhaps they could throw some money at a team to push them towards a less well-represented brand. VR46 on a Yamaha in 2024 would be a good start...
It's gonna be a long winter...
The script meaning more the championship race. But yeah, lots of other stories.
My buddy and I were just talking over breakfast this morning about how the final-race championship decider often overshadows the actual winner, especially when the contenders finish further on down the order. Who talks about wild-card Bayliss winning Valencia in 2006, when all eyes were on Hayden and Rossi, back in 3rd and 13th?
In the spirit of doing something no one asked for, here are my rider rankings (like - if i were to start a team, here is who i would want on my bike)
Full disclosure, I am biased towards Italian riders (less so towards italian teams). But I am trying to be objective.
Class A - Championship Threats
Marc Marquez - I cannot remove him from Class A - not yet. Next year, we will be fully fit, so it will be telling. But for what it's worth, he outscored all his Honda peers, while missing a chunk of the season.
Fabio Quartararo - No explanation necessary I don't think
Pecco Bagnaia - I know some would argue he is not an A guy and had lots of help, but he won the most races and the championship.
Class B - Mutiple Race Winner Threat
Joan Mir - Maybe in class A? - next year beside MM will show his true worth as with PE this year
Jorge Martin - He is fast, but had low confidence this year - he should be a race winning threat
Alex Rins - Race winning threat - 2 wins on a bike this year that may not have been continually developed
Brad Binder - I find him to be the most enigmatic - he is fast, but it's hard to tell given the KTM performance the last few seasons.
Enea Bastianini - Maybe in class A? tempting as he was a multi-race winner on a year-old bike
Class C - Occasional Race Winner Threat
Aleix Espargaro - I know he won a race, and he's been the best aprilia rider, but I just don't think he is as good as those in class B
Franco Morbidelli - Yes, I know... he's been ****. But he won 3 races 2 seasons ago and finished 2nd in the championship. If you said class D, I'd understand.
Jack Miller - He is what he is. He is a race winning capable rider, but if there was a season to prove himself a championship contender, this was it.
Miguel Oliviera - I rate him, but he has been outscored by BB the last few years on the factory bike - he wins races though so...
Maverick Vinales - Similar to Morbidelli, but his performance was less starkly terrible than Morbidelli.
Raul Fernandez - This guy won 8 races in Moto2. Given both he and Gardner's performance on the Tech3 KTM, the bike was incredibly unflattering.
Marco Bezzecchi - Alhough Marini outscored him, Bezzecchi showed more race craft, and scored the best result for VR46
Class D - Occasional Podium Threat
Johann Zarco - Known commodity. Fast enough to mix it up, but has not won a race on the best bike. No wins in a long MotoGP career.
Pol Espargaro - Known commodity. He was ok at KTM but he really struggled on the Honda. No wins in a long MotoGP career.
Alex Marquez - he showed some moments of speed in his rookie year but has been a non-factor since. Next year will tell us if he has more speed in him on the rider-friendly Ducati.
Remy Gardner - probably an unfair score given he was the moto2 champion just last year and KTM essentially fired him 6 months in.
Taka Nakagami - Known commodity. He will fight for a podium occasionally.
Luca Marini - He was on the best bike but was the poorest performer on the GP22. He is an occasional podium fighter.
Fabio Di Giannantonio - Not much to say. Has a few moments of speed, but has been pretty invisible this year on a bike that has won races.
Darryn Binder - he was invisible this year - not entirely his fault. But he did not have a strong pedigree coming in.
Flame away...
Full disclosure, I am biased towards Italian riders (less so towards italian teams). But I am trying to be objective.
Class A - Championship Threats
Marc Marquez - I cannot remove him from Class A - not yet. Next year, we will be fully fit, so it will be telling. But for what it's worth, he outscored all his Honda peers, while missing a chunk of the season.
Fabio Quartararo - No explanation necessary I don't think
Pecco Bagnaia - I know some would argue he is not an A guy and had lots of help, but he won the most races and the championship.
Class B - Mutiple Race Winner Threat
Joan Mir - Maybe in class A? - next year beside MM will show his true worth as with PE this year
Jorge Martin - He is fast, but had low confidence this year - he should be a race winning threat
Alex Rins - Race winning threat - 2 wins on a bike this year that may not have been continually developed
Brad Binder - I find him to be the most enigmatic - he is fast, but it's hard to tell given the KTM performance the last few seasons.
Enea Bastianini - Maybe in class A? tempting as he was a multi-race winner on a year-old bike
Class C - Occasional Race Winner Threat
Aleix Espargaro - I know he won a race, and he's been the best aprilia rider, but I just don't think he is as good as those in class B
Franco Morbidelli - Yes, I know... he's been ****. But he won 3 races 2 seasons ago and finished 2nd in the championship. If you said class D, I'd understand.
Jack Miller - He is what he is. He is a race winning capable rider, but if there was a season to prove himself a championship contender, this was it.
Miguel Oliviera - I rate him, but he has been outscored by BB the last few years on the factory bike - he wins races though so...
Maverick Vinales - Similar to Morbidelli, but his performance was less starkly terrible than Morbidelli.
Raul Fernandez - This guy won 8 races in Moto2. Given both he and Gardner's performance on the Tech3 KTM, the bike was incredibly unflattering.
Marco Bezzecchi - Alhough Marini outscored him, Bezzecchi showed more race craft, and scored the best result for VR46
Class D - Occasional Podium Threat
Johann Zarco - Known commodity. Fast enough to mix it up, but has not won a race on the best bike. No wins in a long MotoGP career.
Pol Espargaro - Known commodity. He was ok at KTM but he really struggled on the Honda. No wins in a long MotoGP career.
Alex Marquez - he showed some moments of speed in his rookie year but has been a non-factor since. Next year will tell us if he has more speed in him on the rider-friendly Ducati.
Remy Gardner - probably an unfair score given he was the moto2 champion just last year and KTM essentially fired him 6 months in.
Taka Nakagami - Known commodity. He will fight for a podium occasionally.
Luca Marini - He was on the best bike but was the poorest performer on the GP22. He is an occasional podium fighter.
Fabio Di Giannantonio - Not much to say. Has a few moments of speed, but has been pretty invisible this year on a bike that has won races.
Darryn Binder - he was invisible this year - not entirely his fault. But he did not have a strong pedigree coming in.
Flame away...
TK4
Well-known member
99 Seconds: by Jorge
Ola, campesinos! It is your old camarada Jorge Lorenzo, taking a short break from his spectacular life to bring you some expert insider MotoGP information....
