2022 MotoGP Discussion (No Links - Contains Spoilers!)
- Thread starter Chaos
- Start date
Mechanicals were the story of the day. Again, lots of other stories during this race. Entertaining!
Remind anyone of Ferrari in F1?
Priller
Well-known member
It really is amazing how Ducati struggles to put together a whole season for one rider. At a certain point, Gigi's obsession with improving the bike has to give way to helping the rider.
I almost feel like Aleix has had more weird errors costing big points, though. The last lap mistake at Catalunya, the borked bike this time, a few other odds and ends, all lost points that have nothing to do with the speed of the bike or his riding. He's finally faster than both Fabio and Pecco, and just can't capitalize.
Bagnaia had me fooled. He's clearly a different rider when the stakes are high, much more prone to unforced errors. Not an ideal trait in someone chasing a championship. He's still in it, though, as the Yamaha is weak compared to the Ducati. He's also lucky that Fabio was down in the standings and didn't punish him that much.
It feels like Pecco needs lots of seat time to get the most out of the bike. That won't help next year with the sprint races...
I hate to use this term, but Bagnaia is not an 'alien'. Truthfully, the only alien in the grid is Marquez, and even that's mostly reputational now because of all his injuries - next year will be interesting. Is Quartararo an alien? I think he's the closest thing we have to one on the grid now.
IMO, alien status is conferred when you're lapping close to a full second faster than the rest of the field on similar equipment.
In their heyday, the Big Four were consistently finishing 20-25 seconds ahead of the non-aliens while still battling it out with each other at the front. That kind of margin is astounding when you look at typical qualifying times these days, and the top ten are separated by merely two or three-tenths of a second.
Extra alien points for winning multiple premiere class championship on different bikes from different manufacturers. This is where I think Stoner was the more natural talent than Rossi, who always needed a year of adjustment (125->250->500) before he started winning.
Priller
Well-known member
Impossible these days. 'Alien' status really meant getting a factory Honda or Yamaha ride in an era when those two outspent everyone else on an exponential level, which consequently conferred a lot of tire selection advantages and huge testing and support budgets. The only anomaly was Stoner on a Ducati. The playing field is a lot more level these days, plus I think the average quality of riders is much, much higher. There were some serious backmarker grid-fillers in those days, but now the closest you get is someone like Alex Marquez, a double world champion. The fact that Remi Gardner, 2021 Moto2 world champion, can't get a ride tells you just how packed the grid is...
Back in those good ole days, HRC and Yamaha employed plenty of riders who were unable to capitalize on factory machinery as much as their alien team-mates did. ie: Dovi, Spies, Hayden (not the best example, I know).
You could argue that development may have centered around their #1 rider (definitely the case for Pedro), but IMO, those four definitely had something special above and beyond bulging factory budgets.
You could argue that development may have centered around their #1 rider (definitely the case for Pedro), but IMO, those four definitely had something special above and beyond bulging factory budgets.
Winales_2017
Well-known member
Solid display by Marc, it's looking like his recovery time line is coming together; I'm glad he didn't rush it this time. Those saves in qualy were insane and he he went fastest in Q1!
I missed this so much.
What about Zarco's last lap pace?
www.crash.net
I missed this so much.
What about Zarco's last lap pace?
Zarco was “playing the game - thinking of Ducati contract!”
Johann Zarco “tempered his aggression” rather than trying to overtake Ducati teammate Francesco Bagnaia at the Thailand MotoGP, says BT Sport’s Michael Laverty.
www.crash.net
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Priller
Well-known member
Marc is definitely going to be a factor again in 2023, though I'm really hoping it'll be to fight for the championship, not own it by halfway. I've really enjoyed these last couple years (2020 was a mess), with Fabio trying to hold off the Ducati horde via an incredible connection with his front wheel. The only thing I hope we don't see is some of Marc's worst tendencies towards being an arsehole on track, especially during QP.
As for Thailand, talk about a rollercoaster season. Every time I write Pecco off, Quartararo and/or Yamaha find a way to let him back into the fight. It's basically back to zero for three races, with a huge question mark around whether Yamaha can keep hold of their success at Philip Island and Sepang, as Ducati will definitely dominate Valencia with all its stop/start corners. Add the possibility of Miller or Bastianini grabbing the lead if Fabio and Pecco get too conservative to avoid any DNF's, and it will be super high pressure. Absolutely love it.
I'd love to include Aleix as a true title contender, but I think that ship has sailed. The Ducati has improved to such an extent that I just don't see Aprilia beating enough of them for Aleix to make back the deficit. Maybe if Philip Island and Sepang go well, but that's a truly long shot. It's been a fun year, though, and hopefully Aprilia continues their upward trajectory into next season with the Yamaha and Honda both likely to improve massively.
Zarco clearly knows who butters his bread, and made the decision to put his career prospects ahead of chasing a podium. If he had more laps for the win, it might've been different, but I don't begrudge his choice. Alex Briggs had some interesting thoughts on rain tire pressures on Twitter that explained the rise and fall off different riders as the track dried. Essentially he said that wets need higher pressure when there's standing water on the track to keep the tread blocks apart and shed water. But as the track dried, those higher pressures hinder grip, as the tire can't widen its contact patch. Also, as the tire gets hotter, the pressures rise even further. This explains why Zarco struggled so much early on, but then was flying through the field as things dried...
Bring on Australia. Can't bloody wait.
As for Thailand, talk about a rollercoaster season. Every time I write Pecco off, Quartararo and/or Yamaha find a way to let him back into the fight. It's basically back to zero for three races, with a huge question mark around whether Yamaha can keep hold of their success at Philip Island and Sepang, as Ducati will definitely dominate Valencia with all its stop/start corners. Add the possibility of Miller or Bastianini grabbing the lead if Fabio and Pecco get too conservative to avoid any DNF's, and it will be super high pressure. Absolutely love it.
I'd love to include Aleix as a true title contender, but I think that ship has sailed. The Ducati has improved to such an extent that I just don't see Aprilia beating enough of them for Aleix to make back the deficit. Maybe if Philip Island and Sepang go well, but that's a truly long shot. It's been a fun year, though, and hopefully Aprilia continues their upward trajectory into next season with the Yamaha and Honda both likely to improve massively.
Zarco clearly knows who butters his bread, and made the decision to put his career prospects ahead of chasing a podium. If he had more laps for the win, it might've been different, but I don't begrudge his choice. Alex Briggs had some interesting thoughts on rain tire pressures on Twitter that explained the rise and fall off different riders as the track dried. Essentially he said that wets need higher pressure when there's standing water on the track to keep the tread blocks apart and shed water. But as the track dried, those higher pressures hinder grip, as the tire can't widen its contact patch. Also, as the tire gets hotter, the pressures rise even further. This explains why Zarco struggled so much early on, but then was flying through the field as things dried...
Bring on Australia. Can't bloody wait.
Have to agree with that, it looks like Aleix is only in with an outside chance now.
If Aprilla hadn't completely dropped the ball in Motegi we'd be shaping up for an epic final three rounds with all three of them pretty much neck and neck.
Priller
Well-known member
Or if Aleix hadn't dropped 9 points by misreading the track counter at Catalunya.
They've had chances to capitalize on the weakness of others, but haven't been able to stick the knife in. There was one other race, can't remember which, where he was fast all weekend but dropped in the race. He said he got a duff tire, but who knows...
I just hope they stay at the sharp end for a while.
Priller
Well-known member
Wow. Just wow.
Funny how the racing at the old flowing tracks ends up being great, while the new F1 tracks with the stop-go layouts are so much worse. Bring back Brno, too. Kazakhstan and India are gonna suck if the tracks are the usual modern Tilke garbage.
Rins amazing, Marc looking great and will be back next year, Pecco with a title-winning ride, Aleix showing the Aprilia isn't quite there against the Ducati horde, Fabio cracking under pressure. Heartbreaking for Miller, too.
Can't see Quartararo coming back from this considering Valencia is pure Ducati stop-go, so I'll be surprised if anyone else breaks in to the top six. Unless Bagnaia has a DNF, the title is his. Hoping Aleix and Aprilia at least go down fighting in Malaysia, a track they know and where they did well in testing.
Ban ride height devices now.
Funny how the racing at the old flowing tracks ends up being great, while the new F1 tracks with the stop-go layouts are so much worse. Bring back Brno, too. Kazakhstan and India are gonna suck if the tracks are the usual modern Tilke garbage.
Rins amazing, Marc looking great and will be back next year, Pecco with a title-winning ride, Aleix showing the Aprilia isn't quite there against the Ducati horde, Fabio cracking under pressure. Heartbreaking for Miller, too.
Can't see Quartararo coming back from this considering Valencia is pure Ducati stop-go, so I'll be surprised if anyone else breaks in to the top six. Unless Bagnaia has a DNF, the title is his. Hoping Aleix and Aprilia at least go down fighting in Malaysia, a track they know and where they did well in testing.
Ban ride height devices now.
What a great race. I can easily still see Bags DNFing a race so nothing is locked up by any means.
I'd love to see Esp get at least a 2nd place in the championship.
I'd love to see Esp get at least a 2nd place in the championship.
Nice close racing with the lead group all staying in contention till the very last lap. I love it!
When Alex Marquez clattered into Miller, I thought, "Man, they gotta fly that man outta the country ASAP. He's so gonna be assassinated before he even leaves the paddock."
No surprise that Quatararo's mistakes were all made on the brakes. When you're suffering such a horsepower deficit, you gotta make it up either on the brakes or on corner speed. He's doing his best trying to make lemonade out of horse manure.
When Alex Marquez clattered into Miller, I thought, "Man, they gotta fly that man outta the country ASAP. He's so gonna be assassinated before he even leaves the paddock."
No surprise that Quatararo's mistakes were all made on the brakes. When you're suffering such a horsepower deficit, you gotta make it up either on the brakes or on corner speed. He's doing his best trying to make lemonade out of horse manure.
Winales_2017
Well-known member
Race of the season TBH, it was griping all the way to the end.
And for once, I think we are entirely on consensus, I think it will be a 'Peco's bike won' championship, but for Duati it wo'nt matter after all these years and the obscene amount of money VAG threw at MotoGP.
And did I hear that right that D. Tardozzi is stepping down?
Fabio looks defeated since Thailand, where I had predited he would have won his championship had he kept his lead due to the inconsistency of all other riders. It sucks for Yamaha since they are pretty much scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of development, and as the only inline 4 left next year they may have to give into the V4 just to maintain relevance. Which sucks because it always had a noticeable and distinguishable growl to the rest of the bike son the grid, even the Suzuki never sounded as aggressive.
And yes, the ride devices are just not worth it, the lap times are coming down but their are just too many things going on and with all the rider aids it feels like the sport siding to strongly with the tech and less with the rider input. I get this is prototype racing, and has to push the envelope but this and the aero have made things way to biased toward one side.
It would probably be the highlight of his entire career, but ultimately no one cares about who came in 2nd so it does't matter much, except getting an invite to the gala after Valencia, which would be a photo OP for his family but since Amazon scrapped the doumentary series in favour of making one on Marc's comeback than it will be an uneventful thing in the end. It's just reality.
Let me prove it: I know Mav has been there several times, and I still don't car enough to know what years.
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