New Riders...Start with a smaller bike!

[GreyGhost]

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I don't know how guys don't get bored riding a machine designed to go 300 kph within legal limits. Even on my 125 I'm always risking my license in the city and am at or above 140 kph on the highway. I can't imagine how slow a supersport would feel. That's why I downgraded. Got tired of trying so hard to not speed. And the 650R I had isn't exactly a performance machine.

That's my problem with 600SS. They really hate going slowly, they surge and buck and don't settle down until well above legal speeds. At 150+ I really like 600ss. I actually prefer 1000 to 600 as you can be lazy and ride the torque if you want to take it easy.

This is part of the reason I took a break from bikes and bought an old slow(ish) car. It's not quite as much fun but I am much less likely to get a 172 charge. On almost every bike, by the time you get your heart rate up, you are well within 172 territory.

 

[unL33T]

That's my problem with 600SS. They really hate going slowly, they surge and buck and don't settle down until well above legal speeds. At 150+ I really like 600ss. I actually prefer 1000 to 600 as you can be lazy and ride the torque if you want to take it easy.

This is part of the reason I took a break from bikes and bought an old slow(ish) car. It's not quite as much fun but I am much less likely to get a 172 charge. On almost every bike, by the time you get your heart rate up, you are well within 172 territory.

Oh yeah it applies to cars too. I just replaced my old Outlander with an X3 and I was convinced that despite having near double the HP the BMW was slower. No, turns out it's just so smooth and designed to go fast that anything under 150 feels like a casual stroll. Boring as hell to drive.

Now with a 30 year old car with bits falling off every drive is an adventure, haha.

 

[油井緋色]

And yes, I think "I'm that guy" who won't crash. Just like every other rider who gets on their bike, 600 or not.

So you're going to suck at riding forever?

You have a race replica motorcycle. The purpose of a supersport is to get around a circuit as fast as possible. When you push your own limits, sometimes you exceed them. When you do you will crash.

I've never met an experienced rider who thinks they "won't crash" on the street or the track. The ones that do are either newbies, or have an ego so large that when they do crash they'll develop identity issues and quit riding after crashing.

I don't know how guys don't get bored riding a machine designed to go 300 kph within legal limits. Even on my 125 I'm always risking my license in the city and am at or above 140 kph on the highway. I can't imagine how slow a supersport would feel. That's why I downgraded. Got tired of trying so hard to not speed. And the 650R I had isn't exactly a performance machine.

I have more fun in my fiancee's Yaris than I do with my RSV1000R on the street...which is why I'm going to sell it soon lol

 

[Blackfin]

I have more fun in my fiancee's Yaris than I do with my RSV1000R on the street...which is why I'm going to sell it soon lol

Then you are doing something wrong.

 

[油井緋色]

Then you are doing something wrong.

I agree, I'm not on the track with a track oriented bike. Instead I'm trying to merge onto the highway as fast as personally possible through a blind corner, potentially getting air time, and possibly collecting a car =P

Or, the far more common scenario, is getting blocked by a chain of cars riding their ****ing brakes at 50km/h.

There's no fun in riding a race bike within legal limits. There's also no fun pushing limits in an uncontrolled environment with no run off and traffic going multiple directions.

 

[Genesis]

So you're going to suck at riding forever?

You have a race replica motorcycle. The purpose of a supersport is to get around a circuit as fast as possible. When you push your own limits, sometimes you exceed them. When you do you will crash.

I've never met an experienced rider who thinks they "won't crash" on the street or the track. The ones that do are either newbies, or have an ego so large that when they do crash they'll develop identity issues and quit riding after crashing.



I have more fun in my fiancee's Yaris than I do with my RSV1000R on the street...which is why I'm going to sell it soon lol

Why would I suck at riding forever?
I don't get it. In reality, I'm making noticable progression. I guess they call this cognitive dissonance.

And you are interpreting what I'm saying incorrectly. I didn't say that I do not recognize the possibility of crashing. Actually, in some ways, my possibility of crashing was alot higher than many other riders up until recently.

I stressed that the average rider has a healthy dose of confidence that they will reach their destination safely and not crash. That's not an ego thing. No different than driving a car. A driver leaves his/her house with the confidence that he will not bump or scratch another vehicle. It doesn't mean he doesn't recognize the possibility of it.

Also, I strongly disagree with your views on "newbies". Every "newbie" I know, (including myself at one point) is stricken with fear when the first start riding and actually believe they will/might crash on the way to their destination. They don't think they "won't crash". The fear places limitations on the rider. Sometimes that can be good, other times bad.

Sent from my Z957 using GTAMotorcycle.com mobile app

 

[meme]

Again, how long is minimal experience?

 

[Blackfin]

I agree, I'm not on the track with a track oriented bike. Instead I'm trying to merge onto the highway as fast as personally possible through a blind corner, potentially getting air time, and possibly collecting a car =P

I don't know why people think litre-bikes (or 600s or any other "supersport" or "sportsbike" for that matter) come with binary throttles. Perhaps it's that same thinking, those same people, that think because they have an RR they are obligated to kiss the mirrors and drag knees and weave through traffic on public roads, coz, "#racebike".

It's entirely possible to have beastly bike and very much enjoy it on the street without breaking the law (too badly.) I suspect folks that drive GT-Rs and Corvettes and 458 Italias and their ilk also think the same thing.

Why does it have to be an all or nothing thing? In a Yaris holding up traffic or breaking every rule on an RSV4? Those are the only two choices you see?

Or, the far more common scenario, is getting blocked by a chain of cars riding their ****ing brakes at 50km/h.

That's not fun in any vehicle. If you find it affecting your quality of life I suggest perhaps public transit or relocating. I often find myself leaving the Tuono or Fazer at home on a work day because I don't feel like sitting in traffic on it at the end of the day. But it's not like it's a barrel of laughs sitting in a car doing the same thing.

There's no fun in riding a race bike within legal limits.

Again with this thinking; all or nothing.

There are millions of people on two wheels -- riding everything from mopeds and Vespas to Goldwings and Harleys to S1KRRs and Hayabusas who ride within legal limits and love what they're doing.

I might change your quote to reflect the fact that an RR's ergonomics are more often the reason people don't have "fun" on them in the city rather than the inability to tap into the full performance potential at every roundabout.

There's also no fun pushing limits in an uncontrolled environment with no run off and traffic going multiple directions.

You shouldn't be "pushing the limits" on any public road.

If all or nothing and pushing the limits are the only aspects of motorcycling in which you find joy then, again, you're doing it wrong and, yeah, shouldn't be on public roads. Stay on the track.

 

[油井緋色]

Why would I suck at riding forever?
I don't get it. In reality, I'm making noticable progression. I guess they call this cognitive dissonance.

We're measuring skill with two totally different things.

Street riding, or operating any motor vehicle on the street, is really easy to quantify whether or not you are good as the bar is set super low. Did you get to your destination without crashing? Great, you've won.

Actual skill in operating a motorcycle, or car, on a technical level to its maximum theoretical capacity is totally different and involves crashing along the learning journey. A rider who has read books, taken additional lessons, and crashed trying to learn something is far more experienced than some guy who's never pushed limits, and therefore, has never crashed in that scenario.

We learn most through our mistakes, not our successes. Hell, even my most silly mistake taught me to not roll over pinecones.

So if you bought a supersport bike, and you don't ever plan on pushing limits, you suck at riding. If you bought a supersport before learning the fundamentals to push limits...well, that's another problem isn't it? =P

I don't know why people think litre-bikes (or 600s or any other "supersport" or "sportsbike" for that matter) come with binary throttles. Perhaps it's that same thinking, those same people, that think because they have an RR they are obligated to kiss the mirrors and drag knees and weave through traffic on public roads, coz, "#racebike".

Okay, let me explain it in a way that others seem to get:

Riding a supersport/superbike slow is like having a hot girl friend you aren't allowed to ****.

I'd rather have a standard bike.

 

[unL33T]

Then you are doing something wrong.

I borrowed my Dad's Echo for 3 days recently. It was actually surprisingly enjoyable to drive in a bare bones go kart kind of way.

 

[Blackfin]

I borrowed my Dad's Echo for 3 days recently. It was actually surprisingly enjoyable to drive in a bare bones go kart kind of way.

If he's having more fun in a Yaris than on an RSV1KR I still say he's doing it wrong.

 

[BigEvilDoer]

And yes, I think "I'm that guy" who won't crash. Just like every other rider who gets on their bike, 600 or not.

Well, then you need to give your head a shake. Hard.
Whenever I teach the classroom part of the M2 course, I always ask the class - usually in the Wear Your Gear segment, "Who here has been in a motor vehicle accident? I don't care if it was your fault, not your fault, or even if you simply were in the vehicle when it happened."
On average 9/10 people raise their hand.
Then I go on to ask, "Who here planned on getting into an accident that day?" -- All hands drop immediately. "Nobody in their right mind plans on having a crash. But it happens...."

Every time you get on your bike or in your car there's a chance of a motor vehicle accident. Some people are lucky, others aren't.

 

[Genesis]

Well, then you need to give your head a shake. Hard.
Whenever I teach the classroom part of the M2 course, I always ask the class - usually in the Wear Your Gear segment, "Who here has been in a motor vehicle accident? I don't care if it was your fault, not your fault, or even if you simply were in the vehicle when it happened."
On average 9/10 people raise their hand.
Then I go on to ask, "Who here planned on getting into an accident that day?" -- All hands drop immediately. "Nobody in their right mind plans on having a crash. But it happens...."

Every time you get on your bike or in your car there's a chance of a motor vehicle accident. Some people are lucky, others aren't.

I specifically elaborated on that comment in the next response sir.

Not thinking I'll crash is not the same as not recognizing the danger and possibility of it. Please read my comments after that.

Sent from my Z957 using GTAMotorcycle.com mobile app

 

[Joe Bass]

If he's having more fun in a Yaris than on an RSV1KR I still say he's doing it wrong.

All this time I thought he was talking about the BACK SEAT of the Yaris

sent from my Purple LGG4 on the GTAM app

 

[油井緋色]

All this time I thought he was talking about the BACK SEAT of the Yaris

sent from my Purple LGG4 on the GTAM app

I might be Asian, but I'm not a midget.

 

[BigEvilDoer]

I specifically elaborated on that comment in the next response sir.

Not thinking I'll crash is not the same as not recognizing the danger and possibility of it. Please read my comments after that.

Ah. Replied before I read the rest of the thread - apologies.
I see you say, " Actually, in some ways, my possibility of crashing was alot higher than many other riders up until recently."
What did you recently to reduce your possibility of crashing? Riding less, less speed, different bike, different crew, etc?
Just curious.

 

[Blackfin]

Riding a supersport/superbike slow is like having a hot girl friend you aren't allowed to ****.

I'd rather have a 250/300/500.

Except that you can **** her brains out if you take her on a date: participate in a few track days. And when you're not ****ing her senseless on city streets she's giving you glorious "service" by being sexy, naughty sometimes (out in the country when it's just you and her...), making all the right sounds, being the object of desire of others, getting looks and, yes, making you smile and laugh even when you're not balls-deep.

How many guys go back out to the garage after a ride and wipe the bike down with detailer, digging the bugs out of the fairing and wiping the brake dust off the wheels and listening to the hot metal tink-tink as it cools and then stand back and admire their steed? As I do that to the Aprilia I often marvel at the beauty and artwork on this bike; little things like the shifter and brake levers are sculpture; the welds industrial artwork. It seems like none of that sort of thing means anything to you and that you're somehow missing a huge part of the passion of motorcycling. You see it only as a game of limits, all or nothing; if you can't push your machine to -- and beyond -- its limits it's not worth it.

I've never come across a guy who has said that driving a Toyota Yaris is more "fun" than an RSV1000R. That has to be some sort of first.

 

[油井緋色]

I've never come across a guy who has said that driving a Toyota Yaris is more "fun" than an RSV1000R. That has to be some sort of first.

This is going to go greatly off topic now lol

I get your point of view. At some point during my journey of trying to become a faster rider, I think I forgot to have fun lol Thanks for the insight and reminder.

But, I still hate Aprilia. The reliability on this thing has been pretty ****** compared to my old GSXR.

 

[Blackfin]

This is going to go greatly off topic now lol

I get your point of view. At some point during my journey of trying to become a faster rider, I think I forgot to have fun lol Thanks for the insight and reminder.

And perhaps I'm still glossy-eyed having returned to the sport only a few years ago. Cheers!

But, I still hate Aprilia. The reliability on this thing has been pretty ****** compared to my old GSXR.

Yeah, I've read some pretty nasty stuff about earlier models and stators and cylinder head woes etc. I almost went a different direction because of what I'd read. But damn...the 17 TV4F is ****ing gorgeous to ride and look at. I think they've sorted out a good deal of their reliability woes with the 1100s but who knows?

 

[PrivatePilot]

Genesis, sorry to be blunt, but you are the typical overconfident newbie.

I've rode on and off for about 22 years now. My first real street bike was no slouch (a 900cc inline 4 making nearly 100HP was quite respectable in the 80's)) and despite growing up riding anything and everything on 2 wheels even before I was legal for the street (I spent a lot of time in the dirt and offroad) my first streetbike was quite a step up.

My first ever bike was a 70's CT70 and I had quite a few after that, slowly graduating up through the CC's until I was on my old mans old Suzuki 750-something. I took the time to learn gradually - I had plenty of experience and know how, but even that wasn't enough - admittedly, my choice of a first bike (a vertiable bear compared to today's supersports, even) was too big of a leap.

Like yourself I thought I was invincible. Crashes happen to other people. I can handle this thing.

And I did. Until one day I didn't - something happened (no, I was not at fault, FWIW) that I would almost certainly have been able to avoid on a smaller, more nimble, and lighter bike. But the 900 sportbike I was riding was not that bike and I hadn't gained the skill on the road (with a big heavy powerful bike) to be able to avoid the wreck, despite it not being my fault.

I have the scars on my neck (about 50 stitches) to show for it - anyone who ever meets me is welcome to see them. I rode for years after that with a very healthy dose of humility, and when I came back to riding a few years ago I decided to swallow my pride and I took the MSC as a refresher. Yeah, I was one of the most experienced riders there, but even then...I learned things. I value what I learned at the course and am not afraid to admit it.

Now, I ride between 15,000 to 20,000KM per season and I still keep that humility and acceptance of the fact that I am neither perfect nor invincible firmly in the back of my head. That's not to say I'm not a confident rider - I am very much so, but I'm also not overconfident, which is the mistake that many make. And some day, that bites you in the ***.

Yes, I now ride like I am invisible. My safety is in MY hands, what others lend towards that is a bonus. I am keenly aware of the limits of my bike and I know that I need to ride within them.

I was lucky that I walked away from that first wreck after an ambulance ride, a bunch of stitches, and a cast for a broken wrist. I know it could have been much worse for me, and often is for others. I have never crashed since, knock on wood.

Do as you wish, but take it from someone who was there - you are not invincible, and your choice of bike could be the difference between that happening sooner vs later. Others have laid out the reasoning for that across various posts here which you just want to discount over and over again.

How many guys go back out to the garage after a ride and wipe the bike down with detailer, digging the bugs out of the fairing and wiping the brake dust off the wheels and listening to the hot metal tink-tink as it cools and then stand back and admire their steed?

Not I. I ride the wheels off my bike, but it is a busy bike, not a show bike, and it's less than sparkling clean most of the time. Yeah, I wash it and wipe it down reasonably routinely, but I'm also not afraid to ride down a dirt road, in the rain, or have bugs stuck here and there. Spending time keeping it showroom sparkling all the time is wasted riding time in my mind.

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