Then perhaps you should try to 'dispel' some of that misinformation, rather than just kibitzing?
Trick to triggering red lights
- Thread starter Dayao12
- Start date
Then perhaps you should try to 'dispel' some of that misinformation, rather than just kibitzing?
Griffin
Well-known member
I'm not "kibitzing" (at least I don't think so, but then, I have no idea what that means so maybe I am...).
I try not to make definitive statements unless I know what I'm talking about. I also don't want to argue with people about something I'm not certain of. However, I do UNDERSTAND from what I've read from others that the sensors are electro-magneticaly triggered and have nothing to do with weight.
The point of my comment was that if you are not CERTAIN of what you speak, shut the hell up. Telling people that the law allows you to do something or does not allow you to do something or that traffic light sensors work this way or that way when you don't KNOW is NOT HELPFUL. It is potentially harmful.
Now, for what I believe:
Traffic lights are controlled by induction loops that are not affected by spinning your starter or dropping your kick stand or attaching a magnet to your bike.
If you blow through a red light or get off your bike to push the walk button and a cop is nearby you stand a good chance of getting a ticket.
But this information really isn't helpful because I AM NOT CERTAIN. Me trying to dispel misinformation in this thread is not possible. But, we have people definitively saying opposite things with complete conviction that they're correct. That's my point.
For the record kibitzing is sitting back, during a conversation, and tossing out unwanted or unhelpful comments.
Doing something that is not illegal, under the law or under precedent, does not guarantee that you won't get a ticket. What it does, is give you a method of having that ticket quashed in court. You could be riding along at the speed limit, on a straight stretch of road with no stop lights or signs, and an officer could ticket you for speeding because he incorrectly assumed what the limit was. It happens. Because information doesn't stop you from being ticketed, that doesn't imply that the information is incorrect.
No one condoned "blowing through a red light." The statements made were that if the light fails to detect your presence and change, then it can be treated like a defective signal. Defective signals are treated as four-way stops, by law. Proceeding cautiously, after having been stopped for a reasonable length of time, is a valid option. As stated it won't stop you from being ticketed, but it is a valid defence in court.
Doing something that is not illegal, under the law or under precedent, does not guarantee that you won't get a ticket. What it does, is give you a method of having that ticket quashed in court. You could be riding along at the speed limit, on a straight stretch of road with no stop lights or signs, and an officer could ticket you for speeding because he incorrectly assumed what the limit was. It happens. Because information doesn't stop you from being ticketed, that doesn't imply that the information is incorrect.
No one condoned "blowing through a red light." The statements made were that if the light fails to detect your presence and change, then it can be treated like a defective signal. Defective signals are treated as four-way stops, by law. Proceeding cautiously, after having been stopped for a reasonable length of time, is a valid option. As stated it won't stop you from being ticketed, but it is a valid defence in court.
DarylinAjax
Well-known member
I read in another post that some states in the US have amended their laws making it legal for motorcycles to treat a stop light as a stop sign after a certain amount of time has passed.
Does anyone have any details of which states this is and how long the delay is before it is legal for the rider to proceed against the red light?
I've written a letter to the Minister of Transportation requesting they amend Ontario's "stop light" laws and got a "no way in hell is that going to happen here" sort of response from some Director at the MTO. In my rebuttal to him I would like to be able to refer to where in North America this is allowed. The MTO is claiming that it would be unsafe so I have asked for them to do a study rather than just deem it unsafe without any data to back it up.
TIA,
Daryl
Does anyone have any details of which states this is and how long the delay is before it is legal for the rider to proceed against the red light?
I've written a letter to the Minister of Transportation requesting they amend Ontario's "stop light" laws and got a "no way in hell is that going to happen here" sort of response from some Director at the MTO. In my rebuttal to him I would like to be able to refer to where in North America this is allowed. The MTO is claiming that it would be unsafe so I have asked for them to do a study rather than just deem it unsafe without any data to back it up.
TIA,
Daryl
Splash
Well-known member
Coming into the city from Newmarket every day this happens to me a lot where I get stuck. It happened to me tonight with the GTA photo tag target too. The key to pressing the button legally is part c. (or was it b) where it states that it's okay to "park/stop" the vehicle if it is visible for 125 m. Show me how your bike is not visible from 125m and I'll agree you're screwed at that intersection. In the case of where I took tonights tag, my bike was clearly visibly from 125m in every direction. 3 cars when right over the loop sensor to turn right and the light did it's crosswalk countdown - then set back to walk again!!! At that point I put the bike in neutral, ensured the flasher was indeed on and working to draw attention to it, dropped the kickstand (it landed RIGHT BESIDE the loop), then dismounted, hit the pedestrian cross button, and walked back to my bike. Lo and behold I had time to mount, pick up the stand, and drop to first all before the count down was complete. I neither impeded traffic, nor broke the no stopping on the street law due to the vehicle being clearly visible. My bike DOES NOT have 4 way flashers so I use the flasher to the closest curb. In this case the left turn island.
At intersections where a car pulls up behind me and stays off the sensor, I wait a few seconds. If they don't get impatient and pull forward a bit, I'll wave them closer.
I had an elderly couple who mis-interpreted this and pulled alongside me and rolled down their window assuming I wanted to say something. I explained to them that my bike wasn't tripping the light and I need them to get in the loop to do so. We all laughed, the light changed and the elderly gentlemen wished me well on my journeys and waited for me to pull off.
The key really lies in too places: communication and common sense. If you blow the light just as a cop comes into view, he's going to tag you and you're going to have a much longer wait than that light was giving you. You'll have to talk your way out of it. If he sees you off your bike but it's in clear view and STILL decides to pull you over, then it'll be a much shorter conversation when you explain to him/her that you waited (for at least 1 or two complete walk/don't walk cycles), before "roadside stopping in lane" your bike in order to trigger the obviously insensitive light. It'll be easier to fight a dismount than a run red. You appear much less in a hurry when you do it.
At intersections where a car pulls up behind me and stays off the sensor, I wait a few seconds. If they don't get impatient and pull forward a bit, I'll wave them closer.
I had an elderly couple who mis-interpreted this and pulled alongside me and rolled down their window assuming I wanted to say something. I explained to them that my bike wasn't tripping the light and I need them to get in the loop to do so. We all laughed, the light changed and the elderly gentlemen wished me well on my journeys and waited for me to pull off.
The key really lies in too places: communication and common sense. If you blow the light just as a cop comes into view, he's going to tag you and you're going to have a much longer wait than that light was giving you. You'll have to talk your way out of it. If he sees you off your bike but it's in clear view and STILL decides to pull you over, then it'll be a much shorter conversation when you explain to him/her that you waited (for at least 1 or two complete walk/don't walk cycles), before "roadside stopping in lane" your bike in order to trigger the obviously insensitive light. It'll be easier to fight a dismount than a run red. You appear much less in a hurry when you do it.
insert
Well-known member
for the magnetic sensor to pick it up it has to be a kickstand made of ferrous metal... so ss riders, dont get too hyped, most (if not all) ss bikes have aluminum kick stands.
SXE MX6
Well-known member
5 minutes?? bahahahha.... wow......
thats way too long IMO
There's a couple different options:
-wait 30 seconds (if there is no traffic around) treat the red as defective and go.
-turn right, make a u-turn and proceed.
-get off and push crosswalk sign
Unless your being a dick, or riding like an idiot, no cop is going to give you a ticket. Cops arn't stupid, if you do get pulled over and explain why you did what you did, your chance of getting a ticket would be pretty slim.
Or, you could just roll up to the red look both ways and proceed without stopping to being with so your not waisting anytime.
your chance's of getting a ticket from a cop seeing you do that are rasied slightly though.........
Intersections in the GTA are now being outfitted with sensors for bicycles which encounter the same problem (if they bother to stop!)...the sensors consist of 3 white circles painted on the right side of the lane (near the curb)...look for them and stop on them and that'll trigger the lights.
If they're not there I typically make a right and a u-turn, or run the red after 2-3 cycles, or if I know about a trouble intersection I just avoid it if possible.
If they're not there I typically make a right and a u-turn, or run the red after 2-3 cycles, or if I know about a trouble intersection I just avoid it if possible.
Some people get all worked up that u turns/pushing buttons/running the light is illegal. Realistically if you do your best to do any of the three as safely and legally as is realistically possible, in my experience most cops aren't going to ticket you for stuff like that.
You might get the random one who's in a bad mood or has to hit his quota, but most of the time, if you tell them you waited for a few minutes and took the option that seemed safest to you, he/she might give you a warning that they want you to do it differently next time, but they're not going to ticket you. It's a deficiency in city property and there is no specific procedure they teach us to deal with it so it's not unreasonable for riders to improvise a solution.
You might get the random one who's in a bad mood or has to hit his quota, but most of the time, if you tell them you waited for a few minutes and took the option that seemed safest to you, he/she might give you a warning that they want you to do it differently next time, but they're not going to ticket you. It's a deficiency in city property and there is no specific procedure they teach us to deal with it so it's not unreasonable for riders to improvise a solution.
If you have difficulty with a particular light, on a frequent basis, then it's a good idea to report it to the city. At least then if you actually do get a ticket, you'll be able to obtain evidence that you did all that you could, to have the 'defective' light 'repaired.'
The kickstand on my bike appears to be steel but I admit I don't know. I tried this yesterday and when it didn't work I ran the red as usual.
FriendlyFoe
Well-known member
So wait are they all magnetic or do we use a mix of that and weight sensors? I've had a light not change (like the cross walk switching to flashing dont walk, then back to walk) sitting in a tractor trailer at a light. Now thats a piss off lol
They use a phase locked loop frequency detector rig. The metal of a vehicle alters the frequency of you signal created by the loop in the asphalt. That is compared to a base frequency and the difference is read as a voltage. When the voltage hits a certain level, it trips the light. The voltage at which this happens can be adjusted, making the loop more or less sensitive. They don't use weight.
All you never wanted to know about traffic signals, in one paragraph.
It depends on how sensitive the loop sensor is. When I worked in a parking lot, back in college, I used to test them with my steel toe/shank boots. I'd set them to just above the point where my boots would set off the loop.
If a bike isn't setting it off, then a small piece of steel isn't likely to, though ferrous metal would have a better chance.
iegod
Well-known member
A police officer will not issue you a parking ticket.
A parking enforcement officer will not be able to get to you in time.
I think you're fine.
I for one am not getting off my bike to push the button ever. Wait 20-30 sec no sign of a light change check for POPO and traffic and I am gone.
