Even calling it a street version of a motoGP bike is a BIG stretch.
Holly ****!!!!!!
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Even calling it a street version of a motoGP bike is a BIG stretch.
Does the road version have a carbon frame?
I never suggested that either.
Claiming that the Desmo is a motoGP bike with lights is like saying an Enzo is an F1 car with lights.
An enzo isnt an open wheel car. Let's argue semantics some more.
I said it was a street version of the GP bike. That doesn't translate to 'GP bike with lights'. Obviously it's a production motorcycle so tons of the awesome and expensive tech didn't make the transfer, but lots did. I've never ridden it but judging from reviews it rides completely unlike other super sports, so it's not just any bike.
I think calling it a street version of a GP bike is apt.
I said it was a street version of the GP bike. That doesn't translate to 'GP bike with lights'. Obviously it's a production motorcycle so tons of the awesome and expensive tech didn't make the transfer, but lots did. I've never ridden it but judging from reviews it rides completely unlike other super sports, so it's not just any bike.
I think calling it a street version of a GP bike is apt.
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Great counter point
If you think you can buy something even remotely similar to a motoGP bike for $80G you're retarded. WSBK builds are significantly north of $100K.
Great counter point
If you think you can buy something even remotely similar to a motoGP bike for $80G you're retarded. WSBK builds are significantly north of $100K.
What's "remotely similar"? Two wheels and an engine? This is a stupid argument now about semantics. Stop derailing the thread.
Ok buddy. Im really very truly sorry.
I missed this post lol.
Both bikes have a steel trellis frame and carbon subframe.
I'm thinking you think you know more than you really know. Go ahead and tell me which other bike I can find the Ducati v4 in too, please...to demonstrate how much this bike ISN'T a GP machine.
Re: Holly f***!!!!!!
There is nothing particularly impressive or difficult about those rearsets. They wouldn't even require a 5 axis mill.
There were probably twice as many 'man hours' in arguing about them than there were in man hours to model them in 3D, do a quick FEA analysis, generate a toolpath, run a simulation, clamp a piece of aluminum to the machine and actually hog out the rearsets.
A bit of deburring work, some glass bead blasting, and some anodizing and 'voila!'.
It's actually more economical in the long run to CNC them then it is to make patterns for casting them, since you need to have a person very experienced in aluminum casting to understanding how aluminum will shrink when cast, and to build a pattern that is 'oversized' in the appropriate areas to accomadate that. Factor in how many units you'll be making before the part becomes obsolete...
Plus, you can add the extra step of finish machining the bosses and holes, plus deburring, sanding, bead blasting, and anodizing of a cast part, to look as pretty as those.
After the tooling is made, the costs to manufacture aren't as much as people might think. There are lots of times the prototyping, tooling and parts manufacture are farmed out to other shops that manufacture for other competitors.
Bottom line, the carbon parts that are sold, are sold at a healthy profit, not at, or just above 'cost'.
They are priced like this because the market will bear it.
Simple as that.
Now, the best news is that for 10-20% of the price, you can have a bike that's arguably just as stylish, and almost just as good a performer, or in some rare cases, even better.
Ain't life G R A N D??!!
I like Ducati's, but they're not the 'be all, end all'. My neighbour just purchased an Aprilia RSV4 Factory a few months ago. I've never heard anything like it. I thought Duc's had 'The Sound', but the Aprilia is un ****** real! A soon as you put it in gear, it opens up to a virtual straight pipe exhaust (or something like that IIRC)
Actually, I do know plenty about CNC machining and carbon composites as I'm an industrial designer and my company does work in both.
There is nothing particularly impressive or difficult about those rearsets. They wouldn't even require a 5 axis mill.
There were probably twice as many 'man hours' in arguing about them than there were in man hours to model them in 3D, do a quick FEA analysis, generate a toolpath, run a simulation, clamp a piece of aluminum to the machine and actually hog out the rearsets.
A bit of deburring work, some glass bead blasting, and some anodizing and 'voila!'.
It's actually more economical in the long run to CNC them then it is to make patterns for casting them, since you need to have a person very experienced in aluminum casting to understanding how aluminum will shrink when cast, and to build a pattern that is 'oversized' in the appropriate areas to accomadate that. Factor in how many units you'll be making before the part becomes obsolete...
Plus, you can add the extra step of finish machining the bosses and holes, plus deburring, sanding, bead blasting, and anodizing of a cast part, to look as pretty as those.
Here the same holds true as far as how many man hours were involved arguing about the profiles till the final sign off and the final prototype was made in order to create the final tooling used to make the production parts.
After the tooling is made, the costs to manufacture aren't as much as people might think. There are lots of times the prototyping, tooling and parts manufacture are farmed out to other shops that manufacture for other competitors.
Bottom line, the carbon parts that are sold, are sold at a healthy profit, not at, or just above 'cost'.
Having said everything that I said, they are completely justified in selling these bikes for whatever they want. Just like the 'Chopper' builders. It's about exclusivity. It's not about 'bang for your buck'. They are a luxury.
They are priced like this because the market will bear it.
Simple as that.
Now, the best news is that for 10-20% of the price, you can have a bike that's arguably just as stylish, and almost just as good a performer, or in some rare cases, even better.
Ain't life G R A N D??!!
Re: Holly f***!!!!!!
Performance is definitely NOT the main appeal of this bike. You buy it for what it is (and represents), but it's not necessarily better than a normal production superbike. You get to feel like you're riding a GP bike on the street, and that's what the ultimate appeal is.
Performance is definitely NOT the main appeal of this bike. You buy it for what it is (and represents), but it's not necessarily better than a normal production superbike. You get to feel like you're riding a GP bike on the street, and that's what the ultimate appeal is.
Re: Holly f***!!!!!!
the aprilia and this ducati are both V4's so they might sound similar.
Making tooling for such a low volume bike would be quite expensive per unit.
the aprilia and this ducati are both V4's so they might sound similar.
Making tooling for such a low volume bike would be quite expensive per unit.
Looks like Ducati abandoned the steel trellis frame in 2006, so you are right.
http://www.gizmag.com/ducati-pataents-semi-monocoque-motogp-frame-for-roadbbikes/14285/picture/111207/
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I already made my point earlier on, but if this sort of thing interests you.... this month's Bike magazine is pretty good. There's articles about Bimota and they rank a bunch of 'exotic' or 'factory special' bikes.
To be honest, I didn't know this bike existed before this thread so thanks for starting it. The concept is amazing and I bet it rides really well, but it's in pipe dream land for me.
If I win the lottery, it'll have a garage spot next to my Gullwing, 959 and Bimota. Otherwise, will buy a used liter sportbike at some point and get 80% for 20%.
To be honest, I didn't know this bike existed before this thread so thanks for starting it. The concept is amazing and I bet it rides really well, but it's in pipe dream land for me.
If I win the lottery, it'll have a garage spot next to my Gullwing, 959 and Bimota. Otherwise, will buy a used liter sportbike at some point and get 80% for 20%.
A report from a rider who actually rode Stoner's winning GP machine, and has done some time with the Desmo:
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/101/2957/Motorcycle-Article/Ducati-Desmosedici-RR-Review.aspx
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/101/2957/Motorcycle-Article/Ducati-Desmosedici-RR-Review.aspx
Re: Holly f***!!!!!!
I think read that you can buy a replica Honda Repsol race bike for like $1 million?
I think read that you can buy a replica Honda Repsol race bike for like $1 million?
Re: Holly f***!!!!!!
You cannot buy a honda MotoGP bike.
The teams that race them are under lease agreements.
The bikes are returned and destroyed when they are no longer used, unless under specific circumstances(rider or team owner/employee requested the bike at season end for nostalgia purposes)
All HRC bikes were under this type of rules, even American Honda(AMA) was required to do this when HRC was providing the bikes/parts.
You cannot buy a honda MotoGP bike.
The teams that race them are under lease agreements.
The bikes are returned and destroyed when they are no longer used, unless under specific circumstances(rider or team owner/employee requested the bike at season end for nostalgia purposes)
All HRC bikes were under this type of rules, even American Honda(AMA) was required to do this when HRC was providing the bikes/parts.
Re: Holly f***!!!!!!
Quite correct, you can buy replicas and in the case of the Ducati a pretty tricked replica, but the real bikes are protected from prying eyes and rival engineers with tiny hands and little micrometers. Lots of ex racers own the bikes they rode to glory and a few are coming up for sale here and there, but they are 20yrs old and the "cant be sold" deal has expired.
Its not the unobtainium used to make the frame or engine bits, its the 15 different engineering companies subcontracted in design and electronics that drives the price per bike over the million dollar mark.
Quite correct, you can buy replicas and in the case of the Ducati a pretty tricked replica, but the real bikes are protected from prying eyes and rival engineers with tiny hands and little micrometers. Lots of ex racers own the bikes they rode to glory and a few are coming up for sale here and there, but they are 20yrs old and the "cant be sold" deal has expired.
Its not the unobtainium used to make the frame or engine bits, its the 15 different engineering companies subcontracted in design and electronics that drives the price per bike over the million dollar mark.
