Advantages and disadvantages of graduated licensing?

Forum Sponsor
I think you are missing the point. The reason that cc restrictions are flawed is that the size of the engine is not the only determining factor in the power of the bike. A 600cc supersport make 110+hp. A 600cc cruiser makes 40+hp. Any restriction based on cc's is just not the answer. If you have to restrict make the restriction based on power. In my many years of riding I have probably witnessed 30-40 crashes. None of these crashes had anything to do with power. All had to do with the inability to turn the motorcycle. Most of these were the result of the rider failing to negotiate a turn that was completely doable at the speed they were going....

That said, I think that training, not bike restrictions is the best way to have good riders. Real in depth, mandatory training. Training and testing should also be mandated throughout your entire riding career. Say
every 5 years or so.

Willys said:
Just because it's a cruiser, you still have all the same safety issues and power issues, plus cruisers are twice as heavy as most other machines, so now you add excess weight into the big scheme of things.
There is always someone who thinks because they ride a particualr machine that their machine style or discription doesn't fit into an overall system of liciencing...IMHO.....

Again, yes it's a hardship for some, but overall it's a win win for the whole biking community. Just think.....ins rates should fall as there will be less accidents dealing with riders...no?
Click to expand...
 
I agree with you but I also agree with cc sized restrictions just as your example showed......there is a huge difference between a cruiser's power output and a sportbike's output with a 600cc engine.
So, I vote for both training, time and cc restrictions.....it covers all bases at the same time....no-one is exempt....everyone is forced to the same standard....that way you can't climb the ladder on a cruiser and just one day decide, screw this slow crap and buy your litre bike and be overwhelmed......whether you are or not....you still would have the training and experience to do so if my voted way is in place....no?

Yes itis a hardship for those who already have a licience and didn't have to go through it, but for new ridiers who need to learn and experience the learning curve safely....it's a normal thing.
You are looking at it from the point of you having to go through it again, if you are already legal.....it doesn't effect you. Except to keep us safer on the streets from newbies who are overwhelmed by the power of their newly aquired litre bike the day they get their learners permit.
 
Agreed.....you got it you keep it, that is until you cause an accident from your riding driving mistake.....? Lets say if you do cause an accident where there is a large deal of damage or injury, you are sent back to school and maybe down a level...? Another thought to have in the back of your head when driving....might slow some down?
 
I remember reading in some jurisdictions they have a 33 HP (or some other number) limit for new riders. This seems very logical to me. M1 and M2 could have the 33 HP limit. This limit gets easier and easier to implement since new bikes are increasingly becoming throttle by wire, this is just a simple ECU program (this will allow the new riders to pose...). CC limits are a little silly since a 600 SS usually makes way more power than a 1200 cruiser.

To get the full M they should mandate the riders have their own bike (take the test on their bike) AND have two years of insured riding experience. This is no guarantee that the bike ever left the garage but it will help discourage riders from going with no insurance and at least we know they own a bike. No two years of insured riding (as the primary rider) no taking the exit test.

Simple answers are usually the best...
 
The G lic test is a joke.

The M2 and M test is too easy.

Regardless of HP or CC, no point in talking about introducing graduated licensing when there are too many unskilled folks operating motorised vehicles on our highways.

The whole system is a fail.
 
Englishj said:
The G lic test is a joke.

The M2 and M test is too easy.

Regardless of HP or CC, no point in talking about introducing graduated licensing when there are too many unskilled folks operating motorised vehicles on our highways.

The whole system is a fail.
Click to expand...

Exactly!

Gotta start from the ground up. A lot of drivers out there are a frigin disgrace and we can't blame just one problem. As I said in one of my earlier posts (I think...it's been a while), the only thing engine size restrictions (or even power restrictions) will do is shift the number of deaths from what we typically see to smaller, less powerful bikes.
 
Which is why we need to charge people for infractions that don't involve speed. You can make a lane change right in front of a cop these days, without signalling, knowing that you aren't going to get a ticket.
 
A friend of mine bought a Busa shortly after getting his license with little experience and had no problem whatsoever. Because he was 6'2", it fit him well. IMO, whether you're riding a scooter or a Busa, how can you possibly get into trouble if you're obeying the law and riding responsibly? If I want a Busa, I don't want government telling me I can't have it. If you feel government should restrict motorcycles by HP or CC's, maybe government should just ban motorcycles and be done with it. How else can we have government oppress and restrict our freedom? FFS! Sometimes I think people miss being parented. :rolleyes:
 
promac said:
A friend of mine bought a Busa shortly after getting his license with little experience and had no problem whatsoever. Because he was 6'2", it fit him well. IMO, whether you're riding a scooter or a Busa, how can you possibly get into trouble if you're obeying the law and riding responsibly? If I want a Busa, I don't want government telling me I can't have it. If you feel government should restrict motorcycles by HP or CC's, maybe government should just ban motorcycles and be done with it. How else can we have government oppress and restrict our freedom? FFS! Sometimes I think people miss being parented. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

has your friend ever shifted into 2nd gear per chance?

:D
 
My problem with people killing themselves or maiming themselves is that, well scratch killing themselves, that would be better, but injuring themselves and someone else is that it always works it's way to everyone else. As in healthcare costs, insurance costs, everything goes up, it's system that generates money from stupid people who shouldn't be allowed to operate a key let alone the machine it turns on!!!
If you want to kill yourself....go ahead, but please don't do it in a way that will effect my life....thanks.
 
Willys said:
My problem with people killing themselves or maiming themselves is that, well scratch killing themselves, that would be better, but injuring themselves and someone else is that it always works it's way to everyone else. As in healthcare costs, insurance costs, everything goes up, it's system that generates money from stupid people who shouldn't be allowed to operate a key let alone the machine it turns on!!!
If you want to kill yourself....go ahead, but please don't do it in a way that will effect my life....thanks.
Click to expand...

Then you'd best get to work on smokers, drinkers, skiiers....... All of them effect your life in that way far more than fellow motorcyclists do.
 
Agreed!

Maybe skis that explode on impact, cigs that explode and poison all drinks after the first one or two....?
 
Willys said:
My problem with people killing themselves or maiming themselves is that, well scratch killing themselves, that would be better, but injuring themselves and someone else is that it always works it's way to everyone else. As in healthcare costs, insurance costs, everything goes up, it's system that generates money from stupid people who shouldn't be allowed to operate a key let alone the machine it turns on!!!
If you want to kill yourself....go ahead, but please don't do it in a way that will effect my life....thanks.
Click to expand...

You can't fix stupid. Whether they're on a 250 or a 1,000 cc bike, they'll still put themselves and others at risk. It's the individual that can be dangerous, not the bike. All you can do is be vigilant and drive defensively. You can't make the majority pay for the mistakes of the few - otherwise we'll be left with nothing.
 
Last edited:
promac said:
You can't fix stupid. Whether they're on a 250 or a 1,000 cc bike, they'll still put themselves and others at risk. It's the individual that can be dangerous, not the bike. All you can do is be vigilant and drive defensively. You can't make the majority pay for the mistakes of the few - otherwise we'll be left with nothing.
Click to expand...

Where I would disagree, having power limits on the beginner licenses may have an impact on discouraging many of the idiots from riding in the first place.
 
backmarkerducati said:
I remember reading in some jurisdictions they have a 33 HP (or some other number) limit for new riders. This seems very logical to me. M1 and M2 could have the 33 HP limit. This limit gets easier and easier to implement since new bikes are increasingly becoming throttle by wire, this is just a simple ECU program (this will allow the new riders to pose...). CC limits are a little silly since a 600 SS usually makes way more power than a 1200 cruiser.

To get the full M they should mandate the riders have their own bike (take the test on their bike) AND have two years of insured riding experience. This is no guarantee that the bike ever left the garage but it will help discourage riders from going with no insurance and at least we know they own a bike. No two years of insured riding (as the primary rider) no taking the exit test.

Simple answers are usually the best...
Click to expand...

When I began riding in Ireland in the mid 90's I was restricted to a 125cc as I was under 25 at the time. There was also the 33hp limit. Once I either turned 25 or was fully licensed for 3 years the restrictions were limited. As a beginner I didn't find it to be a problem, I still travelled the highways at 75mph (wringing the guts out of my GS125), still went on long rides through the Wicklow mountains for hours on end etc. It can be done, and 99% of the time I never thought the bike lacked power.

The UK also has the 33hp limit, but riders are allowed to restrict their bikes for the duration of the term, and the testing is far more rigorous and comprehensive, not to mention expensive. I find it odd that the countries with the restrictions in place i.e. most of Europe, are also the countries where racing is a much bigger part of the culture (track racing, not 2 idiots on a highway). It would seem to be at odds with the ultimate use of a bike, but perhaps they better understand the need for proper progression in the riding environment?

Alan

P.S. I would not be against a restriction based on power/weight ratios, but implementing and monitoring such a system would be a nightmare...
Forum Sponsor
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom