In just one hour, 10 out of 12 in the pack busted for street racing.

[mmmnaked]

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i can't remember the last time i saw an airplane explode while refuelling at the airport. i rarely see it happen, and its even more rare that it ends in an explosion. because of this, airport ground crew no longer needs to ground the airplanes of any static electricity.

sounds ridiculous right? we rarely see speed demons on the road because most people have a brain and know the consequences (or just too scared to go fast). the select few think it's ok to break the law and should be punished accordingly. yea, high speed crashes rarely happen, until it does. would you still sing the same tune if it happened to you?

You're comparing a procedural requirement in the airline industry to..... speeding motorcycles? Excellent analogy, almost as good as the guy who keeps yelping about his neighbour waving guns around on the street.

My point (since it obviously sailed over your head) was that we already have laws in place which deter people from behaving recklessly in their vehicles. The problem of "racing" is not widespread enough to warrant even more legislation than what we already have. Racing is statistically insignificant, and we have laws in place which penalize drivers for all sorts of road infractions, including speed and racing. In fact, there's even a criminal charge of dangerous driving which can be slapped on you for behaving badly on roadways; what more do we want? Do we wanna give cops the right to shoot us on the spot for speeding? Or maybe take our houses and firstborns away?

 

[turbodish]

In fact, there's even a criminal charge of dangerous driving which can be slapped on you for behaving badly on roadways; what more do we want? Do we wanna give cops the right to shoot us on the spot for speeding? Or maybe take our houses and firstborns away?

No need to shoot or take away houses and children. After all, as you say we already have laws to deal with it. Taking away someone's wheels for a few days and fining them big $$$$ should be sufficient.

 

[mmmnaked]

Taking away someone's wheels for a few days and fining them big $$$$ should be sufficient.

It's more than sufficient; it's already excessive because its an administrative thing that doesn't have to hold up in a court of law. Someone already posted that a third of HTA172 infractions are dropped in court and another third are lowered down to something more minor; but those folks don't get reimbursed for their week of impoundment and loss of licence roadside.

But that's beside the point; we're talking about permanent seizure and loss of property.

 

[turbodish]

It's more than sufficient; it's already excessive because its an administrative thing that doesn't have to hold up in a court of law. Someone already posted that a third of HTA172 infractions are dropped in court and another third are lowered down to something more minor; but those folks don't get reimbursed for their week of impoundment and loss of licence roadside.

But that's beside the point; we're talking about permanent seizure and loss of property.

The actual number at the beginning was 4 out of 5 conviction rate, including many plea bargains to lesser charges of speeding. A plea bargain to a lesser charge at the behest of the defence is hardly an indication that the original charge was not valid - it's just a way to help quickly clear the court docket list while that ensuring the offending driver is still held to a measure of account.

Of the remainder, less than 20%, there were some outright acquittals (including several because the JP did not understand the new legal definition of racing/stunting), a number stayed charges on 11b grounds, and several charges withdrawn because of officer not available to testify due to illness, retirement, called to emergency duty, and at least one who was stationed in Afghanistan when the trial was to be held. A number were also stayed as a result of trials delayed while constitutional challenges were dealt with by the Court of Appeal. That's hardly an indication of factual innocence.

PERMANENT seizure of property doesn't happen except as a result of a full civil forfeiture application to the courts, at which both owner and the government can make their cases as to why the application should or should not be granted. The judge then decides based on the merits.

 

[mmmnaked]

The actual number at the beginning was 4 out of 5 conviction rate, including many plea bargains to lesser charges of speeding. A plea bargain to a lesser charge at the behest of the defence is hardly an indication that the original charge was not valid - it's just a way to help quickly clear the court docket list while that ensuring the offending driver is still held to a measure of account.

Of the remainder, less than 20%, there were some outright acquittals (including several because the JP did not understand the new legal definition of racing/stunting), a number stayed charges on 11b grounds, and several charges withdrawn because of officer not available to testify due to illness, retirement, called to emergency duty, and at least one who was stationed in Afghanistan when the trial was to be held. A number were also stayed as a result of trials delayed while constitutional challenges were dealt with by the Court of Appeal. That's hardly an indication of factual innocence.

I'm not about to argue the factual innocence of a bunch of cases neither of us are at all familiar with. Nor do I know for a fact what the current conviction rate is (4/5 in the beginning? what beginning? how long?)

The point remains that the charge carries an immediate sentence without any due process. But we've argued this before and it's really not the topic of this thread.

 

[油井緋色]

Less power to cops the better it is. I've had 3 encounters with cops, all 3 were a waste of my time:

#1. Finished gym at 3 in the morning, cop followed me, would NOT tell me why he pulled me over and let me go after.
#2. Old manager was a *****, told her I hoped she got cancer and died (which she did 6 months after, a coworker called me to inform me after I got fired and thanked me for voodoo magix). She filed a report that I sent a death threat to her, and another snitch in the store decided to make a story about me having a gun. Needless to say, cops wasted my time, and scared the **** out of my parents. I talked to a couple lawyers and there wasn't really much I could do unless I wanted to spend a lot of $$$. In other words, next time you want to get somebody in ****, just tell the cops there are rumors that he/she has a gun.
#3. Pulled over 2 days ago, I gave the cop attitude and he decided to search me.

Cops are all *** holes. They waste time on this **** rather than dealing with things that actually matter: such as my frd's cousin getting stabbed in the back of the head years ago. There was another time where my friends got chased from some place to a cop station and cops still did nothing. One of my friends had a big mouth, big deal, doesn't mean he deserves to get a bottle opened on his head and sent to the hospital.

Again, the less power we give to cops, the better it is, but seeing as how most of you supported the HTA....-__________-

 

[short stop]

Less power to cops the better it is. I've had 3 encounters with cops, all 3 were a waste of my time:

#1. Finished gym at 3 in the morning, cop followed me, would NOT tell me why he pulled me over and let me go after.
#2. Old manager was a *****, told her I hoped she got cancer and died (which she did 6 months after, a coworker called me to inform me after I got fired and thanked me for voodoo magix). She filed a report that I sent a death threat to her, and another snitch in the store decided to make a story about me having a gun. Needless to say, cops wasted my time, and scared the **** out of my parents. I talked to a couple lawyers and there wasn't really much I could do unless I wanted to spend a lot of $$$. In other words, next time you want to get somebody in ****, just tell the cops there are rumors that he/she has a gun.
#3. Pulled over 2 days ago, I gave the cop attitude and he decided to search me.

Cops are all *** holes. They waste time on this **** rather than dealing with things that actually matter: such as my frd's cousin getting stabbed in the back of the head years ago. There was another time where my friends got chased from some place to a cop station and cops still did nothing. One of my friends had a big mouth, big deal, doesn't mean he deserves to get a bottle opened on his head and sent to the hospital.

Again, the less power we give to cops, the better it is, but seeing as how most of you supported the HTA....-__________-

Wow. I have no idea what your post has to do with the OP. But otherwise, wow. I have absolutely no idea why you'd have such negative encounters with law enforcement.

 

[油井緋色]

Wow. I have no idea what your post has to do with the OP. But otherwise, wow. I have absolutely no idea why you'd have such negative encounters with law enforcement.

Read through most of the posts, topic seems to have gone in relation to whether or not the HTA is necessary. I'm simply saying no because the more power somebody has, the more chances of them abusing said power. Not to mention I had a friend with a riced up 350Z that broke down on him one day. While waiting for a tow truck, a cop came along and started yelling at him for racing with no proof of it at all; I was in his car, we were doing 60 in a 50 zone. Cop didn't do anything, seems like he just wanted to give my frd a hard time.

Mind you, I've had no tickets or done anything unlawful that would attract the attention of police in my entire life. I don't even drink above the limit and refuse to drink while riding. That doesn't mean that it didn't occur to me that if a cop wants to waste your time they WILL waste your time and you can do nothing about it.

And I'm probably just venting about my encounter the other day, needed to vent somewhere and didn't want to create a new topic; thanks for reading.

 

[mmmnaked]

Read through most of the posts, topic seems to have gone in relation to whether or not the HTA is necessary.

No the topic has generally been about permanent seizure of vehicles which is possible in BC.

 

[Dohhh]

Put em all to death, no trial! What if a 2 year old baby was crossing the street? These hooligans would have killed them...jesus christ, what is wrong with some people?

 

[油井緋色]

No the topic has generally been about permanent seizure of vehicles which is possible in BC.

And that the HTA violates the charter?

Sure as hell seems like it violates it. Need more lawyer friends.

EDIT: I thought HTA was directly related to vehicles getting impounded?

 

[mmmnaked]

HTA172 results in your vehicle being impounded for 7 days.

We're talking about the guys in the original video potentially having their bikes seized by the government and auctioned off, something apparently possible in BC.

Yes, HTA172 is unjust.. but at least you get your vehicle back after a week. Now imagine if it was seized and sold off at auction.

 

[turbodish]

No the topic has generally been about permanent seizure of vehicles which is possible in BC.

HTA172 results in your vehicle being impounded for 7 days.

We're talking about the guys in the original video potentially having their bikes seized by the government and auctioned off, something apparently possible in BC.

Yes, HTA172 is unjust.. but at least you get your vehicle back after a week. Now imagine if it was seized and sold off at auction.

It's also possible to lose your bike permanently in Ontario with forfeiture possible under the Ontario Civil Remedies Act. However, it requires a full hearing in front of a judge, and BC is no different. It will be up to a court to decide if the bikes are permanently seized.

 

[SkyRider]

It's also possible to lose your bike permanently in Ontario with forfeiture possible under the Ontario Civil Remedies Act. However, it requires a full hearing in front of a judge, and BC is no different. It will be up to a court to decide if the bikes are permanently seized.

this post should shut all the anti government peeps up for a little while lol.

 

[overlordjd]

You're comparing a procedural requirement in the airline industry to..... speeding motorcycles? Excellent analogy, almost as good as the guy who keeps yelping about his neighbour waving guns around on the street.

My point (since it obviously sailed over your head) was that we already have laws in place which deter people from behaving recklessly in their vehicles. The problem of "racing" is not widespread enough to warrant even more legislation than what we already have. Racing is statistically insignificant, and we have laws in place which penalize drivers for all sorts of road infractions, including speed and racing. In fact, there's even a criminal charge of dangerous driving which can be slapped on you for behaving badly on roadways; what more do we want? Do we wanna give cops the right to shoot us on the spot for speeding? Or maybe take our houses and firstborns away?

It seems that you are the only one who truely gets what the argument is about. The point is, how much power do you want to give the cop to determine what punishment you should have? it's bad enough they can come up with some bulls@*t charge and not really have to prove it cause their word is it unless you have pretty much video evidence that states otherwise. Now some of you want to condone taking someone's property because they were speeding? Let me know if you will be singing the same tune if they lower that point to 40Km over of 30 or even 20km. It is bad enough that the vehicle doesn't even have to belong to the person operating it so in essence, it is the owner who is being punnished.

As stated, there are tones of laws already on the books to deal with certain behavior on the road.

 

[Dohhh]

It's also possible to lose your bike permanently in Ontario with forfeiture possible under the Ontario Civil Remedies Act. However, it requires a full hearing in front of a judge, and BC is no different. It will be up to a court to decide if the bikes are permanently seized.

how about instead of seizing motorcycles, next time a corrupt cop comes along (1 a week average in this city) we seize EVERYTHING they own...

 

[AGAVE]

how about instead of seizing motorcycles, next time a corrupt cop comes along (1 a week average in this city) we seize EVERYTHING they own...

The biggest gang in the world doesn't have to follow their own rules.

Now get back in line before i make an example out of you too buddy!

 

[mmmnaked]

this post should shut all the anti government peeps up for a little while lol.

We're not anti-government, we're pro-liberties.

Maybe you don't value the time and money that went into purchasing your motorcycle or car, but some of us cherish that and don't wish to give our government the power to take it away from us. It's really rather simple. Yes, the answer might be "well just don't go 50 over." Sure, that works today, but perhaps in 10 years another shmuck will come to power and have the brilliant idea of lowering that criteria to 40 over, or perhaps eventually 20 over or 2km/h over. Not only have we given 'them' the power to impound our vehicles and revoke our licences for a week without any due process, they already have the power to seize our vehicles permanently if the courts decide.

If we were all a little less narrow-minded and a little more mindful of the bigger picture, things like HTA172 would never pass. But no, we're too dumb to see it coming until its already too late. Such legislation gets pushed through the media and onto the public as a "public safety" initiative meant to eliminate street racing. A little documentary here and there about organized street races, a few clips from Fast & Furious movies, and presto... Joe Public is on-board. Except after the law is passed folks realize that it had nothing at all to do with street racing and everything to do with catching 'excessive' speeders going 50kmh over the limit. But we already HAD legislation in place to deal with such speeds which resulted in a summons to appear in court and be dealt the appropriate sentence by the justice of the peace. So now in addition to having to go to court for our reaming, we also get to pad the pockets of the police, the tow companies, the impound lots, and the administrative gang in charge of all the beaurocracy in between. Nevermind the fact that you might very well be completely INNOCENT the entire time but won't ever see that money back.

Why do we continually screw ourselves? I just don't get it. Your attitude sucks if all you can come up with is "that should shut the anti-government people up." I'm not anti-anything. I'm just a sensible person.

 

[SkyRider]

Yes, the answer might be "well just don't go 50 over." Sure, that works today, but perhaps in 10 years another shmuck will come to power and have the brilliant idea of lowering that criteria to 40 over, or perhaps eventually 20 over or 2km/h over.

lol lighten up. so... i can't use the "hypothetical neighbour with the gun example", but you can use the "hypothetical power hungry politician example"

well done sir well done.

 

[mmmnaked]

lol lighten up. so... i can't use the "hypothetical neighbour with the gun example", but you can use the "hypothetical power hungry politician example"

well done sir well done.

Its not hypothetical when it already happened.

Sigh.

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