My old dog was never on a leash. Would walk a few feet in front of me, and stop to wait for me to catch up at intersections. I'd tell her "cross". She'd look both ways, then cross the street. She was smarter than 68.3% of the pedestrians in Toronto.
Zombie law coming?
- Thread starter Joe Bass
- Start date
conundrum
Well-known member
I still wonder how people could be that dumb to walk into the side of an emergency vehicle with lights and siren, especially something as bright and larger as a fire truck...but I digress.
Honestly with how bad city drivers are these days for similar reasons (phones), looking before you cross isn't even enough...you need to keep looking at all lanes that could cross your path (including turning vehicles). I've had a few close calls walking across intersections where someone either blew a red or decided to turn left while I was a few inches away. Almost punched/kicked their vehicles in a few cases...
Also not just cars either....Just last week I was in a group crossing a few seconds after we had green/walk, when a cyclist decided to blow a red, and cut right through the group of us at full speed too.
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He wasn't thinking. He had an almost instinctive reaction to seeing the truck swing left in from the left hand lane and assumed it was going to turn onto the cross street so went back to his distraction.
We're all stupid some times. Take this thread for example. How does the risk of a fine force people to pay attention in situations where they're already at risk of losing their lives? It's an absurd proposal for those who think about it but for many here it's just an instinctive reaction to their perceived unjust experience driving around and having to make way for pedestrians.
There's something like a mass psychosis affecting people when it comes to driving. As another example, take Brian P's suggestion to blame every pedestrian collision on the pedestrian if they were on their phones. Never mind the right of way rules that have always worked well forever. Maybe he misspoke, but taken literally it means he'd blame a pedestrian for getting hit by a red light runner if the pedestrian were on the phone. It's ridiculous.
A third example of the insanity, just from this thread alone.
I walk and cycle, making me a car hater? So you obviously walked at least once, you must be a car hater too.
People just plain aren't thinking, this is a purely emotive response, no smarter than that guy who walked into the fire truck with sirens blaring.
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You're confusing pedestrian right of way with the right to wander around in the road while performing electronic masturbation.
The MPP is Baker who represents Auntie Kathy in my riding. I appreciate his recognition of the problem but he's pissing into the wind on this.
http://time.com/4996379/honolulu-phone-street-texting-zombie-law-fines/
Other jurisdictions have passed laws but IIRC New York City has backed down on enforcement due to public backlash.
A city on China has separate walking lanes for phone users and non users.
LED strips to guide the down lookers?
Back to common sense, Granny, with her walker, leaves the curb as soon as she gets a "Walk" signal and gets 1/3 of the way across before it becomes a "Don't Walk". Usain Bolt would be breaking even the present law if he stepped off the curb at that time but granny is OK even though she blocks traffic for a light sequence.
Personally, I go if the light is green because I can power walk across before a light turns red. I tend to ignore the "Walk / Don't Walk" signals unless there is a badge showing somewhere. I allow for vehicular traffic where it makes sense. I'll wave a vehicle through a right on red if it expedites traffic / pedestrian flow. It's a judgement call.
It's a weird thought but has anyone ever thought of rewarding the good instead of punishing the bad? Sort of like credit card reward points. A cop sees you make a proper turn or stop, types your plate number into the system, hits the attaboy key and you get a buck off your plate renewal fee.
http://time.com/4996379/honolulu-phone-street-texting-zombie-law-fines/
Other jurisdictions have passed laws but IIRC New York City has backed down on enforcement due to public backlash.
A city on China has separate walking lanes for phone users and non users.
LED strips to guide the down lookers?
Back to common sense, Granny, with her walker, leaves the curb as soon as she gets a "Walk" signal and gets 1/3 of the way across before it becomes a "Don't Walk". Usain Bolt would be breaking even the present law if he stepped off the curb at that time but granny is OK even though she blocks traffic for a light sequence.
Personally, I go if the light is green because I can power walk across before a light turns red. I tend to ignore the "Walk / Don't Walk" signals unless there is a badge showing somewhere. I allow for vehicular traffic where it makes sense. I'll wave a vehicle through a right on red if it expedites traffic / pedestrian flow. It's a judgement call.
It's a weird thought but has anyone ever thought of rewarding the good instead of punishing the bad? Sort of like credit card reward points. A cop sees you make a proper turn or stop, types your plate number into the system, hits the attaboy key and you get a buck off your plate renewal fee.
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But how does that give Aunt Kathy more money to waste?
I hate it when you point out the obvious.
PLau
Well-known member
I think you answered your own question on the previous page.
And no. Never did that.
Stupidest thing I've experienced (didn't do) was walking home with an older (~3yrs) friend that tried convincing me that crossing the street (in a low traffic residential area) without looking was "cool". I chickened out and ended up looking because I thought it was a stupid idea and didn't want to get run over - I was 11 at the time.
These were the days of the good ol' walkman being the latest and greatest affordable music player - I'm not that old.
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BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
Personally, I believe texting/phone/etc and driving should carry the same level of fine as DWI. But, that will never happen due to the backlash that it would cause. People know it's wrong, but they're just not going to give up that "right" without a fight.
I don't think we need another law. All we need to do is make sure that right of way is properly assigned in the event of a collision and not (seemingly) automatically assuming that the car driver is at fault, and then let Darwin take its course. The odd public service announcement isn't a bad idea.
Pedestrian hit while crossing against a red light and car had a green? Pedestrian's fault. Pedestrian hit by a car crossing against a red light? Driver's fault. Bicyclist hit because they entered an intersection while riding on the sidewalk / pedestrian crossing? Bicyclist's fault. Pedestrian hit because they walked into the path of the rear wheels of a large truck or bus after the front of the truck or bus had already entered the intersection (it has happened)? Pedestrian's fault. And so forth.
There will of course be situations where it isn't known who had the green or red light. Insufficient evidence? Don't convict.
More and more intersections are getting cameras. At the intersection of Mississauga Road and Mayfield Road (which is currently in the midst of a construction zone), there is a camera next to the traffic signal in all four directions.
Pedestrian hit while crossing against a red light and car had a green? Pedestrian's fault. Pedestrian hit by a car crossing against a red light? Driver's fault. Bicyclist hit because they entered an intersection while riding on the sidewalk / pedestrian crossing? Bicyclist's fault. Pedestrian hit because they walked into the path of the rear wheels of a large truck or bus after the front of the truck or bus had already entered the intersection (it has happened)? Pedestrian's fault. And so forth.
There will of course be situations where it isn't known who had the green or red light. Insufficient evidence? Don't convict.
More and more intersections are getting cameras. At the intersection of Mississauga Road and Mayfield Road (which is currently in the midst of a construction zone), there is a camera next to the traffic signal in all four directions.
Yep, IIRC as part of the push for zero traffic fatalities, NYC cops started ticketing bicyclists and pedestrians for violations as they saw them. There was huge backlash ... evidently the public seems to think that pedestrians and bicyclists should be immune from traffic laws. Laws and enforcement are fine as long as they only affect someone else. It's always someone else that's breaking the law. Right ...
Redlight cameras or general cameras that are recording everything?
Chewed gum. Today walking while chewing gum is a lost skill for many.
Legislating common sense doesn't make sense when existing laws, properly applied, could achieve almost the same results.
Regarding pedestrian responsibility, who picks up the tab for the couple of thousand for a smashed front grill and bodywork?
What car driver wants to see a person smashed on the front of his / her car?
There was a case in Montreal a few years back where a woman was suing the estate of the jaywalker that was killed when she walked into the path of the plaintiff's car. The estate wasn't worth much and there were accusations about the driver being heartless etc but no one looked at the driver's financial situation.
Why do people assume every driver has endless funds to cover the errors of others?
Not red-light cameras - or at least, not what we've seen thus far. They're on the same pole as the traffic signal, approximately facing oncoming traffic in each of the 4 directions. It looks like a normal camera housing. Red-light cameras face the rear of vehicles coming towards the intersection and are mounted on their own pole and with a much bigger enclosure and every case I've seen, are only on one approach to the intersection (despite being signed on all approaches).
sburns
Well-known member
I think the zombie law is an interesting idea. But I doubt will make any difference as we live in what is becoming a more selfish society, me me. It would be less of an issue if people were more considerate. How many people actually get fined with jay walking, and I am sure our law enforcement has plenty more to deal with then stupid people. Maybe some public service messages to help create awareness instead of punishing people might go further. I am not a coddler type person but something has to change.
It also doesn't help that Toronto is dividing up the same limited infrastructure into car, bus, bike, and people space, which I am sure is causing commuter frustration when you can't get anywhere quickly. Also adding to lack of patience for other commuters. Toronto should be adding infrastructure for bus's and bikes separate from cars etc.
It also doesn't help that Toronto is dividing up the same limited infrastructure into car, bus, bike, and people space, which I am sure is causing commuter frustration when you can't get anywhere quickly. Also adding to lack of patience for other commuters. Toronto should be adding infrastructure for bus's and bikes separate from cars etc.
Oh they are. Royal York Rd has been one lane for a long time. Eastern Avenue as well. Lately, Woodbine has been converted to a bizarre one lane arrangement, and it hasn't been that long since they piled in all that extra housing. The problem at the moment is that the load is increasing, the infrastructure is being cut, and there's nothing being created to fill the gap.
100% agree with you here. Had an interesting exchange with some people on Reddit/Toronto regarding this issue and these guys hate the car with a passion and basically the conversation went "doesn't matter if pedestrian / cyclist gets into the right of way of the car, the driver MUST be 100% aware and be fully responsible for hitting anyone" I couldn't believe the ******** they were spewing. I gave up.
Anyway this law won't make much difference, same as the laws for texting and driving haven't seen much traction either. "It won't happen to me" is the attitude and the almighty "I'm more important than all of you" will always win out.
