Your thoughts on minimum wage

[nobbie48]

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Already prices are increasing everywhere in the GTA. Go to any food court and I bet you going to be paying close to $10 for a small lunch.

When I was in school back in 1995, I paid around $5 bucks for lunch.

When we were in Arkansas a week back groceries were about the same as here but a full buffet with salad bar, chicken, pasta, meatballs, pork tenderloin and veggies was $9.99, all you can eat.

One area to think about the unforeseen consequences of a higher minimum wage is child care. Child care workers (daycare) tend to be working for close to--a little above minimum wage. If you raise the wages the costs go up. Even if they make $15 today, raise min wage to $15 and now you have to jump all of them up as well (maybe not to 20 but say 18 or 19) to keep them.

Now you have the working poor getting maybe a few dollars more per hour but their childcare costs will spike. In many cases they will not be any better off, in some cases it may mean they cannot work.

As far as fast food etc. I think some costs will be passed on but it may not result in say a near 50% increase since wages are not the only input cost. For daycare, wages are a much bigger percentage of the costs so the prices will spike. There are many other small business cases where wages are a big portion of cost and here is where you will see the big negative impacts (child care is just one example).

It is one of those things that sounds good from a social perspective but may actual hurt the working poor if not well thought out.

For big corps, it just means some shuffling, higher prices, maybe fewer workers. The big impact is small business where wages are a big input cost, here we will see the biggest price increases and/or job losses. Specially with a drastic change like a jump to $15.

Borrowing from my other post, paying the people who look after your kids the minimum wage to save money so you can go watch millionaires play ball. Fade to Harry Chapin and The Cat's in the Cradle....https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=...=DuphkC40o5nZqct-yQ8t6A&bvm=bv.75097201,d.aWw

 

[jc100]

Minimum wage discussions aren't all that much of a social issue when it just applies to McJobs. The big problem we have in Canada is that now a McJob...is a job. Has nobody noticed the number of middle aged people in minimum wage jobs has increased? Severe UNDEREMPLOYMENT is why the minimum wage needs to be reassessed.

 

[Boots]

And homeless shelters have been around for how long now...
see, the system is working by design.
Government uses it as reason to claw in more taxes from everyone and the corps blame the Government.

I gotta hear this. What's your definition of "working"?

 

[suzuki2000]

Bar Stool Economics
.....

+1 Bravo sir.

 

[inreb]

+1 Bravo sir.

It's a fun read and if it were all about taxes, fine. The way our society is structured it's not all about the taxes. It's about using any weapon and all your available power to get ahead. Trying to rig every scenario in your companys' favour to max profit, forget any other consequence. Raw human nature. They'll put dirt in your food if it'll bolster the bottom line. It will.

 

[crankcall]

+1 Bravo sir.

I too agree with the barstool economics model, and the reality of it is those with enough income to take advantage of tax savings to the maximum are usually those that have LOTS of income. The minimum wage could go to $20 and those in that zone with housing/mortgage/kids/transport would still have a tough time. And if predicted it raises the bar on basic service costs, they still suffer.

 

[nobbie48]

Minimum wage discussions aren't all that much of a social issue when it just applies to McJobs. The big problem we have in Canada is that now a McJob...is a job. Has nobody noticed the number of middle aged people in minimum wage jobs has increased? Severe UNDEREMPLOYMENT is why the minimum wage needs to be reassessed.

Problem 1: Age discrimination. Why hire a boy when you can get a man for the same price?

Problem 2: Unless we go back to picks and shovels, hand wrenching etc the labour content per item drops = fewer workers needed per item. We have to address what we are going to do with excess labour. In the 1950's 5% unemployment was considered obscene. Now it's a goal.

 

[RockerGuy]

Will follow up on this later

 

[Schneller]

Will follow up on this later

Tease!

 

[mmmnaked]

Minimum wage, adjusted for inflation throughout the years, has been the same since 1975. Raising it now is not a solution to anything.

The difference between then and now is that people have become massive consumer whores, and real jobs have been exported in exchange for cheap ****.

The share of Ontario workers in minimum wage jobs has doubled from 2003 to 2011. The share of men and women between the ages of 25 and 54 working min. wage jobs has also doubled in that same period. These people don't need a higher minimum wage, they need better jobs.

 

[Scuba Steve]

But we need our cheap imported consumer goods.

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[caboose56]

A higher minimum wage doesn't work with free trade.


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[Boots]

I don't think people understand that when you raise the minimum wage and prices go up on things, it's only partially because there is more money needed to pay the employee. The rest is pocketed and hoarded by the employer. In which case you should not be blaming the victim of unfair pay, you should blame the employer who is greedy. Am I saying the employer and employee should be getting paid the same wage? Probably not; but when you have, say for argument's sake, a walmart employee making probably under 20,000 a year and the owner of the company making THIRTY FIVE MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR. Yeah, I'd say that he's living a life of unjustified excess. The former are working daily for basic human needs and in some cases are below the poverty line, the latter is merely a figurehead in a system of labor that practically runs itself (ie: he doesn't have much to do but call the shots) -- Does this warrant a 35 million per year difference in salary between the employee and the employer? I would argue no.

And if we simply stand back, and ignore the issue, and say "oh this is just the way the world works", just because you're fortunate to even do so then I'd merely call you a psychopath. Because it truly takes an unforgiving, insensitive person to look at unfortunate that goes on in the world and shrug your shoulders as if it is something that's "normal". Some of you just dismiss the idea of a higher minimum wage as if it's not important without even entertaining the idea in the slightest. Congratulations it must be sweet being as open minded as some of you.

 

[raginduck]

I'm pretty sure the owner(s) of walmart make a hell of lot more than $35mil a year...

 

[inreb]

Ideally, the relationship between employer and employee should be a mutually beneficial partnership. Everybody knows a business can't survive without boots on the ground but, unfortunately, for workers it's a buyers market. We've all seen buyers take advantage at a distress sale. 10 cents on the dollar? No, I give you 5 cents and you'll like it. That's how workers are treated today if the company has the upper hand. Don't expect a cheery hello in the morning.

 

[Boots]

I'm pretty sure the owner(s) of walmart make a hell of lot more than $35mil a year...

Probably does now. A story done in 2009-2010 showed him making 35 mil which translated to 17k per hour. Regardless, the number is asinine and totally unjustified.

The following isn't directed towards you, raginduck. It's just a rant. Read on if you want but don't think I'm directing this to you.

People will say "oh he worked hard to get there he deserves that pay" and to that I would ask who works harder on a fundamental level ? The one barely hanging on to basic necessities working a job that pays **** all 5 days a week (sometimes two jobs) , or the one who was most likely born into money and preys off of the free market by exploiting workers and probably sits back in a chair and does nothing but try to get even more wealthy than they already are?

One of my TA's in university when we were studying Marx showed the similarities between this attitude and cancer. The idea of growth for the sake of growth. People who just pocket money and hope for a very low minimum wage are identical to cancer in that they want to grow just to grow or gain money for the sake of getting money. Trickle down theory? Yeah that **** has been debated and practically debunked for ages now. There is no Trickle down, only hoarding. And if you think Mr. 35 million can't spare any of that money to his employees so they could live a decent life, then I don't know what to say about you.

 

[RockerGuy]

Ok, here is my input. A higher minimum wage means higher production costs. We often hear Walmart exporting jobs to China, well that's because nobody here wants to do it for $4/h. In China that is a reasonable rate of pay. Increasing wage will only make jobs disappear, especially in the manufacturing sector.

Another point I'd like to bring up is raising minimum wage stiffles competition, ie instead of trying to get out of the hellhole they want it served to them. No competition means people are not willing to be innovative & bring new ideas

Edit: another thing I'd like to add. Lots of people like to look at CEOs & think how nice it must be to get laid that much, but have they considered how hard they work to get there?


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[eljay]

3 mistakes or oversites:
1. Supply and demand sets the price of anything (including the cost of an hour of labor). Anything else is a distortion.
2. Corporations are owned by shareholders, one of which is most likely you if you earn a legal wage in Canada (if you pay into CPP you own a piece of more than you can imagine).
3. Millions must die (mostly poor people) if you want to change the above two facts. Proof by history.
QED

 

[Boots]

No, I give you 5 cents and you'll like it. That's how workers are treated today if the company has the upper hand. Don't expect a cheery hello in the morning.

This is understandable, again as I said I'm not trying to say the employer and employee should be getting the same salary. I'm merely pointing out the discomforting issue of individuals working their ass off daily only to fall under the poverty line because employers are not willing to share their MASSIVE life of excess due to their greed.

Like it's not like we're comparing 20grand (employee) to 40 grand (employer) . We're comparing a 5 digit salary to an 8 digit salary (in the most extreme of cases).

 

[Boots]

3 mistakes or oversites:
1. Supply and demand sets the price of anything (including the cost of an hour of labor). Anything else is a distortion.
2. Corporations are owned by shareholders, one of which is most likely you if you earn a legal wage in Canada (if you pay into CPP you own a piece of more than you can imagine).
3. Millions must die (mostly poor people) if you want to change the above two facts. Proof by history.
QED

Sure, then again I'm not creating an economic system here. Just using a basic system. If I were to take into consideration every possibility or variable, I would be here for ages.

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