Wisecracks in an OCJ decision wrt FOTL

[EOL]

I was thinking about something riding into work today. If you only have to signal if other people are around, then how did the guy get off that ticket? If he got the ticket then the cops were around to see it, therefore he had to legally signal right?

The section in the HTA does not refer to other people being around, but to "affecting" the movement of other vehicles. This is a big difference in my mind...

142. (1) The driver or operator of a vehicle upon a highway before turning to the left or right at any intersection or into a private road or driveway or from one lane for traffic to another lane for traffic or to leave the roadway shall first see that the movement can be made in safety, and if the operation of any other vehicle may be affected by the movement shall give a signal plainly visible to the driver or operator of the other vehicle of the intention to make the movement. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 142 (1) [emphasis added]

 

[imnothng]

The section in the HTA does not refer to other people being around, but to "affecting" the movement of other vehicles. This is a big difference in my mind...

142. (1) The driver or operator of a vehicle upon a highway before turning to the left or right at any intersection or into a private road or driveway or from one lane for traffic to another lane for traffic or to leave the roadway shall first see that the movement can be made in safety, and if the operation of any other vehicle may be affected by the movement shall give a signal plainly visible to the driver or operator of the other vehicle of the intention to make the movement. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 142 (1) [emphasis added]

I think I get what you're saying, but I disagree. If someone else is around in any direction, then any movement you do COULD affect them, and therefore you would be required to signal your intentions.

 

[EOL]

I think I get what you're saying, but I disagree. If someone else is around in any direction, then any movement you do COULD affect them, and therefore you would be required to signal your intentions.

I understand your comment and agree that any action "could" affect another vehicle on the road in theory however; if you fail to signal with another vehicle on the road and your actions do not actually materially affect the other vehicle then I would argue you are safe under the HTA. This statement is based upon my interpretation of what the judge wrote:

"On the evidence led and articulated before me in Mr. Duncan’s trial, there is absolutely no basis for me to conclude that the operation of any other vehicle might have been affected by Mr. Duncan’s allegedly un-signalled turn. Neither officer adverted to any impact on them by the alleged failure to signal. Neither did they refer to any other vehicle being affected by it."

The officers obviously saw Mr. Duncan fail to signal however; "Neither officer adverted to any impact on them by the alleged failure to signal." This says to me there needs to be a real affect on the other vehicles present ie: braking to avoid, divergence from path, acceleration to avoid, etc...


Lets make up a scenario:

Vehicle A is traveling eastbound at 50km/h in a 50km/hr zone on a 2 lane road. Vehicle A intends to turn into a driveway on the right hand side of the road 150 meters ahead

Vehicle B is traveling westbound at 50km/h on the same road and is 700m from Vehicle A or 550m from the driveway

Assumptions:
- Both vehicles maintain there rates of speed
- Vehicle A can make the turn into the driveway at 50km/h
- the road is flat and the air is clear allowing both vehicles to have perfect visibility of one another throughout the entire scenario
- Vehicles drive on the right side of the road

When Vehicle A turns into the driveway Vehicle B will be 400m from the same drive way and will not be materially affected by Vehicle A's movements and therefore Vehicle A under the HTA would not be required to signal its turn. In my opinion of course.

Starting points for the scenario:

Vehicle A <---150m---> Driveway <---------------550m--------------> Vehicle B